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Videographer vs Photographer

Average-Ro

I'm just hoping to start a discussion here and get other peoples views on this subject.

POINT 1
I posted in another thread here yesterday where someone had said that they would spend as much as possible on the photographer and then give a couple of hundred euro to the videographer (that's not aan attack on that poster or anything, just using that situation to illustrate a larger point)

POINT 2
I was talking to a wedding photographer friend and he told me this story; he was at the reception of one particular wedding that he was photographing and one of his employees was doing the video. The bridal party and guests had moved out to the bar so that the hotel staff could clear the ballroom for the band.

While at the bar, the bridal party and guests started a huge sing-along. The bride asked one of the guests to fetch the photographer as she wanted a picture of the event. When the guests told the photographer, he thought "I'll do one better" and he got a hold of the videographer and asked him to film it. The videographer came back 30 seconds later saying the bride had sent him away, and that she wanted a picture of the sing-along and not video

POINT 3 (a small point:))
There's a wedding photographers sticky but no wedding videographers sticky?:eek:

As you might have gathered, I'm a cameraman/editor and 70% of the work I do are weddings. However, I feel that wedding videography is not getting the respect or recognition it deserves.

I've come across a lot of couples who would spend 2000 - 3000 on a photographer, yet they wouldn't dream of spending half that amount on a videographer. Why is this? Even before I got into filmmaking, I always thought that a DVD would be more valuable than an album of photos.

There are quite a few people out there who grab a video camera and offer to do a wedding DVD for little money. These are usually the people with little or no training and only want to make a few extra quid. They get in peoples way during the day, miss important parts, have crap audio etc. I understand that these types can give the rest of us aa bad name, but is that where it all stems from?

I understand that Ireland as a nation isn't as up to date as the likes of America, Australia etc. in terms of wedding videography, but it's been around long enough for Irish people not to be a stranger to it.

Is it that wedding videos are still a relatively new thing in Ireland that gives of this lack of respect for videographers? Will the next generation of couples be more open to it as it will be more familiar? Or willing videographers always be playing catch-up to photographers?

Opinions please.

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Average-Ro

MIRMIR82 wrote: »

I'd just like to add to this - i think if people have to choose between photo/video because of budget - they would naturally go with photos. At the end of the day every family has wedding videos in their cupboards and how often are they watched?? A photo can be hung on the wall and seen everyday.
Not putting down videographers at all- i am concidering getting one myself (budget permitting) but i think this is the thinking of most people.

This reinforces a point that was made on the first page of this thread; photographers are seen as must-haves and videographers are just an optional extra. I wonder if a day will come where both are seen as must-haves?

I'm also wondering if this is an Irish thing? Would English or American people have the same outlook of videographers being an extra option? Or do they see it as a must have as well?

From my experience; English and American people are MUCH more comfertable around the camera. I often go around getting video message from the guests (people wishing the couple a happy life together, recounting funny stories etc.) It's extremely difficult to get messages from about 70% of Irish people, they dont want to be on camera at all. Any American or English people I've asked have always jumped at the chance to leave a message.

Average-Ro

smelltheglove wrote: »

I wonder do we have a wedding coming up together soon..... I spoke to a couple recently who decided yeah they would get one if they could have metallica on it.

It is great to have an understanding with the other supplier, photo wise it is a nightmare if there someone else setting up shots as soon as the photos are taken, it takes away from the atmosphere so when the videographer is a natural and follows the photog using those set up shots it can work brilliantly, I would be inclined to set up a few action shots also which look great on dvd.

I'll keep your name in mind so that I'll remember i you if we ever end up working together;)

It really is great to have an uderstanding with the other supplier. I'm lucky to have only worked with two photographers so far who were a pain. One of them rarely did weddings and was mainly a portrait photographer so I understood why she kept messing things up on me, didn't make me any happier though:mad:

Following the photographer is always my favourite part of the day (aside from the free dinner:D) The photo shoot is usually at a gorgous location and the photographer sets up some interesting poses so I'm able to expresses myself more from a creative point of view; and without bothering anyone!

ConroyVideo

Average-Ro wrote: »

From my experience; English and American people are MUCH more comfertable around the camera.

I think that has a lot to do with it.

We (Irish) don't like looking at ourselves and we don't like listening to ourselves either.

In regards to the bride not wanting to film the sing-song, I guess she was afraid that people might be hesitant to sing if they knew it was being filmed.

Fionn

coming to this a bit late but heres my 50¢
I've done a good few weddings at this stage - stills photography and recently was asked to do a video of one, so with some trepidation I agreed, I must say I have newfound admiration for the men and women who undertake videography. I certainly dont think they should be undervalued or be considered less important.
I do understand that a lot of people have this notion of some uncle or cousin holding a handy cam and the result is shaky badly lit inaudible footage.

Dedicated videographers will have much better equipment in terms of audio/video and general shooting style.

I was supplied with a good Camcorder - capable of capturing HD video 1920x1080/60i and also stills of 14 Mpix to cover the event. Unfortunately i didn't have any lights or extra audio options, however I was able to capture the essential moments during the day (the money shots if you will). The footage in total was in the region of nine hours or thereabouts - after editing it was one hour twenty minutes long and i also supplied a 10 minute short of the highlights, in different formats e.g. for Facebook/Youtube, Mobile phone, Android, iPhone etc.
There was an awful lot to learn to do the editing however it was worth it, but a steep learning curve

I was pleased enough with the output to put my name on it !
Having experienced this from both perspectives I must say that i see no reason why both stills and video cannot complement each other. I do think that the short 10 minute highlights footage would be a thing that would attract a lot of couples because of its portability compared to photographs.

A few points on some of the views raised:
Yes we (irish) dont like hearing or seeing ourselves - I dont think this will change anytime soon (maybe try it when they're falling down drunk)

Speaking of - in the few days i had to prepare for this event I had a look at some sites online - there was one in particular that i thought wasn't great - it showed very drunk people acting and doing very drunk things - maybe not one to show your kids in a few years time.
I think this is one point that clients should be reminded of, that among other things, everything they do/say is being recorded.

As far as choosing between a videographer or a stills photographer I think the line is going to get more blurred, I've got a EOS 7D for exactly the purpose of motion video to enhance slide shows. I am considering getting a dedicated camcorder to extend the range of services i can offer.

Everyone has or knows of someone that had bad experience with photographers and i suppose videographers too. That shouldn't cloud your judgement tho in getting a reasonable price for the day, there are lots of dedicated, creative people around as well as chancers!

I do think that video is getting more popular, I'm talking about good clear video, clean audio, sound tracks, tight editing appealing cinematography, it's all possible.
Most photographers supply a slide show of the photographs of the day, this usually has music, slick presentations with overlays and slide transitions etc. so in effect it's just not only photographs that people expect any more.

sorry for the rambling post.......

HairMonster

AverageRo, if you're still following this thread I thought I'd give you some more feedback.
I will absolutely not be having a videographer at my wedding, and its nothing to do with the quality. I 've been to quite a few weddings where there was a videographer (pro & amateur) and I hated it, and the other guests there also hated it.

1. They show the reality and we don't really want that! As Rook said, we can pick & choose the photos that make us & the day look good and that capture our memories. I want to think I looked just like that snapshot in the photo all day. I do not want to know that most of the time I had a double chin, when I talk my mouth looks like a fish, or that I looked pregnant when I thought the dress hid my pot-belly or that I walked up the aisle like John Wayne in my pinching shoes. I don't want to hear myself stumbling nervously over my vows or listen to my MILs embarrassing singing after she hijacked the mic from the band.

2. They make the guests uncomfortable and more reserved, especially on the dance floor. You don't even have to ask them to say something into the camera. As has been said, us Irish do not like watching ourselves and we especially do not like seeing ourselves looking like idiots when we thought we were the coolest dancers in the county. I've been at weddings where the dancefloor remained empty until the videographer left.

3. It is not value for money. You might hang up a couple of photos or flick through your album for a couple of minutes every so often. Are you really going to sit down and watch your wedding DVD more than a couple of times? Who has the time to do that? And certainly no one else will want to see it - a group of us were made sit through a friends video and we really didn't care who her great-aunt Flo was sitting with. Flicking through the photos and stopping at the ones you're interested in is much quicker and much less painful. And your kids wont be interested either once they reach the age of 6 or 7.

TheRook made some excellent points, some of which overlap with my own, and I think it is these and not quality are the main reasons for the video being considered a optional extra.

LBD

I have to whole heartedly disagree with some of the previous posters. We got married six weeks ago and our videographer was worth his weight in gold, he was simply brilliant. Not one guest even noticed he was there! He fit in perfectly with our photographer and they complimented each other very well...

I would consider myself pretty awkward and was nervous about having him there but had been advised by friends married before us that it was money well spent. I am so glad we listened to them. Within a few weeks of our wedding he had put a highlights clip together, 7minutes of our days "best bits". I have lost count of the amount of times I have watched it and believe me there is nothing clinical about it, far from it. I got to see our day through a different pair of eyes, me walking up the aisle, our first kiss, the speeches. My absolute favourite bit is being able to see our guests reactions and faces at certain points in the day and to hear the laughter and heckles during the speeches. The faces on my parents when we were just married is something I will treasure for the rest of my days. I know some will argue a photo can capture this but to me there is something about seeing these emotions in "motion" that is so special!! Wedding videos have come a long long way from the days of camera set up on a tripod and not moving for the day! Ours is just beautiful, shot in a really romantic style which is hard to explain.

I don't know, each to their own but I know personally the videographer was the best money we spent as I know it is something I will watch over and over again.

Bride2012

I'm getting married next June and we've already made the decision not to have a videographer. I've seen some friends' cheesy videos and been badgered at a wedding to say something to the camera and it has just put me off.

Gatica

I never knew of videographers at weddings until I attended one that had one last year. The video was a full hour, so quite long to sit-through if you're not interested in all the detail, but the short of it was great and got shown to lots of friends and relatives thereafter.
I'm prioritising a photographer for our wedding simply because I've always enjoyed physically having photographs and albums to flick through, Even with digital pictures, I've always printed them and put them into albums. I've a lot of family abroad and will be sending them copies of photos as well.
I do want a videographer though as well, as that particular wedding's record made me feel that it is something I'd love to have as keepsake too; mainly to show our children someday and to have a look at ourselves when we're old. The short on the phone will be great to show other friends and acquiantances.
I would budget equal amounts for both, simply because there's no point having a poor video and we'll start with just having the basic DVD package for photos, then get them done over time when we have money again.

nicowa

I know this is a fairly old thread but-

when we got engaged I had the idea I'd ask one of my sisters Film n TV college friends to do the video. I've seen a few things he's done - one of him filming his way through the Galway Christmas Market and he managed to make something flashy and crowded look incredible. Unfortunately he decided that weddings are beneath him...

Since then we decided not to go with a videographer - again mostly cos my memories of them are as something grainy with bad sound and all I can remember of my sister's wedding video is my bad dancing (I was 14 and though I was the sh*t).

But I'd love a good videographer for the non-dancing parts (the first dance and one or two waltzes being the exception), but again it's just about the quality and the edit choice.

If the videographers who posted here want to pm me their websites/quotes/phone numbers I'd be really interested.

texanman

There will always be people for and against videographers. Some may have had a bad experience. But any experienced professional will capture the day without you noticing that they are there. Once comment made was that ” we won’t look at the video that often”. That may be true, but it’s the lasting memories captured that you have forever that should be the main point.
You’re not going to look at your wedding album ever day either I suspect.
As an experienced videographer, I am very much aware of what people are looking for. Someone that is courteous, professional and discreet.

LifeSceneFilms

Great post Ro

I am directly involved in one of the services in question, however I'll comment not as a wedding vendor, but as a guy who's two years married, having lived through the very decision of photographer & videographer myself 2 years ago, I'll comment on the conversation that swayed my decision.

The wedding "video guy" was the next thing on our 'to - do' list. The wife didn't want a circus at our wedding, however my long term memory is weak & looking at a photograph will bring back the general feeling, but not all the detail you overlook & miss in the excitment of the day. Also, as it's not logistically possible to be in two 2 places at once, so a wedding DVD does carry and reveal an element of surprise when you watch it.

To be honest, I must have rang 10 - 15 "video guys", who all harped on about the above advantages. Bla bla bla, ya i'll see guest reactions when arriving etc, when I'm sneaking off with my new wif, but this really didn't sell me. I was also struggling with the different package offerings, and what the difference between a 1 or 2 camera shoot actually meant to my wedding budget at the time, but I was stunned into deep thought during one of the calls, and i remember the conversation well, (surprisingly for me) because he asked if legacy was important to me.

I said "what do you mean?". He asked politely if both sets of parents "are still alive", and after touching wood, I replied "yes". He mentioned that couples always overlooked the long term advantage of getting a professionally crafted momento. Sure a wedding Film will gather dust after wedding fever fades, but how do you measure true worth.

Perhaps it takes a beloved family member to pass away, and perhaps it's that one moment when family sit around all reminicing at how much fun & craic he or she was on the dance floor of your wedding, when you finally realise the true worth of your wedding film.

The newlyweds also forget the parties that a wedding film affords them before the wedding and honeymoon can be considered in the past. Treat it like a premier of your very own movie, in which you played the starring roles in. Measue the cost of a wedding film in terms of the entertainment, memories, and legacy you get from it. Don't judge a wedding film, on a €300 amateur job, that you would be embarassed to show at a house party, and that those not reflect the true atmosphere and feeling of your wedding day, when you think back on it.

Ronan is right. Wedding Films are already changing in Ireland, and you only have to google the words StillMotion from Toronto, to see how your big day can be captured cinematically, reflecting all the energy, emotion and excitement. The couples choosing photographers only, are not aware of changing trends i bet.

Toto Wolfcastle

LifeSceneFilms wrote: »

The couples choosing photographers only, are not aware of changing trends i bet.

I have seen Still Motion films and the equivalent in Ireland, and we're still not getting a DVD. Those companies do fantastic things and are utterly impressive, but I'd still only watch the DVD a handful of times so to me it's not worth it.

silly

Initially we were not going to get a videographer, I thought i'd be nervous enough without my every move being filmed and my husband was dead set against it... No way would he pay the money for one.

But a family friend was suggested to me (established company) and that I would get a discounted price, said it to hubby and he was still not too keen on it.

After we recieved a very welcome cash gift from my parents we decided to go with it. And we are so glad, especially my husband!!!

He was very nervous during the speeches that he can hardly remember what he said, I was too emotional to take it all in, so we cannot wait to see the final product ( have just seen highlights online and loved it!)

There is so much I missed, or was on such a high that I didn't even notice things. All the songs I had picked for the church, I can't even remember hearing most of them!!!

So i'd definatley recommend one.

Borderfox

texanman wrote: »

There will always be people for and against videographers. Some may have had a bad experience. But any experienced professional will capture the day without you noticing that they are there. Once comment made was that ” we won’t look at the video that often”. That may be true, but it’s the lasting memories captured that you have forever that should be the main point.
You’re not going to look at your wedding album ever day either I suspect.
As an experienced videographer, I am very much aware of what people are looking for. Someone that is courteous, professional and discreet.

For me working with a videographer I would like more interaction from them, I have worked with a lot of videographers from different styles/ways of working and I could only count two that really pursued the vision that they had in mind, when I say that I mean they interacted with the couple and myself and what was produced between the two of us was really special.

Thats what I would want from my videographer

GeorgeBailey

Borderfox wrote: »

For me working with a videographer I would like more interaction from them, I have worked with a lot of videographers from different styles/ways of working and I could only count two that really pursued the vision that they had in mind, when I say that I mean they interacted with the couple and myself and what was produced between the two of us was really special.

Thats what I would want from my videographer

As a videographer I like to interact with the photgrapher but try to keep out of the couple's way as much as possible because their day and their memories of the day should involve me (a complete stranger in most cases) as little as possible.... imho

By the way, I've previously worked with you so I'm gonna pretend I was one of the two you're talking about

LifeSceneFilms

I think it's time to talk footy, and wrap this up :-)

FT: Chocolate Fountains 4 - 1 Videographers

Another crushing defeat for Videographers in this thread, but looking forward to next weeks match up against Ice sculptures Utd.

Hopefully our breed of stars can start moving further up the Brides "to do" list during the next wedding season, and start qualifying automatically for more wedding Day finals, against the likes of Photographers Utd, & Chocolate Fountains.

From recent performances in Irish leagues, there should be enough video evidence to suggest that videographers are making great strides up the 'to do' list, since undergoing an intense pre-season training regime at cinematography academy, in in years to come, this exciting & creative brand of prefessionals, will be favourites for the budget euro.

Borderfox

From what I have seen there is a lot of change going on in the business and that can only be good for it, techniques are changing and heading in the right direction. It does has its place in a wedding day and similar to photography it will be around long after the cake is eaten, the dress rolled in a ball in the attic

and the couple grown old together

Borderfox

this was posted up on Fstoppers and its not so much about capturing everything but more the feel of a fantasy day

Cameras Used:
Canon 60D
Canon T2i
Panasonic AF100

Lenses Used:
Tamron 17-55mm 2.8 VC
Canon 70-200mm 2.8 IS
Canon 200mm f2
Canon 16-35mm 2.8
Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95
Panasonic 7-14mm F4
Panasonic 14-140 f4-5.8

Other Gear:
Cinevate Atlas Slider
Photoflex Starlite
Ebay LED Panel

http://vimeo.com/30653844

GeorgeBailey

Borderfox wrote: »

this was posted up on Fstoppers and its not so much about capturing everything but more the feel of a fantasy day

Cameras Used:
Canon 60D
Canon T2i
Panasonic AF100

Lenses Used:
Tamron 17-55mm 2.8 VC
Canon 70-200mm 2.8 IS
Canon 200mm f2
Canon 16-35mm 2.8
Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95
Panasonic 7-14mm F4
Panasonic 14-140 f4-5.8

Other Gear:
Cinevate Atlas Slider
Photoflex Starlite
Ebay LED Panel

http://vimeo.com/30653844

Nicely shot but for me he's gone overboard on slow-motioning the bejaysus outta everything

Crazy World

I found this thread very interesting. Thanks. I am a wedding videographer and 1 thing i would add is this: I see the gap between take up in video and take up in photography as a positive thing. It means there is a huge part of the market still to be "turned on" to the idea of wedding videos. I'm happy to be approaching the future with a solid business plan, knowing the market is not already saturated. Quality will always speak for itself. Professionalism, courtesy and attitude on the day towards people are of vital importance also.
It's great to see the photographers here speak highly of the videographers. I think it is so true that a good videographer will compliment the photographers work on the day, its always nice learning new shots and different views on things.
Ronan

bette

Borderfox wrote: »

this was posted up on Fstoppers and its not so much about capturing everything but more the feel of a fantasy day

Cameras Used:
Canon 60D
Canon T2i
Panasonic AF100

Lenses Used:
Tamron 17-55mm 2.8 VC
Canon 70-200mm 2.8 IS
Canon 200mm f2
Canon 16-35mm 2.8
Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95
Panasonic 7-14mm F4
Panasonic 14-140 f4-5.8

Other Gear:
Cinevate Atlas Slider
Photoflex Starlite
Ebay LED Panel

http://vimeo.com/30653844

Sorry but that is more like an ad for soap or body lotion...

We should see a bit more action than the slo-mo stuff. The music is too 'in your face' and should have some transition to another tune as it's just too long.

I wouldn't take that as a good memento of a wedding.

Could do with some walking down the aisle, some shots of the vocalists merged in. Mammy's tears could figure. Some brat yawning for a touch of fun.

Crazy World

bette wrote: »

Sorry but that is more like an ad for soap or body lotion...

We should see a bit more action than the slo-mo stuff. The music is too 'in your face' and should have some transition to another tune as it's just too long.

I wouldn't take that as a good memento of a wedding.

Could do with some walking down the aisle, some shots of the vocalists merged in. Mammy's tears could figure. Some brat yawning for a touch of fun.

How about this so Click Here
I hope LBD does not mind, it is actually the clip from her wedding! This was 1 of my first weddings when i went out on my own. I have since started using dslr's also to increase the production value in my offerings.
Ronan

Fionn

those cinematic type films are very popular in North America for weddings, i think they're only catching on here.
But American weddings are very different than here, they tend to be much more emotional and wear their heart on their sleeve, people there appear much more confident and really like to take part in the pagent, up to recently Irish people probably werent as outgoing/extrovert as over in the US so the video/film was a much bigger challenge, but i think all that is beginning to change as couples see whats available on the net and would like something similar. A three camera operator wedding video is going to cost a bit so it might not be for everyone.
On the subject of dSLRs, they do come with their limitations, focus problems, overheating, the current 4 Gb limit, form factor, moire, aliasing, rolling shutter etc. not always the best for event videography where theres not always the chance of a re-take, having said that they can produce some great footage! using two dslrs and a camcorder on a shoot with that many lenses youd need a full film crew to get it all done

Most videographers these days are offering the 15 minute short (the soap add) the hour long feature (boring for most) and the smart phone / facebook 3 minute trailer, something for everyone!