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The Bagel Factory

branie

I hear it's closed now. What exactly happened for it to cease trading?

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CheltenhamJ

location not ideal i would have thought

Lady Chatterton

I visited Ennis during the Fleadh Nua weekend. As someone who grew up in Ennis I was really sad to see how many businesses have closed down. The council really need to get their act together, they should look at the rates they are charging business and their parking charges. I also feel that rents needs to be more realistic, it would appear that some people renting out business units are still charging Celtic Tiger rents.

Lady Chatterton

branie wrote: »

I hear it's closed now. What exactly heppend for it to cease trading?

My money is on the rent and rates being too high.

dr.fuzzenstein

MrsD007 wrote: »

I visited Ennis during the Fleadh Nua weekend. As someone who grew up in Ennis I was really sad to see how many businesses have closed down. The council really need to get their act together, they should look at the rates they are charging business and their parking charges. I also feel that rents needs to be more realistic, it would appear that some people renting out business units are still charging Celtic Tiger rents.

Rents may come down, however it was said on Matt Cooper that a lot of premises that are owned by conglomerates won't be cutting rent, as this will affect the bookvalue of the premise and the investors won't like it.
So it'll be cheaper for them to have an empty building, but have a high value on it and the corresponding rent.
A lot of landlords are also not allowed by their bank to cut rent, only increase it, a hangover from Celtic Tiger days, when we where told things would only ever go up and up and up, forever and ever and ever...(makes you wonder if these things are run by chimps or six year olds)
As for rates, a million quid and my left nut says they're going up in the near future.
The reason?
Rates paid have dropped dramatically, so, as it is taught in Irish economics (uniquely in the entire world BTW), you need to increase rates to make up for lost income.
The current situation needs fresh thinking, flexibility, a new approach, intelligence and thinking outside the box (yes, cliché).
That's us goosed then...

Kilnababe

Rates was a tax to pay for services provided:

1. Refuse Collection
2. Water
3. Fire Service
4. Street Cleaning
5. Street Lighting

The first 3 above would have comprised the majority of the local authorities outgoings, but these services are all paid for directly now.
The problem is that local authorities are grossly over staffed and their employees over paid and businesses are expected to cough up for these public servants. How many people were made redundant from the Planning office as a result of the collapse of the building sector. Until the varying degrees of unnecessary middle and senior management in the local authorities and the HSE are drastically reduced at whatever cost this country will not be able to live within it's means.

Hawk Wing 2

Kilnababe wrote: »

How many people were made redundant from the Planning office as a result of the collapse of the building sector.

Exactly, I wonder what all those Engineers and Planners spend their day doing, now that there is basically zero construction activity in Clare, all these public service lads wanted to be treated the same as the private sector when things were good with benchmarking and all that malarkey, they should also feel the pain when things are like they are now

CptSternn

While we are on the subject they could work on the tax code as well. One good thing here in Clare and in other counties is the Enterprise Board. I have taken a few courses they have offered here in Ennis and all have been very good and very informative. I took a four week course on starting your own business a couple years ago and we spent a lot of time on costs, which included rates and rent and they said pretty much what has been said above about how they are killing local business across the country but there is little that can be done right now thanks to the law.

We also discussed the tax code which in my opinion is equally insane. If anyone doesn't know, in Ireland businesses pay tax in October, for the whole year. Most shops do 60% or more of their business in the month of December alone. Basically businesses are forced to pay up front for sales they haven't even done for months in advance. Failure to pay enough means you can be hit with hefty fines. You have to guess what you are going to sell and then pay tax on that amount out of your own pocket and guessing incorrectly means you will pay more.

How is this a good way to govern businesses? Small businesses in their first year are encouraged to open in December as to avoid getting hit with a huge tax bill before they can even afford it. That means anyone looking to open a business has to wait months before they undertake the task, else face bankruptcy before they even get to December.

It is all based on business ideas that were written in decades far past that are in no way relevant to how business is conducted in todays real world marketplace, much like the rates and the way rent is calculated.

I find it hard to believe there will be any solutions to our current economic crisis until the local as well as national government do an overhaul of these three things. Right now small businesses are struggling and it is financial suicide to even think about opening a small business in todays current situation.

I am still looking for a space in Ennis town for a business, I won't say for what, but the most recent place I heard about was the Poundsworth shop you know right in the market a couple doors down from JD's Coffeehouse. They want €2,000 a month for rent, and the rates are almost as dear. Seriously, once you include bin charges, ESB, water charges, and employee costs can you imagine how much you will have to sell per day to keep the doors open on a shop that size? You would have to be opening a jewelry store and selling a nice bit of stock daily if you even wanted to break even.

Thats about €6,000 a month, €1,500 a week, €250 in profit a day that you would have to bring in just to break even. If you based that on the standard mark-up for retail at 40%, that means you will have to sell about €690 a day in merchandise before you can break even. Has anyone else ever been in that shop and seen the size? Thats the going rate for a space that size here in Ennis and the costs associated in opening a shop there.

Kilnababe

I know the shop you are talking about and the figures are insane. But you pay the rent so that the mortgage can be repaid, water, electricity and refuse are based on you utilisation of same, and of course you pay your rates so that overpaid lackeys in New Road can read this thread when they are finished reading the daily newspapers.

Shapey Fiend

The quality of the food in Bagel Factory is pretty dreadful. The ones that tend to do well are usually in excellent locations. There's a crazy amount of places doing lunch now compared to even 5 years ago. The standard and prices have improved across the board as well.

When you have something like G Cafe across the town, or Yolos next to it the place was never going to last.

I was away from Ennis for 4 months till recently and was surprised to see so few empty shop fronts compared to other towns i was in recently. I spotted a fair few new ones as well - indonesian take away, two sweet shops, foreign food shop, think there's something goin in where Silvermines was?

buck65

I was a regular visitor to the Bagel Factory and am sad to see it go. What the did they did well (bagels!).
The staff were friendly and the owners are hard working girls who also own the Snack shack across the carpark.
The 5 yr. lease was actually up and the franchise had no interest in reducing the rent etc. so the girls walked away.
A few days later there is a sign for ANOTHER O briens cafe (just what everyone needed) incorporating the Bagel Factory (same thing happened in Limerick city).

CptSternn

buck65 wrote: »

A few days later there is a sign for ANOTHER O briens cafe (just what everyone needed) incorporating the Bagel Factory (same thing happened in Limerick city).

Aren't they still in receivership?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1007/obriens.html

How is it they are opening new franchise locations when they can't pay their current creditors?

Lady Chatterton

buck65 wrote: »

I was a regular visitor to the Bagel Factory and am sad to see it go. What the did they did well (bagels!).
The staff were friendly and the owners are hard working girls who also own the Snack shack across the carpark.
The 5 yr. lease was actually up and the franchise had no interest in reducing the rent etc. so the girls walked away.
A few days later there is a sign for ANOTHER O briens cafe (just what everyone needed) incorporating the Bagel Factory (same thing happened in Limerick city).

Thanks Buck65 for posting!

It is a while since I lived in Ennis so I wasn't aware that the Bagel Factory was run by the people who own the Snack Shack. I feel really badly for them, they are a lovely family and you're right, they are exceptionally hard working. They have done catering for some parties and events for relatives of mine a few times and the food was great and they were very professional.

buck65

MrsD007 wrote: »

Thanks Buck65 for posting!

It is a while since I lived in Ennis so I wasn't aware that the Bagel Factory was run by the people who own the Snack Shack. I feel really badly for them, they are a lovely family and you're right, they are exceptionally hard working. The have done catering for some parties and events for relatives of mine a few times and the food was great and they were very professional.

The Snack Shack is still going well I think and they are doing a good bit of catering.
They're tough.

Shapey Fiend

The Bagel Bar > Bagel Factory. Pity there aren't a fraction as many of them around.

They're opening another O'Briens? That doesn't make sense. I like the location they're in already nice to sit at the window and people watch.

XxMCRxBabyxX

Just as a general comment.
From my personal experience in a few towns around Ireland, I'm pretty sure that all Bagel Factorys are being closed down and being incorporated with O'Briens instead! Possibly a move by the Abrakebabra group to cut down costs seeing as they own both franchises

buck65

They own Gourmet Burger as well as a few others, pity they wouldn't try something different than overpriced sandwiches and wraps.
AFAIK there will be 2 O Briens for the moment anyway.:mad:

Battleflag

They should put in a Gourmet Burger, nothing beats a proper burger. If they had good prices on them, they would have a winner.

Clareboy

I am sorry to read that The Bagel Factory has closed. They served very tasty food and the girls working there were always friendly and chatty. The amount of closed shop units in the town of Ennis is truly frightening. Like the rest of the country, the basic fabric of the town is falling apart, thanks to bad planning and the forces of greed and gombeenism. Many parts of the town are showing advanced signs of dereliction and decay. At the same time, some brainless councillors are calling for more retail development in Ennis. Will they ever learn?

Run_to_da_hills

Its a pity McDonalds couldn't move into their location, we could do with another one a bit closer to town.

CptSternn

A KFC there would be BRILL!

willow tree

yeah im sad to see it go, esprcially for the family... i liked the bagels and smoothies, i think once the rowentree came along it took a lot of custom? i liked that place when it was henrys, remember? i think its a nice location but another obriens,hmm
well its just sad to see the town go the way its going, i remember when we moved to ennis in the 80s it was so run down and then it turned into a really pretty town (friends from dublin were always commenting that the flowers and sculptures werent vandalised and its a generally tidy town, nice colourful shop fronts etc)... hope thiings change, soon

buck65

The town still looks well, apart from lower Parnell St.
Credit due to the Tidy Towns committee, Entente Florale or whoever is responsible.

Monty Burnz

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Rents may come down, however it was said on Matt Cooper that a lot of premises that are owned by conglomerates won't be cutting rent, as this will affect the bookvalue of the premise and the investors won't like it.
So it'll be cheaper for them to have an empty building, but have a high value on it and the corresponding rent.

This makes no sense. An empty property not only doesn't make money, it costs money in depreciation. A property rented at a lower rate may have a lower book value, but at least it is making a profit. One thing that investors hate more than anything else is making a loss.

CptSternn

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This makes no sense. An empty property not only doesn't make money, it costs money in depreciation. A property rented at a lower rate may have a lower book value, but at least it is making a profit. One thing that investors hate more than anything else is making a loss.

You are missing out on the big picture here.

If they lower the rent, it automatically depreciates the property. Thats how it works here in Ireland.

If they don't own the property (i.e. have a mortgage) they can't lower the rent as the bank won't let them devalue the investment.

In many cases a company owns a block of properties and has flats above them or other tenants in them. If they lower the rent they devalue the property and it in turn lowers the value of the company itself. Also, it has a knock on effect for other tenants who then want their prices lower and that cuts even more into the companies value.

They can borrow money from the bank based on their assets. If you decrease the value of those assets they then lose out.

You also have some people who own it outright, more than likely got it from an inheritance, but they got a loan and used it as collateral to say buy a house and now again they can't lower rent as it would effect their loan collateral.

Lots of scenarios that can happen like this. Very few people own property and don't have something leveraged against it these days. Thats how companies expand, as do property owners. Using one property as collateral for a loan to buy another.

Monty Burnz

CptSternn wrote: »

You are missing out on the big picture here.

If they lower the rent, it automatically depreciates the property. Thats how it works here in Ireland.

If they don't own the property (i.e. have a mortgage) they can't lower the rent as the bank won't let them devalue the investment.

In many cases a company owns a block of properties and has flats above them or other tenants in them. If they lower the rent they devalue the property and it in turn lowers the value of the company itself. Also, it has a knock on effect for other tenants who then want their prices lower and that cuts even more into the companies value.

They can borrow money from the bank based on their assets. If you decrease the value of those assets they then lose out.

You also have some people who own it outright, more than likely got it from an inheritance, but they got a loan and used it as collateral to say buy a house and now again they can't lower rent as it would effect their loan collateral.

Lots of scenarios that can happen like this. Very few people own property and don't have something leveraged against it these days. Thats how companies expand, as do property owners. Using one property as collateral for a loan to buy another.

Still makes no sense to me. Surely having negative cashflow on a property is far more serious than a reduced cashflow? And surely even the banks are well aware at this stage that the era of capital appreciation is long behind us?

CptSternn

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Still makes no sense to me. Surely having negative cashflow on a property is far more serious than a reduced cashflow? And surely even the banks are well aware at this stage that the era of capital appreciation is long behind us?

I'm not disagreeing with you. From an economical standpoint you are spot on. The problem is the law and the banks.

Also, banks don't care where you get the money to pay off yer loan, as long as you get it. If you don't they can take the property. So technically it is in their best interest to see you fail. That is the nature of the banking system and the way it is rigged today.

Many homeowners are finding this out the hard way these days sure. Have ye not been seeing the news where they are talking about home owners who are trying to renegotiate their mortgages but banks refuse to do so? It's the same thing here.

ValerieR

CptSternn wrote: »

Also, banks don't care where you get the money to pay off yer loan, as long as you get it. If you don't they can take the property. So technically it is in their best interest to see you fail.

Not sure about that as they wouldn't recover the full value out of these properties if they were to sell them.

Valerie

CptSternn

ValerieR wrote: »

Not sure about that as they wouldn't recover the full value out of these properties if they were to sell them.

Valerie

You are forgetting the current tenant/owner has been there for years paying on the loan. That means the bank gets to keep all of that money and then sell it again. They get their money plus then some. Sure it might be devalued, but they got how many years of free payments from the guy who lost it?