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In the future, will we stop using money?

The King of Moo

Star Trek (and probably other Utopian sci-fi works) always made a big deal of the fact that in the future they didn't use money as they were so much more enlightened, but never got into the practical matters of a society operating without money, ie. who did all the unpleasant work, how were people motivated etc.

Yet if you step back and look at things from a greater perspective, money doesn't necessarily seem like it's an inevitable result of human development.

So, do you think we'll ever abandon money in all its forms, or is it just too firmly established as a basic element of society?

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hatrickpatrick

fly_agaric wrote: »

Also, a society might be nasty enough to use capitalism/money/the threat of not having enough to survive as a way to keep people on the bottom in line even though technology (means of production) can supply more than enough for all.

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this is already happening, at least to some extent.

fly_agaric

Star Trek (and probably other Utopian sci-fi works) always made a big deal of the fact that in the future they didn't use money as they were so much more enlightened, but never got into the practical matters of a society operating without money, ie. who did all the unpleasant work, how were people motivated etc.

...So, do you think we'll ever abandon money in all its forms, or is it just too firmly established as a basic element of society?

In this sort of sci-fi the disappearance of money is also seen as a natural result of an almost unlimited industrial capacity and technology we can only dream about today (or technology that may not be possible), eg antimatter reactors or other devices that supply unlimited energy, replicators that can make pretty much anything once they are fed the blueprints and raw matter, robots and machines to do any nasty job, benign AI doing any job better than humans anyway (...well, not in Star trek I suppose).

The motivation thing is a tricky one - Star Trek was very optimistic here and assumed that there would still be plenty of people more than willing to compete to do the far lower number of real jobs even if there is no need to do any work to be guaranteed a comfortable life. As for the rest without one of the "key" jobs, most people would still do something productive, travel, have interests that take up their time, educate themselves, etc. There were still some misfits and criminals in star trek though.

However, I think that the willingness of many people to work on things they care about for no pay e.g. the open source software movement gives reasons for optimism about motivation of at least some people in a no-money society.

We may be so greedy we will always have some sort of money. Even if technology progresses to the levels seen in utopian sci-fi, people will still want things they cannot or should not have IMO amd perhaps such people will use money as a means of exchange amongst themselves.

Also, a society might be nasty enough to use capitalism/money/the threat of not having enough to survive as a way to keep people on the bottom in line even though technology (means of production) can supply more than enough for all.

thehairyelbow

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was really blocked, it would be a week of shags!

And a tip.......

RichieC

My name is URL wrote: »

This is it.. I don't much like the idea since it means that corporations will be able to control where you spend your money.

That's the idea, and funnily enough you'll have the usual suspects lauding it as progress. they can stick their progress up their arses.

[Deleted User]

thehairyelbow wrote: »

What if the drain cleaning charge went up to say a shag and a half?

If it was really blocked, it would be a week of shags!

thehairyelbow

Deleted User wrote: »

There will always be some form of "money", unless we go completely hack to bartering.
"I'll clear your drain, that'll be one shag!"

What if the drain cleaning charge went up to say a shag and a half?

[Deleted User]

There will always be some form of "money", unless we go completely hack to bartering.
"I'll clear your drain, that'll be one shag!"

My name is URL

RichieC wrote: »

only ones with corporate logos on them.

This is it.. I don't much like the idea since it means that corporations will be able to control where you spend your money.

thebigbiffo

My name is URL wrote: »

Will we be able to buy drugs with it though?!

There is quite a bit of talk about moving towards a cashless society

wow! the most compelling argument against there never being a 'cashless' society!

there will always be black markets of some kind, so if cash is phased out, how do we trade :eek:

RichieC

My name is URL wrote: »

Will we be able to buy drugs with it though?!

There is quite a bit of talk about moving towards a cashless society

only ones with corporate logos on them.

The King of Moo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It'll be interesting.

As we move towards a more and more mechanized society, many of the jobs people have today will be done by automated devices instead. How will we operate when there are very few jobs left, but everything is incredibly cheap because it's produced without much paid labour?

Ultimate deflation, in my view. Things will cost peanuts and we will be paid peanuts.

I would also foresee a gigantic surge in people doing "insecure" things for money. In an age when money isn't a gigantic worry, expect to see far more people taking risks - that'll mean a lot more people entering creative type jobs, entertainment, much more enterprise, inventors, etc.

It'll take time to get used to, but that's almost definitely where we'll end up if the current rate of technological advancement doesn't dramatically slow down.

As for resource problems, I can already see a future (distant future, but future all the same) in which we grow our food out in space, or even on a completely different planet, using GM crops which produce massive payloads and massive amounts of offspring, where (a) land isn't a problem, and (b) climate isn't a problem (artificial climate control).

All of the above sounds far fetched? Sure. But so did the idea of YouTube back in 1998. Say to me back then that one day it would take 10 seconds to stream a 20 minute video and I would have laughed in your face.

That's an interesting way of looking at. I can imagine in the age of hyper deflation huge numbers of people would still want to accumulate huge sums of money. It just seems to be an instinct for many people, and I think that instinct would be one of the reasons why currency might linger on far into an age when it might become basically a meaningless concept.

holystungun9

RichieC wrote: »

If the richThe Rich find a good way of staying on top without it it could be a possibility.. otherwise we're stuck with it.

Capitalise your name, damnit!

My name is URL

Gummy Panda wrote: »

In regards to people thinking that they won't be able to give their friend a lend of a fiver with digital money systems, we already have casual digital money transfers with paypal and the bump to connect technology.

Will we be able to buy drugs with it though?!

There is quite a bit of talk about moving towards a cashless society

RichieC

If the rich find a good way of staying on top without it it could be a possibility.. otherwise we're stuck with it.

hatrickpatrick

ScumLord wrote: »

The monetary system will certainly need to be looked at seriously as robots start doing all the work and we have more and more people on the planet.

I think it's served it's purpose up till now but it's becoming nothing more than an obstacle as we now have all the knowledge and resource's we're just missing the money link in most cases.

I've been thinking about this for years.
Look at closures of car companies in the US. Now, on the one hand you have tons of people who want jobs over there, and on the other you surely have tons of people who would like a car. There is no human problem there, the problem is that this artificial entity, economics, which we humans created, is not working the way we want it to.

Why do we allow ourselves to be controlled by a system we ourselves created? It's the system which is effed up, not the people living in it.

ejmaztec

Anyone want to buy a couple of kidneys?

The King of Moo

Just to clarify, I mean all forms of money, including various forms of virtual/electronic money in the future.

And whatever they used in Demolition Man.

holystungun9

The King of Moo wrote: »

Star Trek (and probably other Utopian sci-fi works) always made a big deal of the fact that in the future they didn't use money as they were so much more enlightened, but never got into the practical matters of a society operating without money, ie. who did all the unpleasant work, how were people motivated etc.

Yet if you step back and look at things from a greater perspective, money doesn't necessarily seem like it's an inevitable result of human development.

So, do you think we'll ever abandon money in all its forms, or is it just too firmly established as a basic element of society?

Back a bit, bit more, eh, no, bit more, again, will ya go back to f*ck, g'wan, g'wan............bit more.....you're not even close.

hatrickpatrick

It'll be interesting.

As we move towards a more and more mechanized society, many of the jobs people have today will be done by automated devices instead. How will we operate when there are very few jobs left, but everything is incredibly cheap because it's produced without much paid labour?

Ultimate deflation, in my view. Things will cost peanuts and we will be paid peanuts.

I would also foresee a gigantic surge in people doing "insecure" things for money. In an age when money isn't a gigantic worry, expect to see far more people taking risks - that'll mean a lot more people entering creative type jobs, entertainment, much more enterprise, inventors, etc.

It'll take time to get used to, but that's almost definitely where we'll end up if the current rate of technological advancement doesn't dramatically slow down.

As for resource problems, I can already see a future (distant future, but future all the same) in which we grow our food out in space, or even on a completely different planet, using GM crops which produce massive payloads and massive amounts of offspring, where (a) land isn't a problem, and (b) climate isn't a problem (artificial climate control).

All of the above sounds far fetched? Sure. But so did the idea of YouTube back in 1998. Say to me back then that one day it would take 10 seconds to stream a 20 minute video and I would have laughed in your face.

Gummy Panda

No money won't go.

It will probably just go entirely digital for everyday use e.g. debt cards.

In regards to people thinking that they won't be able to give their friend a lend of a fiver with digital money systems, we already have casual digital money transfers with paypal and the bump to connect technology.

The King of Moo

SeaFields wrote: »

Do you count using a debit card as using money?

I use laser for everything. Rarely actually have money on me.

Yeah I'd count that as well, physical money will probably be gone quite soon, but I can see forms of credit, electronic currency going on for ages yet.

Laika1986

A credit or money system will always exist. Our current money system is a bit crap what with debt interest etc

whiskeyman

The King of Moo wrote: »

they didn't use money as they were so much more enlightened

Theres plenty of 'enlightened' folk not using money to acquire goods, clad in tracksuits, roaming around Dublin so...

ScumLord

The monetary system will certainly need to be looked at seriously as robots start doing all the work and we have more and more people on the planet.

I think it's served it's purpose up till now but it's becoming nothing more than an obstacle as we now have all the knowledge and resource's we're just missing the money link in most cases.

thebigbiffo

people who wrote 'utopian science fiction' were generally dirty, smelly, commie, babyboomer hippies who's whacked-out, doped up, acid-addled minds hated the idea of filthy money being the be all and end all of any advanced, space exploring civilisation.

f'ucking long haired hippies.

Doyler92

Just do what I do. Have 2 credit cards. When the bill comes for one pay it with the other. Then when the other bill comes do the same. Works a treat.

Nolimits

I can foresee a time when we don't carry money around with us any more, I am aware some people already do this, but I mean for it to become the norm but currency of some kind will always be used.

mikedragon32

As far as I can recall, the only "menial" task performed in Star Trek was the gardener in Starfleet Academy in TNG.

There were several references to nobody getting paid in the course of TNG, sounded a bit like communism.

SeaFields

Do you count using a debit card as using money?

I use laser for everything. Rarely actually have money on me.

LighterGuy

There will always be money. Until the day humans are extinct.
However, paper money will be gone very soon. Its already headng down that road.