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Water meters...and the lies.

CrazyRabbit

Just read this:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0531/water.html

Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan has said the roll out of water meters to homes across Ireland will begin early next year.

Speaking at the National Water Metering Summit at Croke Park, Mr Hogan said consultants are being appointed to examine how the new national water company will operate.
They will report back by October and the establishment of the company will follow, with the 'pay-for-water' scheme getting under way early in 2012.
The Minister said 'it was not merely a taxing measure' but a system that would protect a 'finite resource'.
The Minister also said metering meant that people would only pay for what they use.
He said the plan also provides employment opportunities and makes Ireland more attractive to foreign investors as water supply would be guaranteed.

Am I the only one to think that these 'excuses' for bring in water metering are bullshít? Last time I checked, it rains a lot in Ireland, which produces plenty of fresh water.

And how the hell can an extra tax make Ireland more attractive to investors? And finally, since when do we have water supply issues?

Lies, lies & more lies. But this will still go ahead & people will still pay.

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[Deleted User]

I'm sick of this "it rains" crap.
People waste far too much water in this country. It may rain (what rain have we had in Dub since november? My umbrella is usually tucked away), but that does not translate to treated water. Pipes need maintaining, etc etc.
We should have water meters, and they should be based on use. Maybe then people will stop leaving taps running all night just in case, or taking half an hour to have a shower.

Padraig Mor

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm sick of this "it rains" crap.
People waste far too much water in this country. It may rain (what rain have we had in Dub since november? My umbrella is usually tucked away), but that does not translate to treated water. Pipes need maintaining, etc etc.
We should have water meters, and they should be based on use. Maybe then people will stop leaving taps running all night just in case, or taking half an hour to have a shower.

1. The public already pay for water treatment / infrastructure through general taxation. Separate water charges are just asking us to pay MORE.

2. It's been estimated that leaks in the system waste 50% of water before it gets to your house. Fix that maybe?

phasers

I woulld support water meters if the revenue generated was put 100% back into fixing and maintaining our ridiculous ancient water network, but it won't.

2qk4u

If we have to pay for the water will they improve the quality ? We have to buy bottled water because you cant drink the tap water where I am. We have to filter it before it goes into the kettle.

Turtyturd

Padraig Mor wrote: »

1. The public already pay for water treatment / infrastructure through general taxation. Separate water charges are just asking us to pay MORE.

2. It's been estimated that leaks in the system waste 50% of water before it gets to your house. Fix that maybe?

That kind of rational thinking aint welcome around here....the IMF said to charge for water so it has to be done.

Frank Black

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Am I the only one to think that these 'excuses' for bring in water metering are bullshít? Last time I checked, it rains a lot in Ireland, which produces plenty of fresh water.

QUOTE]

And with that simple statement the OP exposed the depth of thier knowledge on the subject.

CrazyRabbit

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm sick of this "it rains" crap.
People waste far too much water in this country. It may rain (what rain have we had in Dub since november? My umbrella is usually tucked away), but that does not translate to treated water. Pipes need maintaining, etc etc.
We should have water meters, and they should be based on use. Maybe then people will stop leaving taps running all night just in case, or taking half an hour to have a shower.

Conserving water is fine, but saying we have a shortage of water is laugable.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

1. The public already pay for water treatment / infrastructure through general taxation. Separate water charges are just asking us to pay MORE.

2. It's been estimated that leaks in the system waste 50% of water before it gets to your house. Fix that maybe?

Agreed. Fixing the pipes would save far more water than any measures people take.

phasers wrote: »

I woulld support water meters if the revenue generated was put 100% back into fixing and maintaining our ridiculous ancient water network, but it won't.

We already pay for water network maintenance through our regular taxes.

2qk4u wrote: »

If we have to pay for the water will they improve the quality ? We have to buy bottled water because you cant drink the tap water where I am. We have to filter it before it goes into the kettle.

Agreed also. The water from my tap is very hard. Somedays you can't even see through a glass because it's so cloudy. I have to filter the water to reduce the risk of kidney stones.

mikemac

We've our own pump, installed and serviced annually.
Piping goes 600 metres so that was quite a trench and of course the well had drilled for.

I'd like to see the council try to install a meter here
Will be getting out the shotgun

Ah no, but people in rural areas have been paying for water for years.
If the council want to bill these people, well they better take over the maintenance so.

CrazyRabbit

black francis wrote: »

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Am I the only one to think that these 'excuses' for bring in water metering are bullshít? Last time I checked, it rains a lot in Ireland, which produces plenty of fresh water.

And with that simple statement the OP exposed the depth of thier knowledge on the subject.

I am well aware of how water treatment works, and the costs associated. I was merely pointing out that the government is making it sound like we are going to run out of fresh water soon. Fresh water IS renewable & is not finite.

squod

I wanna see a serious report that covers fairly basic stuff first. It's likely a whole lot cheaper to increase catchment and capacity than to go around installing water meters all over the gaff.

Fixing leaks/preventing leaks etc are also a simple solution. People have already pointed out that our population will now not rise as quickly as previously estimated. (Recession emigration).

There's another cost that people won't discuss. The added red tape and bureaucracy associated with these meters. Are people seriously suggesting we should now employ a host of PS workers to look after billing and customer care? The cost of their pensions alone would make any of these schemes unaffordable.

smash

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

And how the hell can an extra tax make Ireland more attractive to investors?

Easy... like eflow etc, they'll probably outsource the metering and privatise the pipework layouts.

prinz

It's about time too. Might encourage people to cop the hell on when it comes to ridiculous usage.

hadook

mikemac wrote: »

We've our own pump, installed and serviced annually.
Piping goes 600 metres so that was quite a trench and of course the well had drilled for.

I'd like to see the council try to install a meter here
Will be getting out the shotgun

Ah no, but people in rural areas have been paying for water for years.
If the council want to bill these people, well they better take over the maintenance so.

Me to. I'll be building a porch just for my rocking chair and shotgun if anyone tries to meter the water I already pay for.

I'm all for water meters if the money goes back into maintenance/upgrade of the system. But it won't :rolleyes:

sollar

With these 2 charges coming down the line my gut reaction is... i will need to look after the pennies next year.

iPlop

We used to get our water from Kildare, which was full of lime and ruined countless washing machines and kettles.Last year they changed us over to the Dublin water supply which has no lime in it at all, bit of a no brainer as I live in Wicklow anyway.

The point is I'd have a real problem paying for water if it was full of lime and ruined my utilities at home.Are you going to be able to charge the government for your ruined washing machines, kettles and all that since you're paying for the service??!!

hacked

So will water meters be installed everywhere? Last budget cut I was told that rental properties would be excluded. I was skeptical of that, but haven't looked into it much.

breadandjam

Lets be clear here this has nothing to do with protecting the "finite" resource of water. They government aren't interested in the environment. If the government were interested in that they'd stop the leaks. This is just another tax to raise money- no TD is going to have to worry about the extra money needed to pay their water charges

breadandjam

hacked wrote: »

So will water meters be installed everywhere? Last budget cut I was told that rental properties would be excluded. I was skeptical of that, but haven't looked into it much.

Why would rental properties be excluded? Should they get free water?

JohnMarston

Remember folks, water is a finite resource, like oil and gas!

hacked

breadandjam wrote: »

Why would rental properties be excluded? Should they get free water?

That's what I had thought! I was away for last budget cut, but had a number of people tell me this questionable piece of information...

gman2k

hadook wrote: »

Me to. I'll be building a porch just for my rocking chair and shotgun if anyone tries to meter the water I already pay for.

I'm all for water meters if the money goes back into maintenance/upgrade of the system. But it won't :rolleyes:

I recently moved into the house I built and paid for.
I paid for my own well, pump, piping etc. The state has given me zero financial assistance with any of this.
No one is ever going to set foot onto my property to put a meter onto my water system. End of.
I am not going to pay any water charge.
I've no problem doing a spell in Mountjoy or wherever about this. If they attach a meter onto my system whilst I am locked up, it will be removed when I return and thrown through the window of Dail Eireann.

In a few years time, all the water providers will be privatised, and you will pay by the litre, and exorbitant cost.
Just look at Hogans press conference the other day - who was there? Reps from English water companies.

breadandjam

JohnMarston wrote: »

Remember folks, water is a finite resource, like oil and gas!

No it isn't like oil and gas

lucylu

hacked wrote: »

So will water meters be installed everywhere? Last budget cut I was told that rental properties would be excluded. I was skeptical of that, but haven't looked into it much.

no people on Private water schemes and those with private wells do not get a water meter

westies4ever

Sink The Banana wrote: »

We used to get our water from Kildare, which was full of lime and ruined countless washing machines and kettles.Last year they changed us over to the Dublin water supply which has no lime in it at all, bit of a no brainer as I live in Wicklow anyway.

The point is I'd have a real problem paying for water if it was full of lime and ruined my utilities at home.Are you going to be able to charge the government for your ruined washing machines, kettles and all that since you're paying for the service??!!

totally agree, i live in laois and our water is awful! i paid €800 6 years ago for a water softener system - no grant or help with that - its now broken and the company who fitted it have gone bust. At the minute, I cant afford to replace it.

The tap water is undrinkable, I spend money every week on descaling chemicals to clear out the shower head and kettle and bottled drinking water. I'm waiting for the washing machine to give up (2 broke in the couple of years we lived here before the softener went in). Why should I pay for a water supply which isnt up to scratch??

careca11

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Just read this:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0531/water.html

Am I the only one to think that these 'excuses' for bring in water metering are bullshít? Last time I checked, it rains a lot in Ireland, which produces plenty of fresh water.

And how the hell can an extra tax make Ireland more attractive to investors? And finally, since when do we have water supply issues?

Lies, lies & more lies. But this will still go ahead & people will still pay.

yep .............we the people on the street know that the local authorities are deep in the black .....................water charges will be going to them .......only to sure up their own pay

a tax on flushing the toilet after empting the bowels ...............another words a tax on sh1t

mgmt

gman2k wrote: »

I recently moved into the house I built and paid for.
I paid for my own well, pump, piping etc. The state has given me zero financial assistance with any of this.
No one is ever going to set foot onto my property to put a meter onto my water system. End of.
I am not going to pay any water charge.
I've no problem doing a spell in Mountjoy or wherever about this. If they attach a meter onto my system whilst I am locked up, it will be removed when I return and thrown through the window of Dail Eireann.

In a few years time, all the water providers will be privatised, and you will pay by the litre, and exorbitant cost.
Just look at Hogans press conference the other day - who was there? Reps from English water companies.

Eh, you dont use public water atm, so why do you think you'd be metered? Or do you just want to pull a hissy fit?

[Deleted User]

We have had water meters for the last two or three years as does everyone on our group water scheme.

mgmt

JohnMarston wrote: »

Remember folks, water is a finite resource, like oil and gas!

Fresh water is finite. They ran out of it in London and now treat the effluent coming out of the wasterwater plants for drinking water.

Fratton Fred

What's the alternative then? An increase in PAYE?

Nice if you are a taxi driver, farmer, builder etc who works cash in hand. Even nicer if you are unemployed or retired.

Very very nice if you sold all your assets during the boom and now spend all day counting your money whilst sat in the hot tub of one of your three properties watching the irrigation system water your garden.

iPlop

westies4ever wrote: »

totally agree, i live in laois and our water is awful! i paid €800 6 years ago for a water softener system - no grant or help with that - its now broken and the company who fitted it have gone bust. At the minute, I cant afford to replace it.

The tap water is undrinkable, I spend money every week on descaling chemicals to clear out the shower head and kettle and bottled drinking water. I'm waiting for the washing machine to give up (2 broke in the couple of years we lived here before the softener went in). Why should I pay for a water supply which isnt up to scratch??

This is the point, you should't be paying for undrinkable water, when I moved here from Dublin 9 years ago, the water was shíte, We've gone through 3 washing machines and 2 dishwashers and I was using de-scaling chemicals as well.We're just lucky that they changed us over last year.

The government should be forced to install water filters in every home outside Dublin if they're gonna charge you for it.