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2011: Irish people and helping people in distress

Dionysus

WELL. This afternoon I decided to get my camera and go searching for historical sites I had read about in history books throughout the years.

Anyway, at about 3.30pm I ended up in a place named Ballyboggan on the Meath-Offaly border as it has the ruins of a late medieval Augustinian priory and formerly was a major site for Irish pilgrimages (until it was destroyed by iconoclasts in the 1530s).

I got out of the car with my camera and noticed a 'people carrier' across the road at the entrance to the priory. The people looked very upset and I could see their driver-side window was smashed in. It quickly transpired that they had American accents and had all their possessions robbed in the previous hour. Passports, tickets, money, cameras - everything. There were six people. They had just arrived in our country and were on the way to Athlone. They came across this site and went in to see it, locking their van before they left. The place is in the middle of nowhere. I would never expect anybody to go out there to rob them.

At any rate, they rang 911 and waited anxiously for the Garda to arrive. I asked them could I do anything and they told me they only had one phone as the others were stolen and they had to keep that free for the Hertz window repair guy (who seemed like a right unhelpful prick, also - he said he didn't know the place but could fix it for them when they got back to Dublin) to return their call. The principal woman was really angry that nobody stopped to ask if they were OK. I was getting more and more embarrassed as I heard what was going on. I got my phone out and googled the local garda station's number, they said they'd be out. 45 minutes more passed and they still hadn't appeared. The Americans rang the US Embassy and the Marine Officer there told them not to expect the Garda out because they don't appear. I was fúcking livid when the American man reported this back to me. I was going to show him the US Embassy guy was wrong. I rang the Garda station in Enfield twice more, and nobody answered the phone. I rang 911, spoke with the Garda headquarters for Meath in Navan and explained to the officer what was going on. She was very nice, but I really had to emphasise that there were six tourists next to me waiting for almost two hours for a garda to appear and this wait was adding hugely to their already awful experience in our country. Not only had they been robbed blind within three hours of arriving in our country, but the state, along with the numerous Irish people who passed them, was ignoring them.

Over two hours since this crime was reported two members of An Garda Síochána finally arrived on the scene to deal with six tourists who were in our country and going to undoubtedly spend a decent amount of money. I asked one of them, as nicely as I could: "What kept you?" He said: "We didn't know where the place was". I said "Do you not have gps on your phone?" The garda said that, and I kid you not, since the cutbacks they have been denied gps. "It's very useful", I said politely and quickly bade my goodbyes.

1. There's six people who will not be returning to our country anytime soon.

2. There's six people who have numerous friends and family to recount their story about not only An Garda Síochána but about the ordinary Irish people who passed them by as all six of them stood on the side of a road in rural Ireland clearly in distress and with the window of their people carrier smashed in.

3. My home was robbed last month so apologies if I feel the pain of these tourists too much. Stopping to see if you could help somebody in distress is the sort of basic help all of us should be willing to give to people. You're not being "conned" if you do this, if you show kindness and empathy. Aside from basic human decency, even if you're a cynical mé féiner moron, if you had two brain cells to rub together you'd know it makes economic sense to help six tourists to our country. Economically, you personally will benefit from more tourists and the money they bring to Ireland.

/end rant.

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Dionysus

Nevore wrote: »

Why is it stupid? 911 redirects to the emergency services.

This. It has been said numerous times but doesn't seem to be sinking in. Thank you.

Chuchoter

Are we going to call a swat team out for every group of dumb tourists who leave all their worldly possessions in full view in a car? Sorry, I'll give directions and whatever else but I'm not minding people who behave like children and can't look after their stuff.

Dionysus

southsiderosie wrote: »

Why would Americans know this given that the IRISH government was advertising it? It's not advertised in the US.

southsiderosie wrote: »

So, yes, for am American to call 911 in Ireland is stupid.

Em, as stated in the OP I rang 911 as well, fully conscious that it was the same as ringing 112 and 999. Why are you having so much difficulty accepting that 999/911/112 are all answered by precisely the same service in Ireland? You keep calling people stupid for ringing 911 in Ireland. For the reason mentioned several times on this thread they, obviously, are not. You, on the other hand, persist in calling them stupid.

southsiderosie

Dionysus wrote: »

Em, as stated in the OP I rang 911 as well, fully conscious that it was the same as ringing 112 and 999. Why are you having so much difficulty accepting that 999/911/112 are all answered by precisely the same service in Ireland? You keep calling people stupid for ringing 911 in Ireland. For the reason mentioned several times on this thread they, obviously, are not. You, on the other hand, persist in calling them stupid.

Go back and read your original post. You said THEY rang 911. Specifically:

At any rate, they rang 911 and waited anxiously for the Garda to arrive.

So going from that, and combined with the fact that they were 1) dumb enough to leave their valuables in the car, 2) were mad the police did not show up quickly to a rural area to deal with a car break-in and 3) obviously did not read any of the readily available State Department information about theft and emergencies in Ireland, then, yes, I think we are entitled to find these people a bit silly.

And it's AH. Calm the fcuk down.

Dionysus

southsiderosie wrote: »

Go back and read your original post. You said THEY rang 911.

Now, had you read the next paragraph you would have discovered that I also rang 911 on their behalf. But, wait, it's not possible for two people to ring the same number? You never got that far in the post before calling people "stupid"?

....

southsiderosie wrote: »

And it's AH. Calm the fcuk down.

Perhaps before you insult people you might put some thought into your post. It would be better than insulting people and then getting intemperate when they point out that if there's "stupidity" here, it's not on their part for ringing 911 instead of 999. A good start might have been to 1) read the OP fully and 2) be aware that ringing 911 gets you through to the same service in Ireland as ringing 999 and 112 does.

southsiderosie

Dionysus wrote: »

Now, had you read the next paragraph you would have discovered that I also rang 911 on their behalf. But, wait, it's not possible for two people to ring the same number? You never got that far in the post before calling people "stupid"?

....

Perhaps before you insult people you might put some thought into your post. It would be better than insulting people and then getting intemperate when they point out that if there's "stupidity" here, it's not on their part for ringing 911 instead of 999. A good start might have been to 1) read the OP fully and 2) be aware that ringing 911 gets you through to the same service in Ireland as ringing 999 and 112 does.

Can you please tell me one thing these tourists did that wasn't stupid? Especially given the information that their home government makes publicly available about Ireland?

And given your response to ornage2 on the first page, you have some nerve calling other posters intemperate.

[Deleted User]

The Guards are just a slow bunch in general... We got robbed in our house in college at knife point but one of the guys got a call off to the guards before they got to his bedroom. The call was "this is my address, we are currently being robbed.. they are in our house right now with weapons".

The scumbags there for half an hour looking for money that a drug dealer that moved out owed them and were arguing among themselves what to do with the house. Really lucky they didn't find our rent money.

Eventually, we got them to leave and 5 minutes later, the guards arrived. 35 minutes to make it to a house in central Galway City.. And then when they arrived, they barely believed our story even though the door was kicked in.
We never got a call from a detective as promised, they stayed all of 5 minutes leaving with a "you think this is funny?"..

Moved out at 5am.. Zero help for victim, zero search for perpetrator. I wish I had said there was a guy dealing dope outside and they would have been there in 5 minutes, not the 35 minutes it takes for armed robbery in progress.

As for this thread, stop going on about which number to call.. They all get through to the same number. Literally nobody reading the thread cares in the slightest.

[Deleted User]

southsiderosie wrote: »

So going from that, and combined with the fact that they were 1) dumb enough to leave their valuables in the car, 2) were mad the police did not show up quickly to a rural area to deal with a car break-in and 3) obviously did not read any of the readily available State Department information about theft and emergencies in Ireland, then, yes, I think we are entitled to find these people a bit silly.

And it's AH. Calm the fcuk down.

Nothing they did caused them to get robbed. And nothing they did caused them to have such a long wait for help afterwards.
Leaving valuables in a car didn't make them get robbed.. It made the robbery worse but certainly not their fault. Your posts fit in with the generic American stereotype alot more than the poor tourists who got robbed.. You're way way way off the mark and really have no idea what the fuk you're on about.

I've rang 911 in Ireland before and I'm an Irish citizen.. If you think that makes me stupid, then fuk off. There's a difference between stupidity and not knowing which number to dial in an emergency.

southsiderosie

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing they did caused them to get robbed. And nothing they did caused them to have such a long wait for help afterwards.
Leaving valuables in a car didn't make them get robbed.. It made the robbery worse but certainly not their fault. Your posts fit in with the generic American stereotype alot more than the poor tourists who got robbed.. You're way way way off the mark and really have no idea what the fuk you're on about.

I've rang 911 in Ireland before and I'm an Irish citizen.. If you think that makes me stupid, then fuk off. There's a difference between stupidity and not knowing which number to dial in an emergency.

How is leaving your money and passport in the car not incredibly stupid? I'm not saying they deserved to get robbed but that doesn't make it any less dumb. It's like walking home solo at 3am - yeah it sucks to get robbed but walking home solo at 3am is stupid.

And I do think it is irresponsible to not know what to do in an emergency when in another country.

bonerm

Comedy interlude (sometimes not worth helping them)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgbSpmZyN7I

[Deleted User]

southsiderosie wrote: »

How is leaving your money and passport in the car not incredibly stupid? I'm not saying they deserved to get robbed but that doesn't make it any less dumb. It's like walking home solo at 3am - yeah it sucks to get robbed but walking home solo at 3am is stupid.

And I do think it is irresponsible to not know what to do in an emergency when in another country.

If you're not saying they deserved to get robbed, then what are you saying and why are you bothering? The thread is about the response from the Irish, not about what they lost... How can you not see that? Why are you going off on a stupid tangent?

southsiderosie

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're not saying they deserved to get robbed, then what are you saying and why are you bothering? The thread is about the response from the Irish, not about what they lost... How can you not see that? Why are you going off on a stupid tangent?

Because it's not clear to me how much more 'the irish' are supposed to do in that situation. The entire thread is predicated on some kind of perceived failure by the Irish people whereas based on what the OP said, the situation unfolded pretty much as would be expected: the police will be slow to show up for a non-emergency, the Embassy will not intervene for a non-emergency, and in a rural area people are not going to be passing by every 2 minutes to help. And nobody randomly passing by is going to know that these people are confused tourists who have been in the country for 3 hours so I don't understand all of the hysteria in the op about the Americans getting a bad impression of Ireland from all of this; if anything, the way it's presented leaves a bad impression of the tourists.

[Deleted User]

A bad presentation for the tourists? Yep.. Because people act rationally when they get everything stolen of them in a new country.

And again, why are you going on about them bein stupid for leaving stuff in the car.. It's irrelevant.

[Deleted User]

southsiderosie wrote: »

Oh, and I have to wonder: did the government make that possible because of all the silly Americans dialing 911 and wondering why nothing was happening?

I'd say it's more likely to be silly Irish people who watched too much American TV.

It was definitely their mistake to leave their valuables in their car, but I wouldn't be too hard on them. To be fair, no one is vigilant all the time, and in a foreign country with probably a far lower population than where they come from, it would have been easy to feel it was safe. However I don't understand why they just stood there, two of them crying. Surely they would have gotten in the car and driven to the nearest village instead of waiting for someone to stop for them?

CiaranC

When you rang 911 did CSI Miami show up?

panda100

Dionysus wrote: »

two hours since this crime was reported two members of An Garda Síochána finally arrived on the scene to deal with six tourists who were in our country and going to undoubtedly spend a decent amount of money.

Dionysus wrote: »

Economically, you personally will benefit from more tourists and the money they bring to Ireland.

So we should only be helping these people because they appear to have money? Very cynical reason to be helping those in need since you mentioned it at least three times in you op.

Maybe the gardai were busy helping people who pay taxes in this country? It's a bank holiday weekend, and so of course gardai are going to be very busy. I really don't think this has anything to do with Irish people and an inability to help people in distress, but more to do with gardai cutbacks and staff shortages in rural settings.
If this had occurred in the centre of Dublin, there would be lots of people helping them out.

blorg

In fairness, it was not an emergency. Even dialling 999/112/911 is more for crimes in progress rather than when you come back to find your belongings gone but the thief with them. They could have proceeded to the local police station to make a report. I am all for helping out and am sorry they were the victim of a crime but as a group they do sound particularly helpless.

www.112.ie wrote:

It is recommend that you dial 112 in urgent, genuine cases of emergency where someone’s life, health, property or the environment is in danger, or if there is any reason to assume this to be the case.

You should not dial 112 in non-urgent matters or just to make enquiries.

…

When reporting a crime which is not an emergency, please contact your local Garda Station. You can find contact details for your local Garda Station or via the normal directory enquiry services.

Dionysus

southsiderosie wrote: »

Can you please tell me one thing these tourists did that wasn't stupid?

Oh brother. :rolleyes:

southsiderosie wrote: »

And I do think it is irresponsible to not know what to do in an emergency when in another country.

Jesus Christ. After all you've been told in this thread, you have to be trolling now.

Dionysus

panda100 wrote: »

So we should only be helping these people because they appear to have money? Very cynical reason to be helping those in need since you mentioned it at least three times in you op.

In the same post I did also mention the following:

Dionysus wrote: »

Stopping to see if you could help somebody in distress is the sort of basic help all of us should be willing to give to people. You're not being "conned" if you do this, if you show kindness and empathy. Aside from basic human decency, even if you're a cynical mé féiner moron, if you had two brain cells to rub together you'd know it makes economic sense to help six tourists to our country. Economically, you personally will benefit from more tourists and the money they bring to Ireland

So, your above conclusion really has no basis, does it. The reason why financial benefit was mentioned was that the sort of people who wouldn't help would be people who would be more influenced by that argument than an argument about doing the decent thing.

Dionysus

blorg wrote: »

In fairness, it was not an emergency. Even dialling 999/112/911 is more for crimes in progress rather than when you come back to find your belongings gone but the thief with them. They could have proceeded to the local police station to make a report. I am all for helping out and am sorry they were the victim of a crime but as a group they do sound particularly helpless.

This is very true. However, 1) they were Yanks who didn't know where they were and thus where the nearest Garda station was and 2) I tried ringing the local Garda station an hour after they first reported it and only when there was no answer there did I ring 911/112/999 in order to get in touch with another Garda station.

[Deleted User]

What on earth did you expect people driving by to do? It wasn't an emergency, nobody was hurt and they obviously weren't desperate enough to flag down passing cars. Why would anyone stop and even if they did, what would they do about it? The crime had already happened. I don't see anything unreasonable about a 2 hour wait (or whatever it was) for a non-emergency. And as others have pointed out, it was incredibly stupid of them to leave their valuables in the car. If they hadn't done that, they'd just be dealing with a smashed window.

Dionysus

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

What on earth did you expect people driving by to do?

To stop when they saw six people, two of whom were crying, at the entrance to a historic site in rural Ireland outside a people carrier with a smashed window.

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

Why would anyone stop and even if they did, what would they do about it?

Well, loads. I was able to help them because it quickly emerged that all their phones bar one was stolen and I had a better idea of the local numbers to call and was able to tell him where he was so that he could explain his location to the window repair and Embassy people (and how to correctly pronounce names like Edenderry so people knew what he was talking about).

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

I don't see anything unreasonable about a 2 hour wait (or whatever it was) for a non-emergency.

I do.

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

And as others have pointed out, it was incredibly stupid of them to leave their valuables in the car. If they hadn't done that, they'd just be dealing with a smashed window.

And six undoubtedly large bags of belongings for their holidays. As I said, everything was stolen. It is a bit too much to expect them to haul all their belongings everywhere with them out of fear of theft in an isolated place in rural Ireland.

blorg

southsiderosie wrote: »

No, sorry, there is no "in fairness to them" here. When you are abroad, the most valuable thing you have is your passport. I would never leave my passport, phone, or wallet in the car ANYWHERE, much less in a foreign country. In addition, you never EVER leave all of your valuables together in the same place. This was just plain dumb.

It's a pain in the neck but the US Embassy in Dublin will replace their passports, same day if necessary. I try to look after mine certainly, but the world doesn't collapse if it goes missing... particularly in a small country like Ireland where it is easy to get to Dublin (I had mine stolen abroad 10 years ago; I survived.)

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

And again, why are you going on about them bein stupid for leaving stuff in the car.. It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant after the fact, but very relevant before. I don't care where you hail from, you're as thick as can be if you leave valuables such as your passport and all your money in a car, especially at an out of the way tourist spot. On the 911 front? Meh panic would make you reset to default and whatever you're used to. It would be (for me) odd that a local would ring 911. Too much american telly methinks. Then again I still spell "jail" as Gaol.

Helping people? Yep I would and have done, but in this scenario unless I had been flagged down I simply wouldn't have noticed.

The Guards are just a slow bunch in general...

+1 I will agree that it has been my direct experience and the experiences of friends and acquaintances over the years that the Gardai in general are about as much use as a chocolate coffee pot when it comes to property crime. I've very very rarely heard of a good result on that score. Even in most of those cases the victims were of the "ah they showed up a day late and shure weren't dey great an all, but shure these tings be happenin" variety. Basically protect your own stuff as much as possible and don't rely on the cops to be much use. Their response times in crimes currently happening in my experience mirror yours too AbG.

We rightfully blame the judiciary in this country for being daft as brushes with sentences handed down, but often counter it with "ah the Guards do a good job most of the time", but I don't agree. They're as much to blame as far as their job description goes. This country is a lovely spot for crims and scumbags. Luckily we as a culture don't actually breed that many truly horrific scumbags. We really don't and be grateful, because if we did our police force would be woefully inadequate to the task.

This is not all members of the Gardai. There are enough who do make a difference and raise the overall bar and I've been lucky to come across them too, but it is a career path with it's fair share of idiot sons of idiot sons with notions about themselves.

[Deleted User]

Dionysus wrote: »

To stop when they saw six people, two of whom were crying, at the entrance to a historic site in rural Ireland outside a people carrier with a smashed window.

Why? Why would you stop? I'd assume they were sorting it out themselves. I'm not going to go poking my nose into other peoples' business unless I'm flagged down.

Well, loads. I was able to help them because it quickly emerged that all their phones bar one was stolen and I had a better idea of the local numbers to call and was able to tell him where he was so that he could explain his location to the window repair and Embassy people (and how to correctly pronounce names like Edenderry so people knew what he was talking about).

Perhaps they should have flagged someone down if they were so in need of assistance.

I do.

Well, you're a bit deluded, then. I was waiting far longer than that after a violent attack in Dublin City Centre. Do you not think the guards have other things to deal with? Thefts are not considered an emergency anywhere.

And six undoubtedly large bags of belongings for their holidays. As I said, everything was stolen. It is a bit too much to expect them to haul all their belongings everywhere with them out of fear of theft in an isolated place in rural Ireland.

Bad luck about the belongings, but it's not a complete disaster once you have all your valuables. You can claim a lot back on the insurance.

Einhard

I voted yes, before I had read your post. When I had though, I had to wonder, how exactly would anyone have noticed that these tourists were in distress? I mean, as you said, they were in the middle of nowhere. And, from your post, the only visible sign of what had happened, from the POV of anyone passing, was the fact that their side window had been smashed. That could have happened in any number of ways. So- would I stop if I noticed someone in obvious distress- yes. Would I stop if I was driving along and noticed a bus with a broken window- not necessarily.

Also, as unfortunate as it is, worse happens to tourists every day across the world. They got their stuff robbed. Big whoop. I got my stuff robbed in Syria once- it wouldn't stop me from going back. If they use this incident to tar all Irish people, and Ireland in general with the one brush, then I really don't care if they don't come back.

Einhard

Deleted User wrote: »

And again, why are you going on about them bein stupid for leaving stuff in the car.. It's irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant. Surely people, even tourists, have a responsibility to look out for themselves, and take steps to protect their possessions?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

blorg

Einhard wrote: »

It's not irrelevant. Surely people, even tourists, have a responsibility to look out for themselves, and take steps to protect their possessions?

I don't think it is particularly relevant in the sense that the thieves are still the ones to blame. The thieves are still the ones to blame even if they left the door open or all their bags just sitting outside at the side of the road. No matter how stupid they were, the thieves are the ones to blame. I don't see how blaming the victim is helpful (other than, not to do it again) but it seems very popular on message boards. The OP's issue is not about that but the Garda/public reaction, although I don't see that as being quite as disasterous as he does (nor do most on this thread.)

I'd stop and help if I saw someone obviously in trouble/distress, but I'm not sure that someone simply having a broken window but none of the group making no attempt to flag me down would count.

southsiderosie

true-or-false wrote: »

I'd say it's more likely to be silly Irish people who watched too much American TV.

It was definitely their mistake to leave their valuables in their car, but I wouldn't be too hard on them. To be fair, no one is vigilant all the time, and in a foreign country with probably a far lower population than where they come from, it would have been easy to feel it was safe. However I don't understand why they just stood there, two of them crying. Surely they would have gotten in the car and driven to the nearest village instead of waiting for someone to stop for them?

Maybe they left their keys in the car along with their wallets and passports.