JustMary wrote: » I use a weekly or monthly bus pass - because I live in the city centre and choose not to run a car. However this means I need to cross a major roundabout as a pedestrian twice a day: trust me, the "fear" that any driver feels at a RAB is way less than what I experience every day. The worst bit is when a well-meaning-but driver decides to stop and let me across: there's always the the chance that the vehicle behind will rear-end them, or (at two lane roads) that someone less savvy than me will cross at the same time but not pause after the first lane to check for rogue motorbikes etc nipping between the cars.
Deleted User wrote: » Are there any particular roundabouts that will benefit from being converted to traffic lights? The exit from Boston Scientific or Cemetery Cross? Cemetery Cross is very small - would lights stop people driving onto the roundabout without being able to exit it going towards Moneenageisha? Also as there is a school on the corner it would probably be safer for other road users.
JustMary wrote: » I use a weekly or monthly bus pass - because I live in the city centre and choose not to run a car. However this means I need to cross a major roundabout as a pedestrian twice a day: trust me, the "fear" that any driver feels at a RAB is way less than what I experience every day. The worst bit is when a well-meaning-but driver decides to stop and let me across: [1] there's always the the chance that the vehicle behind will rear-end them, [2] or (at two lane roads) that someone less savvy than me will cross at the same time but not pause after the first lane to check for rogue motorbikes etc nipping between the cars.
KylieWyley wrote: » So, we're advocating fecking up the traffic flow in the city, adding hours to peoples weekly drive times and thereby reducing their quality of life just so we can protect a few gombeens. I'm a driver, yes, but I also regularly walk to places in Galway. I have never had a problem crossing at roundabouts. AFAIK, there are islands in the middle of the road on the entrances to most of the busy roundabouts in town.
Iwannahurl wrote: » There are many factors "fecking up the traffic flow". A large number of unnecessary single-occupant short car journeys is one. Bad "planning" is another.
Iwannahurl wrote: » Galway's roundabouts are demonstrably dangerous, and that is not an acceptable compromise to make in order to facilitate private cars. In any case these junctions are also hazardous for motorists -- Garda statistics show that 25% of collisions in Galway are occurring on the city's roundabouts.
KylieWyley wrote: » That may be a fair point.. And, to be honest, I have seen a fair few incidents of two cars pulled over at the side of a roundabout and the drivers exchanging particulars (these have always been minor tips). Where are these statistics and do they cite the percentage of incidents that occur at junctions regulated by traffic lights? Data can be 'spun' in deliberate ways and there is always the likelihood of a skewing of data. These things need to be taken with a pinch of salt, particularly when it's only coming from one source.
Iwannahurl wrote: » One of the foremost critics of what is laughably called "Planning" in this here Republic of Banana, Frank McDonald, is far from being anti-development and is a champion of all the best modern architecture and urban planning has to offer. This is what he had to say about the M50 mess back in 2006: The decision to locate Ikea in an already heavily congested road corridor merely compounds a history of bad planning that has left the motorway littered with huge traffic generators such as Liffey Valley shopping centre as well as miscellaneous retail and business parks. As a result, the original aim in 1971 of providing a national bypass of the capital for those travelling between, say, Sligo and Wexford has been swamped by commuter belt traffic.
churchview wrote: » antoobrien, That's one of the finest pieces of writing I've seen on boards in a long time. Very impressive and cogent. You've stated the position logically and objectively without favouring the various self-interest groups, be they cycling, motoring, developers or whatever. Many thanks.
antoobrien wrote: » And people actually believe the muck this character comes out with. Then again he has a degree in history and politics, not in CE or architecture - so anything that comes out of his mouth should have about as much impact as mine (my degree is in software, at least we're thought how to look at a problem systematically) - except he writes for the times, so he gets to spout his rubbish across the country. [...] Liffey Valley as you should well know is due to corruption - direct bribes of officials - or have you been listening to the coverage Moriarty tribunal since 1997? Were there problems with the M50 - yes. Can we learn from them - we'd better (oh wait that's where the journo's history degree will come in handy). You've mentioned in earlier posts about KMS's report in 2007 that areas in Knocknacarra, Bushypark, Menlo, Castlegar, Barna and Briarhill will be opened up. Since my family live near Briarhill we know about the plans for Briarhill, we have seen the proposals from the city council (several years ago, i don't know if they were ever published or just copies given out to interested parties). Throw in Arduan and it seems that the City & County councils are actually doing their jobs an planning for the population growth coming down the line. I apologise for the roundabout way of getting to this - and the delay in the response, but this next bit needed appropriate research and consideration. The point of all this is that the reason for the traffic problems in Galway is quite simple - the population has grown faster than our infrastructure. I got all these figures from the census website. I've gone back to the 50s because that is the start of the expansion of Galway as a city (Old Mervue etc were started in the 40s/50s). [...] A quick analysis of these figures, between 1956 & 1981 Galway's population almost doubled. Since 1981 it's up a further 67%, making the city 3 times more populated than it was in the late 60s - by which stage, most of the roads we have in town were built. [...] This undermines the argument that because Bothar na dTreabh was built employers and stores are coming to Galway, that the bypass is being built because of people being greedy, and that they will come if you build it. People and employers have been coming to Galway for a long time anyways. [...] So in order of priority and delivery for transport I believe we need: 1) A road system that can handle a population of 150,000 people within the city AND the associated traffic from the wider Galway area (approaching 250k) - for this we require a bypass (to make room for) - the reason for 150,000 is that by the time we build a road for 100,000 it'll already be over capacity. 2) A comprehensive public transport system, including P&R at or near the bypass junctions and bus routes/shuttle running to & from the City center. I don't believe that a rail system is feasible for Galway, unless it's an underground system, which will be far too expensive - I shudder when I see suggested gluas routes running through the most congested roads in the country, which aren't even wide enough for a bus lane let alone two side by side trams. Finally, I think if we are to continue this conversation, we should enlist the help of one of the mods to break this out into a development/planning thread - we're gone way OT here
Iwannahurl wrote: » What aspect of population growth determines that a majority of Galwegians travel by car even on short trips of 2-4km or even less? How does the presence of more citizens make it inevitable that most children travel to school by car (some Secondary students even driving themselves) while the bus users have to make do with an inadequate service and those that walk or cycle have to run the gauntlet of dangerous parking and even more dangerous driving (all under the totally apathetic noses of the Council and Garda Siochana)? What did your perusal of the Census statistics tell you about the long-term decline in public transport, walking and cycling as a means of getting around the city? Was there any explanation in there as to why I and so many of my classmates used to regularly walk and cycle to school, whereas in the 2006 census Galway City had the dubious honour of being the last place in the country where more girls still cycle to school than actually drive their own cars?
McTigs wrote: » When i was in school late 80's early 90's virtually nobody got driven to school and certainly nobody drove themselves. Slowly over the late 90's and into the celtic tiger years everyone got too good to bus it, bike it or walk it. it's equal parts snobby and lazy.
what_traffic wrote: » Could it also be that more traffic created increased traffic levels. i.e as Traffic levels increased around the schools, parents started becoming more concerned about letting their children walk and cycle to school and then started driving them, there by creating further vechicular traffic? "Its a vicious cycle" (Pardon the pun)
McTigs wrote: » This really is the crux of the issue. We have inner city congestion not because of lights, roundabouts, roads or bus lanes, we have congestion because there are just too many cars making short journeys. When i was in school late 80's early 90's virtually nobody got driven to school and certainly nobody drove themselves. Slowly over the late 90's and into the celtic tiger years everyone got too good to bus it, bike it or walk it. it's equal parts snobby and lazy.
McTigs wrote: » Which also brings us back to one of the principle reasons behind the introduction of lights over roundabouts. To making walking or cycling less dangerous and more accessable and appealling.
SYNERGY_RC wrote: » They should fit zebra crossings to the roundabouts that we have to make walking or cycling less dangerous. As that TD had stated a zebra crossing costs about 5000 euro where a pedestrian controled crossings (not for trafic juction, only for pedestrian) is about 150,000 and then add maintenance of said lights. And then fit CCTV at zebra crossings to act as the big stick to make driver's stop when a pedestrian needs to cross. Moneenageisha traffic light junction worked in one main way and that was to make it safer to pedestrian's , which is great but they have forgoten about the main users of the junction which is the automobile. There need's to be more driver, pedestrian and cyclist training of how to use ALL junction's properly and more enforcement by the Garda of people who use them dangerously i.e. breaking fully red lights (3or 4 cars at a time coming fromDunnes stores). I live in Renmore and they fitted pedestrian controled crossings (lights) on Renmore road and they stopped working for about a month, they could have fitted a zebra crossings for a lot cheaper of a price and would work a lot faster for everyone as the pedestrianonly has to wait for a few seconds at to edge of crossing to make sure the driver stops and the driver can drive away when the pedestrians clear, like they used to have in Eyre Square. I would like to see who has share's in these traffic light fitting and maintenance companies as there seams to be a lot more been fitted around the place where a zebra crossings would make more sence. I'm sick of sitting at lights at 3am in the morning when there's notthing arould, so I for one want to keep the roundabout but they need to be make safer for every road user.
KevR wrote: » I don't understand why so many low rise office blocks were built on the outskirts of the City. It's very difficult to provide a good public transport service to such sprawling low density developments. People are pretty much forced to drive if they work in the business parks on the outskirts. To me it seems like a no-brainer to have offices located in medium/high rise buildings in the City Centre near the train + coach station. Manufacturing should be on the outskirts, near the motorway. Increasing density substantially in the city centre should have been policy. Also, train stations are badly needed in Renmore and Oranmore. There is loads of space around the planned station in Oranmore - in future this should be used for high density residental development (like Ashtown in Dublin where there are loads of modern apartment blocks up to 8 storys high directly beside the train station). They should ban any development to the South of Oranmore for the forseeable future and focus all development of Oranmore in the area around the train station (North West of the town).
Point of information: how would zebra crossings work for cyclists?
BTW, in what way is "the automobile" the "main user" of the Moneenageisha junction?
Iwannahurl wrote: » I can't find a source for it just now, but I recall hearing some time ago that it takes, or used to take, up to five years for the DoT to licence a new bus route. .... That said, I also recall a senior Council official once saying something like "just because we put in bus lanes doesn't mean that we have a role in promoting public transport".
antoobrien wrote: » The highest office block in Galway is the Eircom building in Mervue (6 stories i think). To my knowledge the highest other building is 3 stories. High rise is unpopular because of perceptions, and would be objected to left right and center. ABP would probably have rejected any plans for anything above 4 stores as being out of character anyways. It'd be interesting to see if the current development plan has anything on this.
SYNERGY_RC wrote: » Easy, you dismount your bike and walk across like a pedestria, takes 10 second's. Faster than waiting for the lights to change. (for those few cyclists that follow the law and don't cycle throught red light's)
JustMary wrote: » You might have missed a key point: Under current law, local councils have no accountability for, or indeed say in, public transport planning or provision. So it's more along the lines of "just because we put a bus lane in doesn't mean we can convince any bus company to use it".
I can't imagine any serious utility cyclist doing that, for the reasons outlined above. For example, the Western Distributor Road features no less than six roundabouts, IIRC. Would cyclists be expected to dismount and become pedestrians at every single one?
That said, I would be in favour of Zebra-type crossings if they prioritised cyclists as cyclists, not as some class of rolling pedestrian.
