RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

dbcool wrote: »

not sniff in NEWTOWNABBEY !
trying my new hughes ka lnb with td110 triax and doing a blind scan with a spiderbox hd on 9e - not a sniff of saorsat - have trieD the 2 transponders manually but nothing at all! i will keep trying already been at it for 3 hours but looks like the ka spot bEams are super tight!

Hmmmm

Doesn't look encouraging.

Will obviously have to wait for the increase in power and removal of the northern restriction from Clermont Cairn, or the NI mini mux from either Carnmoney Hill or Divis (?) at the end of next year (?)

Unless it actually is switched off.

Will be interested to see if you get anything after the 20th dbcool !

In Newtownabbey as well (Jordanstown). Perfect analogue signals.

11996 = 11146 since tone on/off is meaningless.

(subtract 10600, add 9750)
or 20146 (subtract 10600, add 18750) which is 19 MHz out.

It was a Ferguson Ariva on Blind scan. However it makes no sense to me either.

19MHz is a long ways out, for any blindscanner. When I blindscanned with an Edision in April (which shares most of its hardware with the Ferguson), the frequency returned was bang on the money.

19MHz out won't work... so I don't know what the story is. Maybe the DRO is off on the Hughes LNB or there was a non-standard LO set on the Ferguson box.

For non-sky DVB-S2 I have only S3200 Technotrend.

I'm not available to look at this last few days or today sadly.

dbcool wrote: »

i'll try again tomorrow!

Any luck?

By right, the Azbox settings for Modulation should be DVB-S2/QPSK, rather than DVB-S2/8PSK, but it doesn't seem to matter on the Azbox (the tuning is a POS in that receiver).

I also did a blindscan as a test with the Azbox using a Universal LNB setting and it picked up the channels at 11185MHz (thought the FEC was incorrectly reported as 5/6).

marclt

Judging by those maps, it looks like a lot of western wales will be included in the RTE saorsat coverage area.

The Welsh coast, not a lot of Wales, maybe a bit better than big aerials. Where the Calais or Scottish spot signal is equal to Irish (the red lines) you are already far too far out from Irish Spot.

Apogee wrote: »

I also did a blindscan as a test with the Azbox using a Universal LNB setting and it picked up the channels at 11185MHz (thought the FEC was incorrectly reported as 5/6).

11185MHz is what I'd expect.

11185 - 9750 (Ku LO) = 1435
1435 + 18750 (Ka LO) = 20185

Is it possible they might have been testing 5/6 just then?

If dbcool can't get anything in newtownabbey then I've no hope.

Is the transponder currently broadcasting a signal ? Is dbcool doing someing wrong with his set up ?

Just curious.

Would be nice to be able to put my old Sky dish to some sort of use. Hopefully, it wont be a waste of time.

after another few hours play today - still nadda!
one of two things
the beam is super tight! or the lnb is faulty

if someone who is curently getting saorsat would like to help me - i could post them my lnb and they could check to see if its working - ( it is brand new ) alternativley is there a way i can test it myself?

mind you i see need to get my friend with the spectrum round!

dbcool wrote: »

after another few hours play today - still nadda!
one of two things
the beam is super tight! or the lnb is faulty

if someone who is curently getting saorsat would like to help me - i could post them my lnb and they could check to see if its working - ( it is brand new ) alternativley is there a way i can test it myself?

mind you i see need to get my friend with the spectrum round!

Where abouts roughly in Newtownabbey are you located dbcool ?

I'm in Jordanstown (off the Jordanstown road above the level crossing i.e. near st. Patricks church) and get a perfect analogue picture from Clermont Cairn so, no doubt, I should get reasonable Saorview when the power is increased and the northern restriction removed next year, as well as the new mini RTE mux from Carnmoney Hill (and Divis ?).

Was interested in Saorsat as I reckoned it might be a good alternative especially if I ever ditch Sky. I'll be interested to hear what the guys suggest as I'm not that tech. savy when it comes to this type of satellite and LNB (it's an LNB F that you need, right ?). All these tech. abreviations are double dutch to me.

For example what is a DiSEqC, what does it do, how do you instal and set it up, why do you need it for the Ka band etc. etc.

Just a pity the whole thing wasn't soft encrypted at 28.2 degrees E, but I know, we've discussed all this before and it can't (or is far too expensive) be done.

A simple demonstration video on Youtube would be very, very helpful ! What about guys ?

dbcool wrote: »

if someone who is curently getting saorsat would like to help me - i could post them my lnb and they could check to see if its working - ( it is brand new ) alternativley is there a way i can test it myself?

Have you tried a signal meter? Are you registering an increase in signal when the dish is positioned on either 13E or 9E?

I can test the LNB but the probability is that it's fine anyway. I would strongly recommend getting your friend with the spectrum analyzer round - you should have it working in 10 mins.

watty wrote: »

Is it possible they might have been testing 5/6 just then?

No, the software on the Azbox is all over the place.

is the test loop working today before i ruin fathers day looking for it ?

currrent state of play
( still no meter )

when i pop off the ka lnb and put the ku back on - i dont move the dish at all - and just bling scan 9e and every transponder comes in 100%

i have fashioned an lnb holdr from another triax dish so i can just pop it off and on but still when i put the ka lnb back on - and blind scan still nothing - the signl level reaches a peak at the start of the scan at around 70% but falls to 64% at its lowest signal level -

can't see whats wrong at all and still waiting for the loan meter - but i know my dish is 100% on 9e.

Alignment is 4x more critical on Ka than Ku and exact position of LNB is very very critical according to Gerry.

We have had a sort of personal family crisis here, so I have not been able to look in the last week. Maybe the coming week I will have time.

dbcool wrote: »

currrent state of play
( still no meter )

Get a meter. As you're using a 110cm dish on Ka-band, you need to be precise with the positioning of the LNB. The margin for error is tight.

dbcool wrote: »

is the test loop working today before i ruin fathers day looking for it ?

Yes, but if you don't have a meter, you'll have ruined father's day with nothing to show for it.

rlogue

So in short Saorsat will not be as simple as setting up a dish for Astra2/Eurobird then. Good news for the trade but if I were Woodys or B&Q there won't be much point in stocking DIY Saorsat kits.

110cm is not typical size. The bigger the dish the harder to point. Even on Ku you really need a decent meter for 110cm or you spend a lot of time.

A 65cm ka dish would be like aligning a 90cm ku dish.
A consumer kit will have a proper feed. Aligning a bare LNB with no proper bracket and no feed horn is harder anyway.

Many DIY dish installs are poor and often signal is lost in rain.

Given that Saorsat is for the approx 5% that won't get Saorview I hardly think B&Q or Woodies will stock anyway. Given the poor quality of Dunnes, Lidl, B&Q and Aldi mount + Dish and fact none of these are proper freesat but cheap generic receivers, it will be doing the public a service if they don't stock. Actually a lot of the Maplin stuff isn't much good either, though they do sell Freesat and Freesat HD boxes and some good dishes (usually over priced).

Realistically DIY sat is possible, but it's much more DIY skill than aerial or light fitting install.

rlogue

I would probably describe myself as a keen amateur with just enough skill to successfully set up a motorised dish and leave enough margin of error for heavy rain. Certainly Ku band is relatively easy for me to set up even using a cheap meter.

Obviously the larger the dish the critical it gets regarding positioning. So far how large will the "typical" dish need to be in Dublin and North Donegal?

Unofficially Officially 65cm for anywhere in Ireland. Which is about as hard to align as 90cm to110cm Ku. Because the dish gain (i.e. beam angle smaller) is quadrupled when you double the frequency. Ka dish has to be pointed nearly twice as accurately.

Possibly less if they keep the current parameters. QPSK and FEC 1/2 is VERY robust for DVB-S2.

Having a proper LNBF and mount will make it much easier.

In the future the majority of Satellite will be ka band

up coming ka Band launches
http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/ka.html

Astra 2E, Astra 2F and Astra 2G all for 28.2E

Unofficially Officially 65cm for anywhere in Ireland

I assume that includes Norn' Iron as well as the ROI Watty ?

I'd not assume that.

would this be the meter of choice for ka sat?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Acutrac-III-3-Plus-Satellite-Finder-Meter-New-HDTV-/320673554370?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa9a21fc2

I think that meter is for proprietary DirecTv and would be a bad purchase.

Any meter which displays not just level (nearly useless with modern high output LNBs, especially that have inbuilt AGC) but Eb/No or BER etc for DVB-S2 as well as DVB-S.

Also very useful is Spectrum analyser for 950MHz to 2100MHz built in.

The most important aspect is "quality" (BER, Eb/No, SNR etc) on a DVB-S2 signal as well as DVB-S. Ka Band isn't relevant. Diseqc switching feature is important but not mandatory as you can disconnect feed between the Diseqc switch and LNB. Monobloc feeds with internal Diseqc are designed for particular markets and dish models (i.e. Mainland western Europe 23.5 + 19, 19+13 or 13+9 or US DirecTv). Monobloc or Duo feed LNBFs with two horns and internal Diseqc should never be deployed in Ireland. The horn spacing will be wrong.

There is no difference for Ka or Ku in Europe as the IF frequency bands are the same.

DirecTV is a proprietary system with non-standard IF.

rlogue

watty wrote: »

I'd not assume that.

Considering Malin Head and much of Inishowen is further north than NI it would be particularly embarrassing if Saorsat didn't actually reach the north of the whole island of Ireland...

The beam is at an angle. It's seems much stronger in Donegal than Co.Antrim.

Malin head and all of Donegal appear to be in the service area (which is NOT a sharp boundary).

Red lines show points at which a Signal with identical parmeters from two different spots are equal. As you move from lines towards Irish spot the unwanted signal is decreasing and wanted signal increasing quickly, so likely Co. Antrim is fine. If the spot is accurate then Overspill to IOM, All Anglesea, West Wales and Cornwall is very nice

North East Antrim coast and South West Cork coast are both just slightly outside the purple area. Maybe need 70cm to 80cm. Or maybe 65cm is fine and inside purple area only needs 44cm. We don't know.

However the East Scotland spot is now same as Irish and Calais French spot instead of the same as Wales/Cornwall, presumably to allow people in parts of North West England to use Welsh/Cornish or East Scotland spot and also further limit Irish spot Coverage in Scotland and North of England.

There is no question that a reasonable size dish will work for all of Island of Ireland and smaller dish for Ireland (Republic), though some question about Ballycastle coast area, Co.Antrim area vs East Scotland signal, but likely OK.

QPSK FEC 1/2 is a very robust signal. I'm curious as to rain margin on 44cm dish or even 30cm in most of Ireland.

dbcool wrote: »

would this be the meter of choice for ka sat?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Acutrac-III-3-Plus-Satellite-Finder-Meter-New-HDTV-/320673554370?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa9a21fc2

No. 'Meter of choice' is entirely dependent on budget - what's your spend limit?

still nothing

using a prodig 5 - nothing still - i am in mallusk - and i really think i can't get this! - i've gave the lnb to my mate in ballymena and he's gonna try tonight so -we could really do with some more meter pics -we just can't get a loc at all!