What is a female point of view/perspective?
ok I know the last thing you want is another TLL debate but please hear me out, I'd just like to clarify it once and for all so the issue doesn't keep cropping up again. Please don't feel threatened or besieged, I don't in any way question tll's right to exist, I just want to re-examine the wording in the charter which is fundamentally flawed in my view and if tidied up will hopefully bring these endless debates to an end.
I had a look at the looked thread about the ladies lounge and a few posters were questioning the ethos of the forum and a lot of the replies were "what's so hard to understand?, guys are welcome but the charter says the forum is for posts from a female point of view/perspective".
I don't understand that. It sounds as if females have a uniform view/perspective on things which couldn't be further from the truth. For discussions of physiological stuff that are uniquely female then fair enough, I'm not demanding the right to wade in there to offer advice on bra choices and the like.
Let me say, before I continue, that I have no problem with the ladies lounge right to exist or having for example, a forum that is for the discussion of women's issues or feminist issues (still a general term but at least more specific than the mindboggling "female perspective"). I posted there many times in the past, didn't run into any more trouble there than I have in other fora (usually due to my, at times admittedly abrasive, opinionated, one-eyed and blunt posting style). Indeed I have to say whenever any issues did arise there or if I was unhappy about something - Silverfish dealt with in an even-handed manner so fair play to her. I have to say I enjoyed posting there although it usually ended up with me arguing with the same 10-12 block of posters who dominate in there (not being critical of that phenomenon, it is a reality of most internet fora) so in the end I decided to stop posting there as there is only so many times one can have the same argument.
I think another poster mentioned that women in general prefer a more sharing, non-argumentative, empathetic discourse and men tend to be more aggressive and competitive debaters. To be honest I think that's horse**** and the tone and force of one's debate is usually to be measured by how much you agree with the argument. Thus, if everybody is, more or less of the same political viewpoint then naturally things will be gentle and calm. Some in the ladies lounge might perceive me to be a pain in the hole because I used to get involved there when I thought men (yes and unfortunately by implication that means me as I belong to that subgroup) were being unfairly represented. However put me in the Liverpool thread with my like-minded Liverpool fans or in the indie/music thread with my fellow hipsters and I'm a teddy bear (most of the time:)). The point being that it's not our gender that determines the ferocity of our debate, it's how much the debate provokes us. I think the ladies have the right to vent about whatever they please but all I would say is that if they vent about men in a generalised way then I reserve the right to jump in if I feel something unfair has been said. It's not personal, say something nasty about Munster or Liverpool or Ireland or Radiohead or whatever and no doubt I'll jump in too. Usually the debate was allowed to take place in tll which was great but often I see posters complaining that they don't want their views questioned (they'll use terms like dismissed, ridiculed, torn to shreds, mocked) which I think is dangerous and can lead to a groupthink siege mentality - possibly this has already occurred and the men who genuinely ridicule the ladies lounge and those posters within tll who pander to the whole "safe place" nonsense which is insulting to women in my view, are both to blame - have the discussion and expose the idiots, simple as that. I'd also disagree with those that say Tll and Tgc operate on a similar basis. I think Tgc is generally more welcoming of female posters and tolerant of views that differ from the prevailing view. For example I don't recall even one example of a poster being told in tgc "tgc is for issues from a male perspective, please read the charter etc etc". However Tgc doesn't have the same feeling of being under siege in a male-dominated enviroment as tll does so i can understand tll's position without necessarily always agreeing with the action they take.
Anyway whatever about the rights and wrongs of it, I mean I am sure tllers are tired of debates about the rationale behind the forum (reason why you guys are questioned more than most is simply because gender issues apply to a far greater number of us than say golf or christianity), the only question I am really asking here relates to the whole "female perspective/point of view thing".
I have many female friends and lovers and each of them, delightfully and not extraordinarily at all usually has a different perspective and point of view to whatever issue/point/argument is being discussed.
What's my point? To narrow down one's point of view perspective to be based on gender is, in my view, a quite reductionist, lazy, close-minded and foolish thing to do.
What is a female perspective? For god's sake that's a contradiction in terms, a perspective is by it's very definition, an individual thing
Women A might think he should pay the restaurant bill
Women B might think they should pay halves
Women C might think she should pay it all
Women D might think they should run away before the bill arrive and spend the money on booze instead
Any man might agree with any of women a, b, c or d
Where is the female perspective there? How do I know if I am agreeing or disagreeing with it ffs? Or if I am respecting the charter or somehow breaking it? Ludicrous stuff
My advice would be to come clean and say
1. females only (hard to enforce but make the ruling anyway)
or
2. change female perspective to feminist perspective (two completely different things by the way)
By doing this, all misunderstanding will be done away with. I hope I've helped.
