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Child Item

What to tell a child who asks? Afterlife etc.

eco2live

Hey all,

I am an recent Atheist but my wife is not. Today my 9 year olds best friends grandfather died suddenly. My daughter was consoling her friend with words such as "you will see him again" and "he will still be with you" etc. and it dawned on me that my daughter and her friend where getting comfort from such things.

We would all like to believe that there is an afterlife but I don't and I am firm in my own beliefs. I kind of resolved myself to the fact that I would talk to my daughter about these things when she gets a bit older. She is in a small country catholic school and made her communion last year.

My daughter still believes in Father Christmas as well and I don't see the harm in that if it brings a little magic into her life. The situation got me wondering what would I tell her when a close family member in my own family passes away? The truth is so hard to take for a child.

Any thoughts or experiences?

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Dades

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I'd tell my kids that I don't know, because it's the truth. I'd tell them what I believe (that there's no afterlife), but also that other people think there is (heaven, hell, valhalla...).

That sounds best to me - I'll probably go down that route when the time comes.

I'd also clarify that those people who claim to know - don't really know either - so don't believe what somebody says because they claim it's true. It's okay to not know.

DoubleBogey

Dades wrote: »

That sounds best to me - I'll probably go down that route when the time comes.

I'd also clarify that those people who claim to know - don't really know either - so don't believe what somebody says because they claim it's true. It's okay to not know.

But we do know what happens. We decompose just like every other biological thing on the planet. There's nit one shred of evidence that we are anything other than biological, so why would we tell our kids we don't know? That maybe there is a heaven, who knows.

I think the fact that we return to nature (figure of speech as we are always part of nature) is a beautiful thing. I take comfort when I feel the wind in my face or the smell of rain, thinking that my deceased love ones are now part of the journey of the universe. I think a child can understand that. They may still think of the person as a sentient being, that maybe they are alive in the wind and rain. But I think that's ok until they are old enough to fully understand.

Kooli

DoubleBogey wrote: »

I take comfort when I feel the wind in my face or the smell of rain, thinking that my deceased love ones are now part of the journey of the universe.

To be honest, I don't even understand what you mean by being part of 'the journey of the universe', so I can't imagine a child getting what that actually means.

DoubleBogey

Kooli wrote: »

To be honest, I don't even understand what you mean by being part of 'the journey of the universe', so I can't imagine a child getting what that actually means.

I mean we become part of nature, if that's easier.

CerebralCortex

DoubleBogey wrote: »

...I take comfort when I feel the wind in my face or the smell of rain, thinking that my deceased love ones are now part of the journey of the universe. I think a child can understand that. They may still think of the person as a sentient being, that maybe they are alive in the wind and rain. But I think that's ok until they are old enough to fully understand.

I feel nauseous. Tell them the truth.

sbsquarepants

What i did when my kids asked any sort of religious question, was to simply preface my answers with "some people believe........." If they then asked did i believe that i'd be honest and say i personaly don't believe it, but that nobody really knows for sure as there is no evidence either way. This was when they were quite young, now that they are old enough to reason (teenagers) i'm a bit more blunt about it! (ie it's not possible to prove that something doesn't exist, but quite easy to prove that it does) But i'm still mindfull not to try indoctrinate them to my way of thinking - after all that was the very thing that turned me against religion in the first place

the culture of deference

Tell them the truth.

I had this conversation with mine years ago, I told mine that there was no hell or heaven it was just made up. The 8 year old girl was delighted there was no hell.

Kids are little adults.

They should know all about sex, drugs, paedo's before they are 10, whats the benefit in sending to a (repressed) primary school that teaches them nothing about real life and its dangers, but can fill their little heads full of ficticious religious BS.

Most kids in Ireland learn nothing in school about sex, relationships, or the dangers that are out there. Grow up and tell them the truth.

dead one

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Tell them the truth.

the culture of deference wrote: »

Tell them the truth.

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

"Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it."

lynski

This is a relevant thread for my family as I have recently buried my father. My 3 are small (4.5, 2.5 and 3mths) so explaining anything to them is limited. They have no exposure whatsoever to religion; they think the local church is a castle. They have no concept of gods, heaven, hell, afterlife, etc.
To them grandad is dead, he is buried in the graveyard across from his house, he died because his body stopped working and he is always with us because he is on our hearts and our memories.
I am not sure the 4 yr old understands any more then the 2 yr old or vice versa, but I am sure that the idea of an afterlife has not occurred to either of them naturally; it is a purely external construct.
When they encounter the concept I intend to use the 'some people think...' prefix to any answers; I have had to do it with some of the Santy myths already.

We will have to face further challenges to our lack of belief in the future, but for now it is fascinating to me to see the minds unencumbered by superstition develop.

Stercus Accidit

dead one wrote: »

"Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it."

Bigots tell the truth and the pious and righteous tell lies? Oh and hate gays and are ok with slavery, but aren't bigots no sir, they'd have to stop lying to be that.

robindch

lynski wrote: »

they think the local church is a castle.

My kid's four and a half and still mistakes churches for castles too

lynski wrote: »

I am not sure the 4 yr old understands any more then the 2 yr old or vice versa

I explained it all around my kid's fourth birthday -- it came up naturally in conversation one day, so I explained about it all in simple terms and she was cool with it.

Last week, we went in to pay our respects to Garret FitzG and while she was quite curious about why he wasn't moving, she wasn't scared or upset about it. Back out on the street as she was climbing back onto the bike, she stopped, turned around to me and said that he'd be put into the ground in a box and that flowers and trees would grow from him and that people could use these to help remember him. It was a nice moment.

Based upon my experience of one, it seems to be quite easy for kids not to be scared of death, once it's presented in a calm and non-superstitious way.

condra

Hmmmm

I think theres a canyon of difference between telling a kid their dead relative is in a happy place called heaven, and bringing them up to believe all of the bull**** involved in Christianity.

I would have no problem with my 9 year old kid believing in heaven. I would worry if s/he was praying or making bombs or whatever.

jill_valentine

robindch wrote: »

My kid's four and a half and still mistakes churches for castles too :)I explained it all around my kid's fourth birthday -- it came up naturally in conversation one day, so I explained about it all in simple terms and she was cool with it.

Last week, we went in to pay our respects to Garret FitzG and while she was quite curious about why he wasn't moving, she wasn't scared or upset about it. Back out on the street as she was climbing back onto the bike, she stopped, turned around to me and said that he'd be put into the ground in a box and that flowers and trees would grow from him and that people could use these to help remember him. It was a nice moment.

Based upon my experience of one, it seems to be quite easy for kids not to be scared of death, once it's presented in a calm and non-superstitious way.

True enough. It's a funny one though, I was never afraid of death as a kid at least in part just because the full enormity of the concept was beyond me. Tricky stuff.

AhSureTisGrand

dead one wrote: »

"Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it."

What are ya schmokin boyo?

dead one

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

What are ya schmokin boyo?

The truth.... whose smoke has been dimmed...

Discrimination is a hellhound

the culture of deference

lynski wrote: »

This is a relevant thread for my family as I have recently buried my father. My 3 are small (4.5, 2.5 and 3mths) so explaining anything to them is limited. They have no exposure whatsoever to religion; they think the local church is a castle. They have no concept of gods, heaven, hell, afterlife, etc.
To them grandad is dead, he is buried in the graveyard across from his house, he died because his body stopped working and he is always with us because he is on our hearts and our memories.
I am not sure the 4 yr old understands any more then the 2 yr old or vice versa, but I am sure that the idea of an afterlife has not occurred to either of them naturally; it is a purely external construct.
When they encounter the concept I intend to use the 'some people think...' prefix to any answers; I have had to do it with some of the Santy myths already.

We will have to face further challenges to our lack of belief in the future, but for now it is fascinating to me to see the minds unencumbered by superstition develop.

I think lying to kids about an afterlife is terrible. Their heads get filled full of stories, santy, bunnies, god, heaven etc and then adults wonder why their kids lie. It is great to see more of us around now.

Hope you are doin ok, did he have a church burial?, how did you explain the nonsense of a man in a dress performing weird rituals and endless repetition bowing and ding donging bells.

I didn't go to my parents funerals.

jank

robindch wrote: »

Santa at nine? I'd drop a hint or two, lest she mentions it to somebody at her school :)The topic's come up with my kid a few times, and the answer's the same -- people are born, they live, they die, then they go into the ground to give birth to flowers and trees, while the living remember them. She gets it to the extent that she's asked to visit graveyards to see the plants and told me a few weeks back what she wants growing on hers (pink and yellow roses).

Not exactly a fun conversation I have to say, but hands down, it beats feeding kids bullshit.

btw, we don't use euphemisms like "pass away", "pass on" etc either -- just simple "die". No metaphors either. Just the facts. And she's fine with that.

Id say your a barrel of laughs....

MagicMarker

jank wrote: »

Id say your a barrel of laughs....

You're.

jank

Spelling checks now? Sums up this forum in fairness.

You know I share probably 95% of the same ideas as most of the people here but this board seems to be an outlet for those who want to bash anything and everything that doesn't conform to their own view point. Arrogant isn't the word. People would take you guys a lot more seriously if you werent so militant and steadfast in your opinions. I'd say the average age of this forum is 16!

{Queue 15 rebuttals on how I am a misguided theist who likes to fondle with kids!}

Sarky

You could be a tad less abrasive...

MagicMarker

jank wrote: »

Spelling checks now?

Well if you're not going to make the effort I may as well do it for you.

AhSureTisGrand

16 and a half, actually

AhSureTisGrand

Also you left out the apostrophe in "weren't"

Mark Hamill

jank wrote: »

Spelling checks now? Sums up this forum in fairness.

We'll get Dades to replace "Oh, we of little faith" right away!

jank wrote: »

People would take you guys a lot more seriously if you werent so militant

Who is being violent or proposing violence?

jank wrote: »

and steadfast in your opinions.

I dont want to be taken seriously be the type of people who would only take me seriously if I didn't really believe in my own opinions.

Ickle Magoo

jank wrote: »

You know I share probably 95% of the same ideas as most of the people here but this board seems to be an outlet for those who want to bash anything and everything that doesn't conform to their own view point. Arrogant isn't the word.

Says he who only posted to throw around personal insults at someone who made a suggestion that doesn't conform with your own view point...pot...kettle...black....

jank

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Who is being violent or proposing violence?

Nobody.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I dont want to be taken seriously be the type of people who would only take me seriously if I didn't really believe in my own opinions.

Thats fair enough but the amount of high horse sneering that goes on in the forum is disappointing. I was referring to that really. There are a few good posters here that will point out the right way but the majority make it a hostile place.

jank

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Says he who only posted to throw around personal insults at someone who made a suggestion that doesn't conform with your own view point...pot...kettle...black....

I presume you are going to retort against all the other posters here that conform to your viewpoint as they are acting the tool?

Ah I see......

Ickle Magoo

Actually I was going to reply to the OP and contribute something worthwhile but the thread seemed to have degenerated into insults about posters here being dismissive and arrogant by someone whose sole contribution was a dismissive insult - kinda ironic I thought.

jank

To be honest I had a point, I would not be so cold hearted with my kids as robindch but what he wants to with his kids is his business...90% of parents would agree with me, rightly or wrongly....

That is all.

Ickle Magoo

OP,

I told my kids the same as my folks told me, there's a thread on it here.

All the best :cool: