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Blues & twos

scholar007

Is there a particular time of evening/night after which it is not recommended to use the sirens?

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mcgarrett

When passing the Chiefs house between 11pm and 8am.

wreckless

responding at different times of the day would require either or and maybe one or the other .ie at 2am driving down a street or into an estate, why have sirens on? going have no effect other than wake the whole neighbourhood

they are only used to alert other road users to your presence and not "get off the road or out of the way" devices. its courtesy that other road user let you pass or assist your progression at speed to an incident

driving into a field or farm with animals and livestock etc. e.g horses, they can and do get very startled by them, also at mental homes or homes for the elderly etc. strobe lights can do more harm than good! :eek:

the driver is the person who controls them as they are fully responsible for the vehicle enroute. once at an incident, the OIC will assume control

Mycroft H

Certain medical emergencies you would not use sirens or even lights

scholar007

BX 19 wrote: »

Certain medical emergencies you would not use sirens or even lights

I was told (years ago) that the siren (when it was neee naaw, neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw, neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw, neee naaw, - sorry getting carried away) are not to be used after 11pm.

What are the certain medical emergencies for which you would not use sirens or even lights?

searescue

Always use the saying "Only use them if you need to use them".

If I'm ever going to a shout I may switch them on but if I have a clear run with a steady, handy speed turn them off - no point in hurrying - only panics people and makes the odd few do stupid things.

Bang Bang

scholar007 wrote: »

What are the certain medical emergencies for which you would not use sirens or even lights?

There's a Medical Priority Despatch System in place now, this system grades your call and level of response. It is quite an extensive list of illness' and injuries.
What may appear to be an 'Emergency' by a lay person may actually be far from that level to the Ambulance Service so the AMPDS is in place to 'filter' the Emergencies from the calls that can be queued or even classed as 'Omega' which is refer to 'Another Facility, as in no ambulance required.
A call classified as 'Alpha' requires no blue lights or sirens. Same as if an ambulance is despatched to an 'Omega' call there is no requirement for lights & sirens.

999nobody

mcgarrett wrote: »

When passing the Chiefs house between 11pm and 8am.

I believe the siren is mandatory in this case, also you should slow to 5 mph for safety

crackcrack30

FME The dispatch codes seem to change/vary depending on how many crews are available...........and who is taking the call.......

WANTStoWORK

BX 19 wrote: »

Certain medical emergencies you would not use sirens or even lights

no lights!!!! So how the feck are ya to see where you are going when it's dark!!!!

TylerIE

scholar007 wrote: »

I was told (years ago) that the siren (when it was neee naaw, neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw, neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw,neee naaw, neee naaw, - sorry getting carried away) are not to be used after 11pm.

What are the certain medical emergencies for which you would not use sirens or even lights?

Perhaps someone was mistaken and assumed that the rules of the road part about car horns (honk honks) in built up areas between 11pm and 7am applied to ambulances etc.

Obviously minor injuries or stable illnesses do not require lights / sirens. You may find an ambulance not using sirens for somebody with an illness where stress may worsen their condition e.g. sirens on when somebody is having a heart attack. A [suspected] spinal injury is another example, although serious, getting to hospital 2-10 minutes quicker wont make any significant difference.

Other users have stated re AMPDS which guides you when responding. In Australia in many states you can only bring a patient in on lights/sirens if you have asked your control to have the hospital on standby (ie their condition is so serious that you want a specialist medical/trauma team meeting you at the door). Its the paramedics decision how to prioritise, but if they decide it warrants emergency transport they must notify control.

mediwheel

Well i have worked as a paramedic for 12yrs and regardless of AMPDS codes and the 112/999 system its ultimately the driver of the ambulance that decides how to respond to a call, after all its my licence not anyone else !

Zambia

I would be of the opinion that the Driver and crew know the situation and they can make the call at what speed and bells and whistles they need to transport the Patient. Within reason of course in the case of speed.

ivabiggon

BX 19 wrote: »

Certain medical emergencies you would not use sirens or even lights

DFB answer ALL calls under blue light, a directive issued by management! and it would never be a driver choice to not drive under blue light to a 999 call as this would be delaying a emergency call, and we all know what happened to a fireman for doing that a few years ago.

McWotever

ivabiggon wrote: »

DFB answer ALL calls under blue light, a directive issued by management! and it would never be a driver choice to not drive under blue light to a 999 call as this would be delaying a emergency call, and we all know what happened to a fireman for doing that a few years ago.

I'd be more concerned justifying my actions to a judge than to management. And that situation isn't completely relevant to this topic.

ivabiggon

Zambia wrote: »

I would be of the opinion that the Driver and crew know the situation and they can make the call at what speed and bells and whistles they need to transport the Patient. Within reason of course in the case of speed.

i was referring to the turnout response when i mentioned not delaying an ambulance case, now transporting is a total different thing, you can never trust the information from the control room, and they cant trust the info extracted from the 999 subscriber, hence the blue light turnout, but when a crew arrives they will make an medical assessment and drive accordingly, well, they should!!!

McWotever

I think we should agree to leave that incident aside, but I take your point.

The whole PMDS thing in DFB annoys me. I agree that you cannot trust the information coming from the CCRM in regards the incident, but it shouldn't be that way.

We've had proQA for 7 years and still only half implemented. Its a tried and trusted system in many EMS services, and has its proven track record. But in regard to responding to an incident, I can only go on the information I have been given from the CCRM and respond accordingly. If the information is received in the CCRM wrong or passed on incorrectly then its the link in the chain before me that is broken.

In regards transporting, obviously you are right, that is down to the crew making their own informed decisions.

Its going to happen one day where a serious accident is going to happen when someone is responding inappropriately to a less serious case. Where it has happened before, it just hasn't been followed up by a tough response. It only takes one over zelous traffic cop.

And the policy of blue lights to everything, in my opinion only, is to get the cases done quicker, to save on forking out for a full ambulance service, but that's opening another can of worms!

mediwheel

Well its in writing from PHECC that Omega and Alpha calls, are not to be responded to using lights and sirens. Its is a f#ck up of a system, but what would RTE put in the news every day if it wasnt for the HSE making a balls of something ?!!!

stretch00

mediwheel wrote: »

Well its in writing from PHECC that Omega and Alpha calls, are not to be responded to using lights and sirens. Its is a f#ck up of a system, but what would RTE put in the news every day if it wasnt for the HSE making a balls of something ?!!!

I think you misunderstand pheccs role. They do not and have not tried to define responses. This is a management function.

PHECC advised & suggested to them on the clinically appropriate responses, that's all.

scholar007

McWotever wrote: »

Its going to happen one day where a serious accident is going to happen when someone is responding inappropriately to a less serious case. Where it has happened before, it just hasn't been followed up by a tough response. It only takes one over zelous traffic cop.

This is a general emergency services query about blues & twos in the night time hours and not about any of the services in particular. I would assume that "one over zelous traffic cop" would cut a little bit of slack for fellow emergency services responders, who lets face it all have to deal with unpleasent situations while the rest of the population is safely tucked up in their beds.

I recall a case there recently (correct me if I'm wrong) where two AGS vehicles (a transit and a volvo) were involved in a collision while on blues and twos in the early hours, I would imagine all the services were involved in the clean up, so I would assume ( ass u me - God I hated that when I first heard it) there is a little give and take?

murf313

ivabiggon wrote: »

DFB answer ALL calls under blue light, a directive issued by management! and it would never be a driver choice to not drive under blue light to a 999 call as this would be delaying a emergency call, and we all know what happened to a fireman for doing that a few years ago.

The same dfb who i saw speed into beaumount recently on lights only to see a teenager limp out the back door with a sore ankle?

Its cases like this that really take the piss and why the first time a dfb ambo who smashes into someone whilst on lights/siren and responding to an alpha/omega call, the driver will be hung out to dry.

Also according to dfb management all ff's have been instructed to NOT use lights/sirens on alpha/omega calls.

Paulzx

murf313 wrote: »

The same dfb who i saw speed into beaumount recently on lights only to see a teenager limp out the back door with a sore ankle?

Its cases like this that really take the piss and why the first time a dfb ambo who smashes into someone whilst on lights/siren and responding to an alpha/omega call, the driver will be hung out to dry.

Also according to dfb management all ff's have been instructed to NOT use lights/sirens on alpha/omega calls.

You saw 1 driver driving inappropriately so every driver in the organisation is tarred by you.:rolleyes:

Your information is incorrect on what ff's have been instructed on as regards driving to ambo cases. A memo was issued a few months back saying all ambo cases were to be responded to on blues..

You either,

1- Are making S&*t up

2-Are a liar

or 3 - Don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Take your pick..........

murf313

Paulzx wrote: »

You saw 1 driver driving inappropriately so every driver in the organisation is tarred by you.:rolleyes:

Your information is incorrect on what ff's have been instructed on as regards driving to ambo cases. A memo was issued a few months back saying all ambo cases were to be responded to on blues..

You either,

1- Are making S&*t up

2-Are a liar

or 3 - Don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Take your pick..........

Ah right , that dfb officer i was talking to must of been lying then? So what your saying is, non emergency calls are to be responded to on lights/sirens?

I dont think i tarred everyone with the same brush.... but its not the first time ive seen it and im sure it wont be the last.

The dogs on the street know you lads in dfb love your lights and sirens......;):p

Paulzx

murf313 wrote: »

Ah right , that dfb officer i was talking to must of been lying then? So what your saying is, non emergency calls are to be responded to on lights/sirens?

I dont think i tarred everyone with the same brush.... but its not the first time ive seen it and im sure it wont be the last.

The dogs on the street know you lads in dfb love your lights and sirens......;):p

That dfb officer you were talking to obviously has as much of a clue as you.

Your other comment is childish and is obviously pitched at the level of your intelligence.

I'm not getting into slagging other services. We all have our negative dealings but i'll let you throw the dirt.

murf313

Paulzx wrote: »

That dfb officer you were talking to obviously has as much of a clue as you.

Your other comment is childish and is obviously pitched at the level of your intelligence.

I'm not getting into slagging other services. We all have our negative dealings but i'll let you throw the dirt.

Im only calling it as i see it..........

Im sure that officer knows exactly what he's talking about!

You didnt answer the question, are you instructed to respond to non emergency calls on lights/sirens?

I wont stoop to your level and respond with petty insults btw

Paulzx

murf313 wrote: »

You didnt answer the question, are you instructed to respond to non emergency calls on lights/sirens?

Can you read? This has been answered already in more than one post.

I wont stoop to your level and respond with petty insults btw

You've already gone down that road.

murf313

Paulzx wrote: »

Can you read? This has been answered already in more than one post.

You've already gone down that road.

So if you go to a scene and someone is complaining of a sore throat and a cough your happy enough to take them to a&e on lights and sirens? imo thats endangering 1. the public 2. the patient 3. yourselves. Lights/sirens should be used for emergencys only!

No i have not personally insulted you once. I may have criticised dfb policy but you have for some reason taken this personally.

Paulzx

murf313 wrote: »

So if you go to a scene and someone is complaining of a sore throat and a cough your happy enough to take them to a&e on lights and sirens? imo thats endangering 1. the public 2. the patient 3. yourselves. Lights/sirens should be used for emergencys only!

No i have not personally insulted you once. I may have criticised dfb policy but you have for some reason taken this personally.

You see this is what happens when you decide to make up your own answers.

What would i do? I'd go to the case on lights and sirens giving regard to all due care and attention to safety and other road users as i have been instructed to

When on scene i would assess the patient and then make the decision on transport.

Going back to your makey uppy i would then travel to hospital without lights as per normal traffic.

murf313

Paulzx wrote: »

You see this is what happens when you decide to make up your own answers.

What would i do? I'd go to the case on lights and sirens giving regard to all due care and attention to safety and other road users as i have been instructed to

When on scene i would assess the patient and then make the decision on transport.

Going back to your makey uppy i would then travel to hospital without lights as per normal traffic.

Even an omega call? Non emergency calls should not be responded to on lights/sirens. full stop.

Maybe your only following orders but its a crazy situation.

btw why are your posts so bitter and angry?

Paulzx

murf313 wrote: »

btw why are your posts so bitter and angry?

Are you a shrink?

murf313

Paulzx wrote: »

Are you a shrink?

no but sure let it all out, you'll feel better........:D