cruasder777 wrote: » No British soldiers deaths in NI were covered up as car crashes in Germany, its conspiracy theory rubbish. Put out by the PIRA to claim they were killing more soldiers then they actually were.
Such a senario would have envolved dozens of people from doctors and pathologists covering up the cause death to Police and military, even the coroner etc. The press would have certainly got hold of it by now, never mind families wanting answers, its absolute rubbish.
Here we go, c'mon Dave tell me how how 12 year old Tim Parry deserved to have his body torn apart for IRELAND, tell me again how three year old Jonathon Ball deserved to die because of his culpability for 800 years of British oppression, the bastard.
You don't have to be 'pro brit' to see that. One of my best friends is IRA, he did hard time for his actions. Not only that he is unreformed and and doesn't buy into the peace process to the point where the Branch hassle him. But quite frankly he's a better man than you. On the other hand I have a friend, a Brit, who won't tell me all he ever did. When the two get together it's very interesting. Mutual respect.
I don't understand why republicans complain about it. If it was a war then they were legitimate targets.
cruasder777 wrote: » So you seriously belive soldiers killed in NI were put on flights to Germany, then road accidents were staged so it could be claimed they died that way ? What about the bullet holes in the bodies ? The German Police would have had to have been in on it well, as well as German paramedics, pathologists, etc. You are obviously barking mad. Yet this is a common belief in republican circles.
HellsAngel wrote: » Where did I state or even infer that Brits killed in the north bodies were flown to Germany and road crashes etc staged . Simply, the Brit propaganda dept. put out the story of 'undercover' soldier Joe Bloggs been killed in a car accident in Germany or England/wherever and of course the totally compliant media faithfully printed it. When probably the real truth was he was doing a Capt Nairac and got whacked by the Provos. Simples. BTW, you or the other SAS fan boys haven't addressed the questions of in the SAS/RUC/Brits/UDR etc 'war against the terrorists' - (A) How many loyalists in the North Armagh/East Tyrone were killed ?? (B) How many Catholics were mown down by British directed UVF gangs in the North Armagh/East Tyrone area ??
cruasder777 wrote: » Do you not think the guys family might have noticed if the Ministry of Defence put out soldier A had been killed in a car crash in Germany, when infact he had been killed in NI ? Do you not think hes collegues might have noticed ? Do you not think the media might have noticed. :rolleyes: Do you not think hes death cert would have directly contradicted the claim? You are seriously claiming the media were part of this conspiracy ? The same media which has exposed MOD mistakes and shortcomings in Iraq, Afghanistan as well as in NI.
kabakuyu wrote: » found this on a military forum, "The Loughgall contact was led by a Staff Sgt from the Ulster Troop SAS. His Troop of 22 soldiers was bolstered by another 15 from G Troop who flew over from the UK, and flew back there straight after the contact". Another poster stated that 1 SAS soldier secreted inside the police station died in hospital on the mainland as a result of injuries he received during the blast, is this accurate?
HellsAngel wrote: » ...As for trying to pretend that the authorites, police, pathologists, press etc in the north wouldn't participate in a cover up........ARE YOU FOR REAL !!!! Bloody Sunday, Stalker Affair, collusion etc :rolleyes:
goldie fish wrote: » If someone said it on the INTERNET it must be true....
kabakuyu wrote: » Your response to me is juvenille and reallly does not add to the thread;).Do you have any other sources that could enlighten us or do you know anything concerning Loughgall.One SAS man does appear to have been injured and when it comes to the SAS the military authorities are quite secretive so it is quite possible he may have died at a later date.BTW the sources I qouted are current and ex BA personnel. Regards, KK
goldie fish wrote: » You didn't "qoute" them, you mentioned seeing them in a website somewhere.Try harder. Give us a link at least. Would be better if you could verify that the person posting was ACTUALLY who they said they were. For Example, I am HRH Prince William. My Mother, Princess Diana, was killed by my Grandfather, according to someone on the internet, who I have 1000% faith in, even though I never met them in my life. However they say their second cousin twice removed said his aunts greenkeepers nephew took a photo of an MI5 agent cutting the brakes on the limo while Grandpapa held the torch.....
kabakuyu wrote: » Oh,but I did qoute them,but you can't seem to understand that;).You insist on contributing nothing to the thread,so maybe I should take it that you don't really know alot about Loughgall, instead of trying harder I am going to make it simpler just for you:)This is the question I asked, it has been speculated on another forum that the SAS man who was injured in the Loughgall ambush may have later died of his injuries in Britain(I do not know how accurate this speculation is ) but can anybody shed any light on this, please do not comment if like some posters you can't really contribute something pertinent to my query. Best regards, KK
kabakuyu wrote: » ...it has been speculated on another forum that the SAS man who was injured in the Loughgall ambush may have later died of his injuries in Britain(I do not know how accurate this speculation is ) but can anybody shed any light on this, please do not comment if like some posters you can't really contribute something pertinent to my query....
goldie fish wrote: » Does your mummy know you are up this late? Seeing as you can't spell Quote, I am surprised you understand what the word means. It has been speculated on a website you claim to have seen but have not provided a link to=it never happened, you dreamt it. Loughgall=(not enough dead provo terrorists+too many civilian deaths)/ra realising they can't play big boys rules any more and resort to killing children and pregnant women in ill timed bombing "spectaculars"
The Derryard Action, County Fermanagh, 13th December 1989 In the dark winter evening the Permanent Vehicle Check Point (PVCP) North of Rosslea, close to the border with Monaghan, was manned by 8 soldiers commanded by Corporal Robert Duncan. In response to a threat to the border locations an additional 4-man team commanded by Corporal Ian Harvey was on external patrol. From the direction of the border a specially armour-plated lorry, with about twelve terrorists intent on destroying the base stopped, and as Private Houston checked the back of it, automatic gunfire opened up from Armalite and AK47 rifles. Grenades were thrown into the base, and a flame-thrower was aimed at the command sangar. Two RPG7 Rockets were fired at the observation sangar. Heavy suppressive fire continued as the lorry reversed and smashed its way into the compound. Two soldiers were killed. The truck drove out of the devastated PVCP, and a red transit van drove in, laden with explosives. Fortunately only the booster charge exploded. As the patrol came up rapidly, firing at the terrorists, the truck drove off at speed, its two machine-guns mounted on the rear firing, its driver intent on escape. It was found abandoned at the border with a 210 kg bomb on board. The scale and type of this attack had never been seen before in Northern Ireland. ....... I was phoned soon after the action. I flew to Belfast and was driven to the location. In order to paint the action it was important to see the PVCP in its scarred condition, before it was repaired. The lonely, isolated building put me in mind of the beleaguered little forts which dotted this part of Ireland in the time of Queen Elizabeth I.
The assault would involve the use of two 12.7mm DShK machine guns, 11 AK-47s, different kinds of grenades, and a flamethrower. The bulk of the flying column would be driven to the checkpoint on a makeshift armoured truck. To assure widespread destruction, the column decided to detonate a van bomb after the initial surprise assault. The chosen target, a vehicle checkpoint at Derryard, near Rosslea, was manned by eight soldiers of the 1st Battalion of the King's Own Scottish Borderers regiment and a member of the RUC. After launching a number of grenades (either RPGs or home made devices), the IRA members managed to break into the compound using the armour-plated lorry, supported by automatic fire and the flamethrower’s stream of fire, which was aimed at the main sangar. The orange ball of flames was witnessed by a farmer some distance away amid gunfire 'raking the fields'. In the process the IRA men killed two soldiers, Pte James Houston and L/Cpl Michael Patterson. Cpl Law was severely wounded by shrapnel and later airlifted for treatment. Another soldier suffered minor injures. The defenders were forced to seek shelter in sangars, from where they fired into their own base. The IRA unit left inside the complex a van loaded with 400-lb (182 kg) of Semtex, which failed to explode. The attack was finally repulsed by a Borderers section from the checkpoint that was patrolling nearby, with the support of a Wessex helicopter. The patrol fired more than 100 rounds.The IRA column, at risk of being surrounded, then fled in the truck, possibly toward the border. ...... A senior British military officer, when quizzed about the IRA attack said: They are murdering bastards, but they are not cowards. This team actually pressed home a ground attack right into the heart of the compound. That takes guts when there are people firing back. KOSB officers and security sources realised that the IRA unit involved was not locally recruited, putting the blame instead on IRA members from Clogher, County Tyrone and South Monaghan, in the Republic. The same sources said that the plan of the attack was executed in true backside-or-bust Para style.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Derryard_checkpoint
goldie fish wrote: » Does your mummy know you are up this late? Seeing as you can't spell Quote, I am surprised you understand what the word means.
Exile 1798 wrote: » Nice bit of invective. If we subtracted your numerous posts and those missives of a similar nature from this thread it would perhaps have about 40 posts, rather then 100. As this is supposed to be the military forum, and keeping in mind the original - and very interesting question posed by the person who started the thread - let's perhaps stick to topic, rather then posting, and re-posting (and re-posting again) propaganda laced with invective. The assault on Derryard lead by East Tyrone two years after Loughall where according to some posters they had been "wiped out", or taught they couldn't "play big boys rules". (:rolleyes: at "big boys rules")http://www.davidrowlands.co.uk/gallery/gal_detail.asp?varPaintCode=693 The Derryard permanent checkpoint was abandoned 18 months later. We could get into other large assaults/counter ambushes carried out by other Brigades in other areas at this time - but that would be getting away from the topic and the question at hand.
KOSB officers and security sources realised that the IRA unit involved was not locally recruited, putting the blame instead on IRA members from Clogher, County Tyrone and South Monaghan, in the Republic.
OS119 wrote: » think logically. in order to suceed in any such operation it wouldn't just be the UK looking to decieve, it would be the German/whatever state looking to decieve. somehow the BG would have to get a body from rural Tyrone to Hamburg, arrange a 'traffic accident', get into a German civilian hospital in the normal chaos of a A+E, and not have the A+E consultant notice that the body had been dead for 8hrs (minimum) and was riddled with bullet holes. you then have to get the family of the soldier concerned to not be in the least puzzled as to why their son/husband/brother was in Germany when they had a letter from him a week ago telling them how **** the weather was in Dungannon. you then need to ask yourself what is the thing that links all the scandals you've mentioned - and the answer is that the cover-up has been laughably inept, and that, by and large, the scandals have been exposed by people within the British military/police establishment. yet not in this case... do you actually believe that there can be a shooting in NI with all the normal activity that accompanies such an event - helicopters, QRF, hospitals, then get the body to Aldergrove, get an RAF Hercules crew out of bed in Lyneham, have it fly to Aldergrove, pick up the body, fly it to Germany, unload the body, find a serious car crash, pretend the three bullet wounds in the chest are the result of not wearing a seatbelt when you get it to a German hospital, then have a civilian inquest and involve the German traffic police, all without one single person blabbing about this? really? does that not make you think it more likely that perhaps this is a story that tells republicans what they want to hear and re-inforces their prejudices?
cruasder777 wrote: » The Derryard checkpoint attack was carried out by various PIRA units from throughout NI.Moloney maintains that the planning was in the charge of Thomas Murphy, alleged leader of the South Armagh Brigade, and was to be conducted by East Tyrone Brigade member Michael "Pete" Ryan. Journalist Ian Bruce, instead, claims that an Irishman who served on the Parachute Regiment was the leader of the IRA unit, citing intelligence sources.[3] The column was made up of volunteers from throughout Northern Ireland.[2]
HellsAngel wrote: » ...When probably the real truth was he was doing a Capt Nairac and got whacked by the Provos. Simples. "
Exile 1798 wrote: » ie, East Tyrone IRA. Lead by Pete Ryan, the then OC of East Tyrone IRA. As I said all along, it was lead by East Tyrone IRA. That there were IRA Volunteers from other brigades involved isn't in question.
OS119 wrote: » i have been following it - what passes for discussion anyway... in the situation you claim, what part would be wildly different to my counter argument? are you claiming that there's a whole load of dead brits buried in peat bogs that their families haven't heard from in 30 years?
i genuinely don't understand - given the roadblocks that exist in covering up a death for 30 years - how you can really believe that the BA lost more people than they claim they did. tell me how - or get TPC to tell me how - the BA has covered up X number of deaths for 30 years without any of their friends, family and colleagues mentioning that big Dave never came back from that NI tour, and how none of the people involved in orchestrating that cover-up talked to the press - i'm all ears...
HellsAngel wrote: » :rolleyes:
cruasder777 wrote: » Keep digging. Moloney maintains that the planning was in the charge of Thomas Murphy, Of South Armagh PIRA The column was made up of volunteers from throughout Northern Ireland.[2]
Moloney maintains that the planning was in the charge of Thomas Murphy, alleged leader of the South Armagh Brigade, and was to be conducted by East Tyrone Brigade member Michael "Pete" Ryan.
getz wrote: » i still find it hard to understand why people living in the south of the ireland,still support a group of terrorists who have murdered more catholics/republicans than the BA /police/and loyalist terror groups put together,
Exile 1798 wrote: » BA/RUC/Loyalists combined killed 1030 Catholics during the Troubles. The IRA killed 343. It's often the case that one finds things which one knows nothing about hard to understand.
