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Why do we like to put bad people in "boxes"

The Left Hand Of God

After all the killing in Oslo it would seem it is better to think of the guy as mentally disturbed/ill

So after listening to the radio debate on it today where people were saying he is sick in the head someone said that once gay people were seen as sick and suffering some mental disease but now they are OK and if you think that gay people are not normal you are sick in the head.

It made me think that we like to put people we don't understand into boxes that we consider "away" from us.

Do you put people in boxes or are you very open minded?

I consider myself very open minded.

You?

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Kojak

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

Do you put people in boxes?

No sorry, I'm not an undertaker....

Liam Byrne

We don't put bad people anywhere.

We list places they'll be put if they do bad things and they choose to put themselves there.

D1stant

Not sure you can compare being gay with some nutter who kills dozens of innocent people

Was Hitler misunderstood too?

Killer Pigeon

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

After all the killing in Oslo it would seem it is better to think of the guy as mentally disturbed/ill

So after listening to the radio debate on it today where people were saying he is sick in the head someone said that once gay people were seen as sick and suffering some mental disease but now they are OK and if you think that gay people are not normal you are sick in the head.

It made me think that we like to put people we don't understand into boxes that we consider "away" from us.

Do you put people in boxes or are you very open minded?

I consider myself very open minded.

You?

You cannot seriously be comparing the "misunderstood" gay people of the past with a psychotic mass murderer?

Mass murderers who decide to kill innocent children are sick in the head and should always be defined as such. End of. It doesn't matter if you consider yourself open or closed minded.

Gay people aren't ending the lives of others, most go about their lives not effecting everyone else's.

citizen_p

yes because in 20 years time mass murders will be much more understood and maybe, just maybe, will be accepted by our bigoted society

starbelgrade

I wonder what it's like to **** with the Left Hand of God?

amacca

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

After all the killing in Oslo it would seem it is better to think of the guy as mentally disturbed/ill

So after listening to the radio debate on it today where people were saying he is sick in the head someone said that once gay people were seen as sick and suffering some mental disease but now they are OK and if you think that gay people are not normal you are sick in the head.

do you consider a person who willfully carries out mass murder to be simply just making another life choice

I think the guy is mentally disturbed/ill...................I dont think I'm trying to put him in a box to make myself feel better...I think this is just the case

do you think he is well adjusted?

amacca

starbelgrade wrote: »

I wonder what it's like to **** with the Left Hand of God?

No you dont!:D

usernamegoes

I also don't think he's insane as we'd use the term in legal defense here (I don't know about there). He knew what he was doing was wrong so shouldn't be allowed use the defense.

That doesn't mean, if he gets prison he shouldn't be given mental health help.

starbelgrade

D1stant wrote: »

Not sure you can compare being gay with some nutter who kills dozens of innocent people

Was Hitler misunderstood too?

No, but he was gay.

AhSureTisGrand

This is why I feel "stupid" is a highly underrated word. If we judge someone on what they think rather than on their mental faculties, then we can quite rightly call this Breivik fellow, with his 1500 pages of bull**** and accidental sophistry, fùcking stupid. Unfortunately however, the guy displayed some cunning in his plan, so now it seems to have been decided that he must be immune from stupidity. So we the people have to come up with other ways of rejecting him, the most common one being calling him insane, despite the utter lack of symptoms to suggest this

Chuck Stone

To hear them plead to get out.

Bassfish

Odd way to phrase the question but i take your point. We put people in these 'boxes' as you call them because it dissociates ourselves to them. Someone kills someone, we say, he must be a nutter, he must be on drugs, it's because he's a muslim etc etc etc. that way we can be comfy thinking that we are nothing like those people. I had a convesation with my mother recently where she said, 'that generation of Germans in the 30's and 40's must all have been evil!
I said, of course they weren't evil, they were rational people like us, indoctrinated, coerced and forced into a set of beliefs that allowed them to justify and rationalise anti-semitism and hatred of anyone who wasn't Aryan.
We don't like to think we have anything in common with people that do bad things but the truth is we are all 99% the same and it's just that 1% that separates us.

Killer Pigeon

usernamegoes wrote: »

I also don't think he's insane as we'd use the term in legal defense here (I don't know about there). He knew what he was doing was wrong so shouldn't be allowed use the defense.

That doesn't mean, if he gets prison he shouldn't be given mental health help.

Insane, psychotic or "clean" minded - whatever you like to call it - he should be kept away from society for the rest of his life in a dark isolated cell somewhere in the fjords of Northern Norway.

amacca

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

This is why I feel "stupid" is a highly underrated word. If we judge someone on what they think rather than on their mental faculties, then we can quite rightly call this Breivik fellow, with his 1500 pages of bull**** and accidental sophistry, fùcking stupid. Unfortunately however, the guy displayed some cunning in his plan, so now it seems to have been decided that he must be immune from stupidity. So we the people have to come up with other ways of rejecting him, the most common one being calling him insane, despite the utter lack of symptoms to suggest this

I'm confused...if you commit mass murder (especially in such a personal way as this) he pulled the trigger (face to face with his victims) can you be described as being perfectly sane.

While you may not be communing with flying pigs, surely, only an insane belief/ideology would allow you to do something like this.

Anyway...however he his classified....he should be punished and studied to see what makes him tick and if its possible to reduce the likelihodd of this happening again (early warning/detection etc)

strobe

I don't necessarily think this guy (or other murderers) are insane but I don't see whats wrong with putting murderers in the 'these people are undesirable' box or the '"away" from us' box. Or am I missing the point of the OP?

amacca

Bassfish wrote: »

I had a convesation with my mother recently where she said, 'that generation of Germans in the 30's and 40's must all have been evil!

yeah to an extent its nurture not nature

Bassfish wrote: »

I said, of course they weren't evil, they were rational people like us, indoctrinated, coerced and forced into a set of beliefs that allowed them to justify and rationalise anti-semitism and hatred of anyone who wasn't Aryan.

agree with you there

Bassfish wrote: »

We don't like to think we have anything in common with people that do bad things but the truth is we are all 99% the same and it's just that 1% that separates us.

but for the grace of god go I cept this guy wasnt indoctrinated was he....seemed to be acting alone

Perhaps he would have gravitated to whatever extreme right wing stuff was out there no matter what

does that 1% difference if these are the results not make him insane?

Fremen

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

After all the killing in Oslo it would seem it is better to think of the guy as mentally disturbed/ill

So after listening to the radio debate on it today where people were saying he is sick in the head someone said that once gay people were seen as sick and suffering some mental disease but now they are OK and if you think that gay people are not normal you are sick in the head.

It made me think that we like to put people we don't understand into boxes that we consider "away" from us.

Do you put people in boxes or are you very open minded?

I consider myself very open minded.

You?

It's a means of explaining behaviour that is inexplicable. Why'd he commit an atrocity? It's because he's <box>.

<box> requires no further explanation. It could be "evil" or "mentally ill" or whatever.

Lame analogy with the homosexuality thing, by the way. You shoulda put a bit more thought into that.

Wolfe Tone

You mean wooden boxes, coffins?

usernamegoes

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Insane, psychotic or "clean" minded - whatever you like to call it - he should be kept away from society for the rest of his life in a dark isolated cell somewhere in the fjords of Northern Norway.

I agree, for the most part.

K-9

I fecking knew it, David Norris is one of those serial killers and mass murderers as well as a paediatrician.

amacca

if insane = not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged.

then Anders Behring Breiveik = insane...in my mind.

if being classified as being insane allows him to escape with a less distressing (for him) punishment......then, despite misgivings I would be relatively happy to have him called the most reasonable sane person on Earth if that means he is punished properly.

mikom

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

Why do we like to put bad people in "boxes"

What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of fuckin' assholes.
You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be?

You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie.

Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!

SeanW

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

It made me think that we like to put people we don't understand into boxes that we consider "away" from us.

Do you put people in boxes or are you very open minded?

I consider myself very open minded.

You?

So do I, but I find it odd that you put "open minded" and "put people in boxes" as exclusive alternatives, as though there is not an appropriate time and place for both.

My own philosophy is that of libertarianism, or "live and let live" and that's my absolute red line.
If someone does not give me cause to judge them harshly by crossing this line, I will not judge them or "put them" in any "box." Any quirks or problems or minor issues etc I will put down to "it takes all kinds to make a varied world."

If however a person crosses that red line for ANY reason, like that piece of human trash in Norway, or a local scumbag who abuses old people, sets cars on fire for fun, tortures animals etc, or indeed someone who tries to impose a religious or nanny state agenda on people through legislation,

then I'm going to judge them very harshly, and I don't see a problem with "putting them in boxes" which, while undesirable, is both justified and proper.

wonderfulname

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

After all the killing in Oslo it would seem it is better to think of the guy as mentally disturbed/ill

Have you read his manifesto? He clearly is.

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

So after listening to the radio debate on it today where people were saying he is sick in the head someone said that once gay people were seen as sick and suffering some mental disease but now they are OK and if you think that gay people are not normal you are sick in the head.

Poor analogy, that is the result of greater scientific understanding, not political correctness.

It is human nature to put people in boxes however, regardless of how good or bad we perceive them to be. It's not down to lack of understanding, or conservatism, it's just what we do. We group people by where they're from, religious beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, political/sporting affiliation, regardless of the fact that in all probability these aspects of their character/interests have little influence on the individual. So long as you recognise that fact it's fine, the only problem with categorising people as such occurs when you attribute characteristics to the individual based on group stereotypes.

The Left Hand Of God

wonderfulname wrote: »

. Poor analogy, that is the result of greater scientific understanding, not political correctness.

Really? Can you link me to some of those studies as I have to admit I can't recall any scientific understanding, as you put it. I'd like to read up and educate myself.

Thanks.

take everything

Mousey- wrote: »

yes because in 20 years time mass murders will be much more understood and maybe, just maybe, will be accepted by our bigoted society

Serial killer pride marches would be fcuking great though.

wonderfulname

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

Really? Can you link me to some of those studies as I have to admit I can't recall any scientific understanding, as you put it. I'd like to read up and educate myself.

Thanks.

...the American Psychiatric Association removed "homosexuality" from its list of mental disorders, stating that "homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities" (American Psychiatric Association, 1974)...
The decision to remove homosexual orientation from the list of mental disorders reflects extensive research conducted over three decades showing that homosexual orientation is not a psychological maladjustment (Gonsiorek, 1991; Hart, Roback, Tittler, Weitz, Walston, & McKee, 1978; Reiss, 1980). There is no reliable evidence that homosexual orientation per se impairs psychological functioning...

APA, had that report close to hand from another thread, will see if I can find you actual studies though. From a modern position such studies aren't exactly seen as PC so they're kinda shoved under the carpet, people don't like to think we needed proof, ironically that quietness seems to have people questioning the validity of the declassification and putting it down to political correctness and nothing more.