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From today I can call myself an atheist

wingnut32

Well today is the day after about two years of hard thought and experience I can truly be comfortable with the fact that there is no god. Its strange really because its taken 36 years to get to this point which is probably to do with my sometimes intense fear of death.

I suspect like many posters here I was raised a catholic coming from a catholic family and like most in later years stopped going to mass a good few years ago and became a non practicing catholic. As the years passed I really didnt question my religion too much as it provided me with a comfort for my fear. That changed two years ago when I started to watch a program about the Universe.

I couldnt believe the sheer scope, size, distances, make up and evolution of life the whole thing. What really struck me was the age of the earth and then the age of the Universe itself. One of those nights after watching the program it struck me, what the hell was god doing for 15 billion years? Why does the church not address evolution?And then it started and snowballed. I suppose for the first few months I questioned everything in my mind without really talking about it to anyone.

Then I saw the god delusion which made me feel silly and a little angry at the same time for accepting the fairytale and being so ignorant for not questoning it sooner. Anyway the important thing is through the last two years of reasoning, reading and educating myself Ive accepted that death is a natural part of life and this life we have shouldnt be wasted, not one second of it, particularly on man made fairytales.

Well thats me, and today is the first day of the rest of my life and I dont have to thank god for that...:D

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dead one

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Absence of belief is actually belief?

What makes a belief to be absent, that source is actually belief/trust.

liamw

Anyone else notice that since Dead Man has become more active on the boards, J.C. has been inactive...

Dades

dead one wrote: »

What makes a belief to be absent, that source is actually belief/trust.

A complete lack of any evidence to justify a belief.

dead one

Dades wrote: »

A complete lack of any evidence to justify a belief.

See we and you have beliefs, but you think that you have superior beliefs like evolution / science because you aren't eye witness of an accident which started life on earth and that accident completely lack the evidence but still you believe in it.:eek: What is that thing which makes you to trust it, that is your belief.

The Mad Hatter

dead one wrote: »

You edited your post, which shows you are hiding something from me. Rejecting fabricated tales is not a belief but accepting new fabricated tales like evolution or we are product of chance or We are going on and on because of chance is belief. Why you don't accept you believe in new scientific fairy tales. You put trust in fairy tales purposed by science.

___________________
Last edited by dead one at 12:00

AhSureTisGrand

dead one wrote: »

What makes a belief to be absent, that source is actually belief/trust.

Do you believe Richey Edwards is still alive? I imagine your answer is no and that you've never heard of him. Does your lack of belief stem from other beliefs you already hold? Is belief making this belief absent, as you might say?

dead one

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

She edited her post by putting a whole quote and than replying it. I didn't do that.:eek:

Reason

I don't believe i have superior belief system:D

Dades

dead one wrote: »

See we and you have beliefs, but you think that you have superior beliefs like evolution / science because you aren't eye witness of an accident which started life on earth and that accident completely lack the evidence but still you believe in it.:eek: What is that thing which makes you to trust it, that is your belief.

It's called peer review.

AhSureTisGrand

dead one wrote: »

She edited her post by putting a whole quote and than replying it. I didn't do that.:eek:

Reason

I don't believe i have superior belief system:D

Are you saying Islam is inferior?

dead one

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Are you saying Islam is inferior?

I am saying, i m not arrogant. Perhaps it requires wisdom to understand wisdom

dead one

Dades wrote: »

It's called peer review.

You mean superiority complex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex

Smiley G

Been reading this thread and have found it interesting.
I was brought up in a non-religious environment in a happy and loving family. Religion was in certain areas of my school, but not the main factor... basically one prayer after morning assembly and one RE class, which was seen as something we had to attend but of no real importance as the real educational classes.
I disliked the RE class in my junior school as the teachers could not explain any of my questions of how and why... when i got to senior school we had a teacher that took the view that God was love and not an actual entity, this seemed much more realistic to me. I then enjoyed the class and had many debates with the teacher on love simply being humanity on a big scale. It seemed to me that if people needed help or guidence they could reach out to each other as decent humans without the need to attend a church or create a belief system... it all seems very simple to me.
My parents taught my brothers and I right from wrong and how to be well rounded individuals, if i lend a hand to someone on the street or in life then i do not see i am being christian but simply human.
I believe you can do good and help people if you wish without taking their money or putting restrictions on their lives as it appears some religions do.
Life is what you make of it... do it on your own beliefs or thinkings not what others tell you.

oldrnwisr

Boulevardier wrote: »

I consider Deism to be the most reasonable position.

On what basis? What evidence do you have to suggest that a created universe is more reasonable than a spontaneous universe?

Boulevardier wrote: »

The universe cannot have created itself.

Firstly, how do you know that the universe cannot create itself? Secondly, who says it did? The big bang theory doesn't speculate on what created the universe. There are multiple cosmogonical theories which offer possible explanations, some of which have already been supported by experimental evidence. To paraphrase Laplace though, none of them have needed to use God in their formation.

Boulevardier wrote: »

There must therefore be a higher, but not necessarily personal, being.

As above, why?

Boulevardier wrote: »

The organised religions ask people to beleive too many nonsensical things. Deism, on the other hand, is a product of reason and of reasonability. I commend it to others.

Here is a link:

www.deism.com

Really? Then you obviously think that this statement from the website you linked to is accurate:

Deism is knowledge of God based on the application of our reason on the designs/laws found throughout Nature. The designs presuppose a Designer. Deism is therefore a natural religion and is not a "revealed" religion.

The argument from design has been picked apart so many times that I sometimes wonder why people still bother with it.

Boulevardier wrote: »

Dades, how likely is it really that the universe created itself?

The use of the word likely implies a measure of probability. How do you imagine we do that? We don't even know the range of available values that exist for the origins of the universe. It is impossible and therefore worthless to speculate on the likelihood of an event that can't be calculated.

Boulevardier wrote: »

Is it not more reasonable to think it didn't than that it did? Obviously I could be proved wrong by some cosmological equivalent of Darwin, but that has not happened.

No, it isn't. A hypothesis becomes more reasonable when evidence is presented to support it. Unless you can provide some such evidence then there is no reasonability attached to deism.

Boulevardier wrote: »

Therefore, as things presently stand, I would have to say, like Paul Davies, that the balance of reasonability points more towards external origin.

An appeal to authority is always a nice way to end an argument.

irishconvert

virmilitaris wrote: »

You're also not comparing like with like. Atheism is against theism which would be 'music' in your example, not a particular kind of music.

Yes I am, the OP has decided he rejects all religions based on his experience with Catholism. It's the same as someone who rejects all music based on only hearing one genere of music.

virmilitaris wrote: »

Go on then. Please explain how Islam is different from Christianity ? How is it 'unique' ? If you can do that then you've got a point.

What makes Islam different from Christianity or Judaism ?

I am not here to compare Islam to Christianity, or to try to convert anybody. I am simply interested in how the OP came to the conclusion there is no God.

CerebralCortex

irishconvert wrote: »

Yes I am, the OP has decided he rejects all religions based on his experience with Catholism. It's the same as someone who rejects all music based on only hearing one genere of music.

I am not here to compare Islam to Christianity, or to try to convert anybody. I am simply interested in how the OP came to the conclusion there is no God.

Something along the lines of this.

kylith

irishconvert wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.

Ok, you dimiss the idea of a God that created everything, fair enough.

Do you dismiss the possibility that there is intelligent life on other planets? If there is other life, more intelligent and advanced than us, could we have been created by these "beings"? Perhaps we are a big experiment. Do you think that is a possibility, even a remote possibility?

It is certainly a possibility. However if we were created by advanced creatures from another planet then they were certainly not supernatural beings. We would have been created using technology, not magic. And I certainly wouldn't be worshiping them either.

However there is no evidence for the Advanced Alien hypothesis, and so I while I accept that it's possible I believe it's no more likely than the hypothesis that I were created from someone's rib, or sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure.

Boulevardier wrote: »

I consider Deism to be the most reasonable position. The universe cannot have created itself. There must therefore be a higher, but not necessarily personal, being.

No one has said that the universe created itself, simply that all matter was compressed down to one point which then expanded to form the universe. How is this less likely than something creating the entire universe just by saying 'There should be a universe here'.

dead one wrote: »

What is source for this i.e man made distorted history. You have belief in manmade history than what makes you to deny universal truth (God). You can believe a man "Rapist" from distorted facts

Not distorted facts. It is a matter of Islamic record that Mohammed married a nine year old girl and consummated the marriage. If that doesn't make him a pederast what would you call him?

Doctor DooM

irishconvert wrote: »

Yes I am, the OP has decided he rejects all religions based on his experience with Catholism. It's the same as someone who rejects all music based on only hearing one genere of music.

Only if it were music that you can't see and can't hear unless you believe in it, and then it talks to you in your head.

irishconvert

Dades wrote: »

I think it's quite possible other life forms exist - possibly more intelligent than ourselves (I mean look at the way people treat each other - would that be difficult? )

Could we have been 'spawned' by some alien race? Sure - it's a possibility. Though I doubt that alien race would care if women never wore material to cover their heads or if we ate sea creatures on an arbitrarily chosen revolution of the planet.

Ok, so we could have a "creator", who are aliens from another planet. How can you accept this as a possibility without any proof?

Smiley G

irishconvert wrote: »

Yes I am, the OP has decided he rejects all religions based on his experience with Catholism. It's the same as someone who rejects all music based on only hearing one genere of music.

I am not here to compare Islam to Christianity, or to try to convert anybody. I am simply interested in how the OP came to the conclusion there is no God.

i think the op explained it in the beginning. They were born into a faith, then as they grew up they expanded their knowledge of the world and as their education grew they began to ask questions and attain their own answers. Now they have made a decision they are happy with.
Surely it works the same in the other direction also.

Like i said earlier, we should all make up our own minds without being judged.

MagicMarker

irishconvert wrote: »

Ok, so we could have a "creator", who are aliens from another planet. How can you accept this as a possibility without any proof?

Because we know other planets exist and we know that life evolves. Ergo it's not unreasonable to accept the very very VERY small possibility that life evolved elsewhere to such an extent that they had the means to create life on this planet.

I'm sure Dades is also open to the possibility of a divine creator. You don't need proof to accept possibilities, you need proof for these possibilities to become facts.

robindch

irishconvert wrote: »

How can you accept this as a possibility without any proof?

Er, a "possibility" is what happens when you don't have definitive evidence one way or the other

Beruthiel

dead one wrote: »

You edited your post, which shows you are hiding something from me.

Yes... Clearly...
It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact I just added in your last comment so I could reply to that also.
Your version is much more intriguing.

Rejecting fabricated tales is not a belief but accepting new fabricated tales like evolution or we are product of chance or We are going on and on because of chance is belief. Why you don't accept you believe in new scientific fairy tales. You put trust in fairy tales purposed by science.

Have you been living under a rock? You do know a theory is not accepted in the scientific world until it has been reviewed to death and all evidence taken on board?
You cannot say the same about religion.

mewso

irishconvert wrote: »

Ok, so we could have a "creator", who are aliens from another planet. How can you accept this as a possibility without any proof?

No you accept it as fact with proof. You accept it as a possibility because there is no evidence one way or another. You may consider it very unlikely because of the complete absence of proof up to this point or you may consider it very likely because you liked E.T. and it comforts you to think there are nice little green men out there who will look after us or you might be absolutely certain of it because you were raised to believe in aliens who you speak to regularly and they tell you to keep females in their place.

Shenshen

Beruthiel wrote: »

Yes... Clearly...
It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact I just added in your last comment so I could reply to that also.
Your version is much more intriguing.

Have you been living under a rock? You do know a theory is not accepted in the scientific world until it has been reviewed to death and all evidence taken on board?
You cannot say the same about religion.

mikhail

irishconvert wrote: »

Yes I am, the OP has decided he rejects all religions based on his experience with Catholism. It's the same as someone who rejects all music based on only hearing one genere of music.

Yes I am, the OP has decided he rejects all slavery based on his experience with one slave-owner. It's the same as someone who rejects all music based on only hearing one genere of music.

Fallacious comparison is fallacious.

b318isp

irishconvert wrote: »

Ok, so we could have a "creator", who are aliens from another planet. How can you accept this as a possibility without any proof?

Strange comment. The possibility does not presuppose a proof. A statement, theory or even a dogma would.

In other words, I'm sure there are perhaps thousands of possibilities of why we are here. The ones that I'm most interested in are the ones with the more established evidence or make the most sense given our knowledge at this point in time.

Edit: I should add that a divine creator remains a possibility for me too, it's just that the evidence and reasoning to support this has diminished massively in my mind. I'd suggest the OP is thinking in the same way.

mikhail

irishconvert wrote: »

Ok, so we could have a "creator", who are aliens from another planet. How can you accept this as a possibility without any proof?

If you met someone who fervently believed this was the case, who told you that his morality was based on instructions from these alien creators, and who insisted that you cease behaving in a fashion offensive to those who believe in the alien overlords - to stop being heterosexual, as it's a sin - who wanted to deny you basic rights over your lack of belief, what would you think of him?

Would this be at all like someone accepting that an alien creator is not completely impossible, but merely staggeringly unlikely?

Smiley G

mikhail wrote: »

If you met someone who fervently believed this was the case, who told you that his morality was based on instructions from these alien creators, and who insisted that you cease behaving in a fashion offensive to those who believe in the alien overlords - to stop being heterosexual, as it's a sin - who wanted to deny you basic rights over your lack of belief, what would you think of him?

Would this be at all like someone accepting that an alien creator is not completely impossible, but merely staggeringly unlikely?

I would think his old movies were much better than any todate!!

wingnut32

irishconvert wrote: »

Yes I am, the OP has decided he rejects all religions based on his experience with Catholism. It's the same as someone who rejects all music based on only hearing one genere of music.

I am not here to compare Islam to Christianity, or to try to convert anybody. I am simply interested in how the OP came to the conclusion there is no God.

Read my post, I said I dont have a superior knlowedge of all other religions but that they all involved some sort of god that created us and everything else. I told you I dont believe in one superior being, it doesnt matter what religion it is. They all seem to be fairly similiar anyway, borrowing bits from each other.

I came to the conclusion that there is no god because it sounded ridiculous in my head it really did. The storys,the concepts, the idea of an all powerful being that hasnt dropped in to say hello in a few thousand years..lol. When I combine this with our ever expanding knowledge of the universe and the death and destruction that religion has caused since the day someone decided to invent it, it makes perfect sense to me what the truth is.

Smiley G

wingnut32 wrote: »

Read my post, I said I dont have a superior knlowedge of all other religions but that they all involved some sort of god that created us and everything else. I told you I dont believe in one superior being, it doesnt matter what religion it is. They all seem to be fairly similiar anyway, borrowing bits from each other.

well done op for having the courage of your convictions and not following the crowd.
It has always been curious to me that some religious people who claim to have god in their lives are unable to show basic humanity and understanding to others.:(