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Roscommon Hospital and the lack of people who care

veryangryman

This one has made the news so i was surprised that it wasnt mentioned on boards in any forum.

If we are to judge this purely by boardsies interest, it seems that the political will just is not there to keep the services open.

Me, i think Ballinasloe/Galway is close enough as an alternative, assuming that its own A&E is resourced properly (which i doubt but there you go).

Mods feel free to move this. In the interim, id like to hear general views on it from those outside Roscommon

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angelfire9

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Main+St%2FN61&daddr=Main+St,+Ballinasloe,+Co.+Galway,+Ireland+to:B%C3%B3thar+na+dTreabh%2FN6+to:Ballinrobe+Rd%2FN84+to:Bundoran+Rd%2FN4+to:N61&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=53.673934,-8.421021&spn=1.636766,7.03125&sll=53.537043,-8.146362&sspn=1.642079,4.938354&geocode=FUJWMgMdEgeD_w%3BFezCLQMdxZCC_ykjqDm90WlcSDFgazmGno3Pxw%3BFVYfLQMdEH92_w%3BFbKDNQMdTjZy_w%3BFVovPAMdtKV-_w%3BFaClLwMdIAqG_w&mra=mi&mrsp=5&sz=8&t=h&z=8

Hope this link works!
So the hospital closes in Roscommon, there is Sligo, Castlebar, Galway, Ballinasloe and Athlone all within reasonable distance of most of Roscommon county
(depending of course on what part of roscommon you live in)

Now
For comparison purposes say you live at point A on this map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=52.603048,-9.84375&daddr=High+Rd%2FN7&hl=en&sll=52.736292,-7.904663&sspn=1.67297,4.938354&geocode=FaioIgMd2stp_w%3BFRSxIwMdZkt8_w&mra=mr&t=h&z=8
It will (according to AA roadwatch) take you 2 hours and 32 minutes to get to A&E in Limerick

If you live on Point A in this map http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Miltown+Malbay,+Ireland&daddr=Galway,+Ireland+to:52.85905,-9.40478+to:Ennis+Rd%2FN7&hl=en&sll=52.927119,-8.731384&sspn=0.832818,2.469177&geocode=FQl5JgMdZpJw_ylVEj2P0gJbSDGgnjGXqccACg%3BFcXkLAMdfOF1_yn_Wy1alZNbSDGBUkkKRBsrAw%3BFaqQJgMdlH5w_ynBRvbr3AJbSDGRNUP8pscAEw%3BFd60IwMdNsx7_w&mra=dpe&mrsp=2&sz=9&via=2&t=h&z=9 it will take you an hour and a half to get to Galway if you are going by private car by ambulance you go to Limerick which is 105km on crappy roads which AA ireland optimistically predict will take you 1 hour, 40 minutes

Rawhead

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What about a dedicated helicopter-ambulance?

Maybe based at knock?

No?

I've been thinking the exact same thing. Why is it not even being mentioned as it would get people to a major trauma centre in the golden hour and still cost a fraction of a single A+E. It could cover all of Connaught.

Celly Smunt

whats the big deal? it's only roscommon at the end of the day

mikom

Rawhead wrote: »

it would get people to a major trauma centre in the golden hour

*patient dies in transit*

"Ah, they just didn't suit ya"

waxon-waxoff

This is just the start, over the next few months many more small hospitals are going to lose services which will be concentrated in bigger hospitals. It costs too much to keep a full range of services where theres a small population and not enough patients. Fine Gael are getting abuse now and its their own fault, they didnt need to promise anything, they would have won the election by a landslide anyway.

Its also worth mentioning that many people in Roscommon didnt trust the hospital and asked their doctors to send them to Galway or Castlebar instead for treatment.

steve9859

Birmingham has 4 accident and emergency units (according to Newstalk today), and has the same population as Ireland

We just cannot have A&Es everywhere. We do not have the resources and unfortunately that is an undeniable fact.

I heard people on the radio today saying that it is their right to live in rural areas and be provided effective services. I'm sorry, but that is not a right! If you are concerned you should move to an urban area (not that some urban hospitals are great right now either!!). There is no other way. The problem with Ireland with regard to services is the geographical area over which the small population is spread.

The closure of many rural services is inevitable. FG messed up by making stupid promises in an election they were going to win anyway.

Kevin Duffy

steve9859 wrote: »

Birmingham has 4 accident and emergency units (according to Newstalk today), and has the same population as Ireland

We just cannot have A&Es everywhere. We do not have the resources and unfortunately that is an undeniable fact.

I heard people on the radio today saying that it is their right to live in rural areas and be provided effective services. I'm sorry, but that is not a right! If you are concerned you should move to an urban area (not that some urban hospitals are great right now either!!). There is no other way. The problem with Ireland with regard to services is the geographical area over which the small population is spread.

The closure of many rural services is inevitable. FG messed up by making stupid promises in an election they were going to win anyway.

In a much smaller area than Ireland, so not a valid comparison in any way. Comparison with parts of Scotland, or the English Lake District would be more valid.

People do of course have a right to live in a rural area and be provided for fairly. They pay the same taxes, so they have a right to the same services. As it is, people in rural areas don't get the same access to public transport, just to pick one benefit that they pay towards. To suggest that everyone should just up and move to the city is, frankly, ridiculous.

steve9859

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

In a much smaller area than Ireland, so not a valid comparison in any way. Comparison with parts of Scotland, or the English Lake District would be more valid.

People do of course have a right to live in a rural area and be provided for fairly. They pay the same taxes, so they have a right to the same services. As it is, people in rural areas don't get the same access to public transport, just to pick one benefit that they pay towards. To suggest that everyone should just up and move to the city is, frankly, ridiculous.

I was making the point that the population in Ireland is too spread to provide services "at every crossroads" (as one member of the Dail said today). We cant afford it and that is a fact.

I am not suggesting that everyone should move to the city (you are putting words in my mouth there), but if you are at risk of needing A&E or other specialist hospital services, and are particularly concerned, then maybe you should.

I disagree with you as to the right of people to live in the sticks and get the same services, since 'per head' the cost is astronomical. It is the price that is paid for the priviledge of living in a more pleasant rural environment

Kevin Duffy

steve9859 wrote: »

I am not suggesting that everyone should move to the city (you are putting words in my mouth there), but if you are at risk of needing A&E or other specialist hospital services, and are particularly concerned, then maybe you should.

You sure about that?

steve9859 wrote: »

I heard people on the radio today saying that it is their right to live in rural areas and be provided effective services. I'm sorry, but that is not a right! If you are concerned you should move to an urban area

And A&E is not a specialist service, it's primary healthcare, a basic human right.

ntlbell

maybe if the PS wage bill was largely reduced they could keep it.

i doubt many ps workers be offering to give up much for their "colleagues"

steve9859

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

You sure about that?

yes. Im saying if you are high risk then maybe you should. That isnt 'everyone'!

WaltKowalski

Where is the A+E in Athlone that's been mentioned a few times on this thread?

WaltKowalski

And it's thought that the Ballinasloe A+E unit won't be long for closing after Roscommon.

Kevin Duffy

steve9859 wrote: »

yes. Im saying if you are high risk then maybe you should. That isnt 'everyone'!

Needing an A&E is not high risk. It's for, eh, accidents and emergencies.

efb

Is the cardiac arrest mortality rate higher in Ros Gen?

Dont the specialised EMT units have a better success rate?

That reminds me about people in offaly who whinge about not having a maternity ward? Why? is it not better to to have centralised centres of excellence than a hospital with a bit of everything in every county????

Why does being a county entitle you to have a hospital?

mickydoomsux

ntlbell wrote: »

maybe if the PS wage bill was largely reduced they could keep it.

i doubt many ps workers be offering to give up much for their "colleagues"

So cut some workers and we'll have the money saved to give to the workers we just fired to so they can run the A&E department we had to close because we didn't have the money or staff to run it?

steve9859

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Needing an A&E is not high risk. It's for, eh, accidents and emergencies.

And, eh, some people are more likely to need emergency services than others. We just can't justify an A&E to cater for every rural dweller who might have a heart attack or stroke

As an earlier poster said, maybe more air ambulances is the answer

drkpower

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

And A&E is not a specialist service, it's primary healthcare, a basic human right.

A&E does not exist in a vacumn however. Serious trauma cases cannot be properly managed without orthopaedics/trauma surgery/vascular surgery. Cardiac emergencies cannot be managed without cardiac specialists. And so on.

Even if you one accepts that A&E is not a specialist service (which is incorrect) the latter certainly are.

Kevin Duffy

drkpower wrote: »

A&E does not exist in a vacumn however. Serious trauma cases cannot be properly managed without orthopaedics/trauma surgery/vascular surgery. Cardiac emergencies cannot be managed without cardiac specialists. And so on.

Even if you one accepts that A&E is not a specialist service (which is incorrect) the latter certainly are.

Yeh, see, it isn't a specialist service and just saying it is doesn't make it true. Primary health care is a basic human right according to the UDHR, of which Ireland is a signatory. A&E is primary health care - walk-in, emergency care, often life-saving.

Trauma cases are frequently managed initially by local A&E services, then transferred for specialist care - off the top of my head, only Dublin and Cork would offer neurology and spinal care (see what I did there??) - so you break your back in Sligo or Galway, get local care to support you, then transfer to Dublin for specialist services, so the existence of A&e is not dependent on the location of higher level care. This is obviously a paraphrase, but you get the point.

drkpower

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Yeh, see, it isn't a specialist service and just saying it is doesn't make it true. Primary health care is a basic human right according to the UDHR, of which Ireland is a signatory. A&E is primary health care - walk-in, emergency care, often life-saving..

Ask any emergency medicine physician; it certainly is a specialist service. And primary health care has a multitude of definitions deoending on context; but it usual refers to services provided predominantly by GPs, as well as by practice nurses, primary/community health care nurses, community pharmacists etc.

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Trauma cases are frequently managed initially by local A&E services, then transferred for specialist care - off the top of my head, only Dublin and Cork would offer neurology and spinal care (see what I did there??) - so you break your back in Sligo or Galway, get local care to support you, then transfer to Dublin for specialist services, so the existence of A&e is not dependent on the location of higher level care. This is obviously a paraphrase, but you get the point.

Transferring multiple trauma cases prior to vascular/trauma/orthopaedic surgery involvement is very often not possible. An A&E service without access to basic cardiac procedures (such as stenting) is unsafe.

An A&E service without appropriate support is not really worthy of the name.

angelfire9

efb wrote: »

Is the cardiac arrest mortality rate higher in Ros Gen?

Dont the specialised EMT units have a better success rate?

That reminds me about people in offaly who whinge about not having a maternity ward? Why? is it not better to to have centralised centres of excellence than a hospital with a bit of everything in every county????

Why does being a county entitle you to have a hospital?

Clare hasn't had maternity services in the county in 20 years or more (not exactly sure when it went it was there in the 70's)

See this story from 2009:

The Government withdrew maternity services from Clare in the 1980s and each year a number of births take place on the roadside involving mothers who do not make it in time to Limerick or Galway. Caroline Gallagher gave birth to Molly in the front seat of a car on the Loop Head peninsula on April 7 last. She was the second-known baby born on the roadside in west Clare within an eight-week period. Mr Gallagher said: "Molly was born in Clare and that should be the official record."

Cllr Brian Meaney claimed that it is a deliberate policy by the HSE not to record the roadside birth figures by mothers en route to Limerick as it would increase the pressure on the executive to restore maternity services at Ennis in Clare

Source: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/father-angry-as-roadside-baby-recorded-in-wrong-county-1688463.html

I live in Ennis which is according to AA Roadwatch is 36 minutes from the Limerick Maternity, try driving that in the freezing weather we had last winter (i went into labour at 4am it was great fun)

And people in West & East Clare have it far worse than I

For Roscommon folk I guess the maternity hospitals are Sligo, Ballinasloe and Galway??
(Not sure if Castlebar have maternity but I'm betting they do seeing as it is Enda's constituency)

squod

Is cost the issue? I hear it's the recruitment (and immigration) of trained of junior doctors that is causing this problem. Not sure what FG can do about that and why they promised the retention of services in Rosscommon in the first place. It's not like this is a new phenomenon.

Podge_irl

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Its a joke and the simple fact is people will die or end up disabled because of this.

People most likely die or end up disabled from going to Roscommon instead of travelling to get to Galway.

Not only is it expensive and inefficient to have full A&E services in small regional hospitals there, but the doctors in these hospitals generally see fewer cases, have less experience and have far less expertise.

LETHAL LADY

Can someone tell me if the hospitals that will take on any extra emergency cases from Roscommon A&E are now fully staffed and equipped to do so?

NTMK

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Can someone tell me if the hospitals that will take on any extra emergency cases from Roscommon A&E are now fully staffed and equipped to do so?

Not a chance of ballinasloe being able to.one of the worst run hospitals in the country imo :mad:

ntlbell

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So cut some workers and we'll have the money saved to give to the workers we just fired to so they can run the A&E department we had to close because we didn't have the money or staff to run it?

You're obviously not running your own business then.

Firstly, you don't need to "cut some workers". I said reduce the wage bill. They're numerous ways to do this.

Don't bother applying for dragons den.

GerM

According to James Reilly this morning, cardiac emergencies attending Roscommon are four times more likely to die than if they were attending Galway. That's an astounding statistic. Will people die due to there not being an A&E in close proximity? Unfortunately, the answer is quite likely to be yes. Will lives be saved by people being forced to attend a hospital that can adequately facilitate the cases it receives? Again, yes and possibly more than will die as a result of having to travel further. I know it's not particularly fair to the people that are directly affected and the quality of their service for standard A&E cases may drop but with the facts involved, Roscommon A&E cannot be justified.

phill106

stovelid wrote: »

Mikom got in there first, Phil.

Dam my use of correct spelling, slowed me right down!

Opelfruit

efb wrote: »

Why does being a county entitle you to have a hospital?

Who ever said that? As I've said already Roscommon Hospital's catchement area covers north east Galway. This issue is met with complete silence by Galway East TDs.

Fozzie Bear

Podge_irl wrote: »

People most likely die or end up disabled from going to Roscommon instead of travelling to get to Galway.

That's so dumb my face actually hurts from reading it. I swear to God I have a pain in my face. It is a mind bogglingly stupid statement.

I am involved in a car crash, or fall off a ladder, or have a heart attack in a town like say Tulsk or Frenchpark in central Roscommon. You are telling me I am in more danger from a 30 minute ambulance trip to A&E in Roscommon town then an hour and 30 minute (minimum) trip to the outskirts of Galway city and another possible 30 minute drive across the city through traffic to UCHG? Once there i can expect massive further delays as their A&E is already working far beyond its capacity.

Could you explain how that works to me please?? How I would be better off going to Galway and how Roscommon is more dangerous? I honestly cannot wait for your reasoning and logic behind this.

Enlighten me.......