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[UPC] Cap and Fair Usage Policy

dave-higgz

Just got a letter in the door today informing me that I downloaded 358.05GB last month on my UPC 10mb Broadband.

They stated that even though my broadband cap is unlimited that there is a residential cap of 250GB per month.

There's no way I downloaded that much data. I have a windows home server which is constantly getting TV shows and movies but for me to have clocked up that much I would have had to download 1gb every 2 hours for an entire month!!!

Along with being threatened with disconnection, the usual lark, they also said that I might be automatically upgraded to their highest package, UPC broadband extreme (€79.99). I checked their website and along with there being no mention of a 250Gb cap there most certainly isn't a residential package that's 79.99. Will this be the anticipated 50mb service??

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Leeg17

ria.rayner wrote: »

What is it with you people???
UPC have massive download limits.
For normal famiily use (which does include downloading) you wouldnt get anywhere near the usage limits.
and if you are one of these people who has nothing bettr to do with your lives than download a load of ****e other people put online then you should be paying through the nose for it!
UPC have 100mb bb which has AUP of 500mb as per the website. i couldnt download that much unless i had a rake of pcs and an endless supply of redbull!
ARRGGHH! Makes me so mad :mad::mad::mad:

I don't mind paying e42 a month for 250gb, why shouldn't I get the most out of my money by filling the 250gb cap?

Bohrio

Leeg17 wrote: »

I don't mind paying e42 a month for 250gb, why shouldn't I get the most out of my money by filling the 250gb cap?

Because if everyone does the same your next post will be of you complaining on how slow and congested UPC is

Leeg17

Bohrio wrote: »

Because if everyone does the same your next post will be of you complaining on how slow and congested UPC is

Fair enough, but 250gb a month is not that unheard of really.

Thor

ria.rayner wrote: »

What is it with you people???
UPC have massive download limits.
For normal famiily use (which does include downloading) you wouldnt get anywhere near the usage limits.
and if you are one of these people who has nothing bettr to do with your lives than download a load of ****e other people put online then you should be paying through the nose for it!
UPC have 100mb bb which has AUP of 500mb as per the website. i couldnt download that much unless i had a rake of pcs and an endless supply of redbull!
ARRGGHH! Makes me so mad :mad::mad::mad:

AS its been said before on this thread, Its not so much the limit that's the problem, Although with everything becoming of a higher quality standard(Youtube videos, Websites with mroe data per page, Music etc,etc)

The problem is they say its 'Unlimited' which means a lot of people may go over the invisible limit by mistake and have to pay more for it. That is not fair as UPC call there FAIR USAGE POLICY>>#

I have no problem with UPC, I'm aware of the limit and will stay under it. Some people do NOT know about it..

Bohrio

Leeg17 wrote: »

Fair enough, but 250gb a month is not that unheard of really.

True, I have seen worse

but in all fairness, how long can you keep that on for?

after a few days I run out of ideas on what to download/watch ... maybe I have no imagination...

Slippin Jimmy

ria.rayner wrote: »

What is it with you people???
UPC have massive download limits.
For normal famiily use (which does include downloading) you wouldnt get anywhere near the usage limits.
and if you are one of these people who has nothing bettr to do with your lives than download a load of ****e other people put online then you should be paying through the nose for it!
UPC have 100mb bb which has AUP of 500mb as per the website. i couldnt download that much unless i had a rake of pcs and an endless supply of redbull!
ARRGGHH! Makes me so mad :mad::mad::mad:

Well if it is unlimited broadband, then thats what it should be. If they were out straight with their cap, well then we more than likely wouldn't be having this discussion now. If you download games, movies, or music legally this can increase your limit. If you had a few teenagers in the house, well then you would definetly go over the limit.

As for you getting "mad" for people using their broadband connection to download, well, your better off minding your own business. It's their bb connection and they can use it as they see fit. Im sure you have your own interests that may annoy some people, but they don't moan about it.

Leeg17

Bohrio wrote: »

True, I have seen worse

but in all fairness, how long can you keep that on for?

after a few days I run out of ideas on what to download/watch ... maybe I have no imagination...

My limit's been 15gb/month for the past year. Suffice to say I have a long list of stuff that needs downloading

Nice post Dufffman.

vibe666

ria.rayner wrote: »

For normal famiily use (which does include downloading) you wouldnt get anywhere near the usage limits.
ARRGGHH! Makes me so mad :mad::mad::mad:

and what pray tell is a "normal" family?

there's plenty of normal families who would chew through 250gb in a month no problem, just because you aren't using it, doesn't mean nobody else is.

when i first got the 20mbps broadband (a month before they started enforcing the 250gb AUP) it wasn't that hard to keep within the limits, but that was several years ago and not only is my connection is 50% faster now, but the amount of online content (and its size) has ballooned since that time and i'm constantly watching my usage every month and find myself putting off big downloads until towards the end of the month when i can be sure it's not going to be the thing that pushes me over the limit.

between all the HD video, console & PC games and all the other content that there is online these days it's really not hard at all to chew through 8gb a day if you know what you're looking for and it really is all at your fingertips if you care to look.

when the 100mbps is rolled out to all UPC broadband customers on 9th May I'll be snapping it up, as much for the 10mbps upload as for the 100mbps download, but mostly for the 500gb cap (and it is a cap).

[Deleted User]

ria.rayner wrote: »

What is it with you people???
UPC have massive download limits.
For normal famiily use (which does include downloading) you wouldnt get anywhere near the usage limits.
and if you are one of these people who has nothing bettr to do with your lives than download a load of ****e other people put online then you should be paying through the nose for it!
UPC have 100mb bb which has AUP of 500mb as per the website. i couldnt download that much unless i had a rake of pcs and an endless supply of redbull!
ARRGGHH! Makes me so mad :mad::mad::mad:

^^^
It's Gerry Ryan.!!! :pac:

vibe666

RVP 11 wrote: »

^^^
It's Gerry Ryan.!!! :pac:

you can't keep a good man down.

Kjell

ria.rayner wrote: »

What is it with you people???
UPC have massive download limits.
For normal famiily use (which does include downloading) you wouldnt get anywhere near the usage limits.
and if you are one of these people who has nothing bettr to do with your lives than download a load of ****e other people put online then you should be paying through the nose for it!
UPC have 100mb bb which has AUP of 500mb as per the website. i couldnt download that much unless i had a rake of pcs and an endless supply of redbull!
ARRGGHH! Makes me so mad :mad::mad::mad:

Ria stop and think for a moment. First of all, not everyone uses the internet the same way that you do. Secondly, did you ever consider that this limit is not per person? In other words you could be living in a house with four other people sharing one connection. It is not that hard to go through 250 gigs like that. I guess I am also used to Canada where there are no limits on how much you upload/download.

Thirdly, and most importantly, the main problem with the limit isn't the presence of the limit but the practise of advertising the package as "unlimited" and even directly falsely informing customers that it is "unlimited" when it is not. They also often fail to inform their customers that they have exceeded the limit even as they start debiting large amounts from their bank accounts. One of the reasons I chose UPC over it's competitors was because it was unlimited. I'll just leave it at that. I've said all these things before. But stop and try to put yourself in someone else's shoes before you judge a situation.

And really do not defend a company that is deliberately misleading the public. That is the crux of the matter - not the presence of limits.

DRice

sorry to be lazy but i cant be bothered to read the thread, is the cap on the 20meg package set at 250GB? is there a way to check your usage online?

dub45

DRice wrote: »

sorry to be lazy but i cant be bothered to read the thread, is the cap on the 20meg package set at 250GB? is there a way to check your usage online?

Given your attitude why should anyone bother to reply to your question?:rolleyes:

DRice

dub45 wrote: »

Given your attitude why should anyone bother to reply to your question?:rolleyes:

ha ha i was partly kidding, checked it out its 250gb

i'll do me own research on the online usage monitor unless you wanna put me out of my misery

by the way Dub i think you helped me out with my sony ericsson meteor phone years ago so thanks

johndoe99

DRice wrote: »

ha ha i was partly kidding, checked it out its 250gb

i'll do me own research on the online usage monitor unless you wanna put me out of my misery

by the way Dub i think you helped me out with my sony ericsson meteor phone years ago so thanks

UPC don't have a usage meter (i wonder why

), you can download ShaPlus Bandwidth Meter from here (i use it myself and its free):

http://download.cnet.com/ShaPlus-Bandwidth-Meter/3000-2381_4-10672850.html

bbumerr

Hi Guys,
Kjell any good news in fighting with UPC.
I refused to pay them extra for extreme and was only paying 49.75 as agreed, now they hired debt recover company to get their money. Planning to go to the court! Any advice. Will it worth trying or better pay them? Fighting with them since november with no luck. Contacted ASAI and ComReg with no luck either.

uberdruid

ria.rayner wrote: »

What is it with you people???
UPC have massive download limits.
For normal famiily use (which does include downloading) you wouldnt get anywhere near the usage limits.
and if you are one of these people who has nothing bettr to do with your lives than download a load of ****e other people put online then you should be paying through the nose for it!
UPC have 100mb bb which has AUP of 500mb as per the website. i couldnt download that much unless i had a rake of pcs and an endless supply of redbull!
ARRGGHH! Makes me so mad :mad::mad::mad:

It's freakin 2011, everything is stored on the net and tons of HD audio/video content is streamed! Could you imagine the outrage if they all of the sudden would put caps on 100mbit lines in Europe or the US?! Would you accept a hard cap on your TV time?

If you're used to live in other first world countries where 1080p IPTV is the most normal thing in the world, you are really baffled what's going on here. To be more specific: an 1 hour 1080p stream consumes 5 to 8GB for half-decent quality. I don't have to tell you how fast you would reach your quota, especially in a household with several ppl.

dub45

bbumerr wrote: »

Hi Guys,
Kjell any good news in fighting with UPC.
I refused to pay them extra for extreme and was only paying 49.75 as agreed, now they hired debt recover company to get their money. Planning to go to the court! Any advice. Will it worth trying or better pay them? Fighting with them since november with no luck. Contacted ASAI and ComReg with no luck either.

What sort of response did Comreg give you?

Have you made a formal complaint to Comreg about UPC's behaviour in deliberately deceiving you in their advertising?

Have you also asked Comreg why they do not take action against UPC for formally ignoring Comreg's policy on so called "unlimited" products?

ComReg would like to advise consumers that any provision of a contract which sets usage thresholds, or describes what constitutes ‘fair’ or ‘acceptable’ use, should be clear and unambiguous, particularly where the service is described as being ‘unlimited’.

Usage thresholds or limits should be clearly set out, as should the manner in which they may be updated or amended.

ComReg expects each service provider to implement a clear, transparent and policy for dealing with customer usage above any set thresholds. The policy should set out the rules for contract termination, including penalties, the charges that shall apply for any use above the threshold/limit, and the policy regarding migration of the customer to other packages, if applicable.

http://www.askcomreg.ie/internet/my_provider_has_advertised_an_unlimited_package_–_what_does_that_mean_for_me.5.154.LE.asp

bbumerr

ComReg:
Thank you for contacting ComReg. I apologise for the delay is responding to you. ComReg would not be in a position to take up your complaint. UPC’s decision to impose this restriction forms part of their fair usage policy. If you contest the validity of their fair usage policy and their terms and conditions you can raise the issue with the National Consumer Agency. The NCA can be contacted at ask@consumerconnect.ie . Alternatively you can contact then by phone on 1890 432432 or 01 4025555 .

Secondly if you feel that UPC’s decision to sell the package as ‘Unlimited’ is misleading you can contact the Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland at standards@asai.ie . You can call them on 01 6608766 .

bbumerr

ASAI:
The advertisers submitted information on a confidential basis that showed that the number of customers affected by the fair usage policy was so low that the vast majority of customers would not be affected.
In addition the Complaints Committee considered a similar matter in a Case Report in 2007 whereby the advertising by Vodafone was not upheld on the basis that the advertising carried the caveat that the offer was subject to a Fair Usage Policy. The Committee also considered that the thresholds set by the advertisers were sufficiently robust that the vast majority of customers would not be affected by the thresholds.

bbumerr

I dealt with both bodies in november-january so its probably too late to follow those complains.
and millions of emails to upc but nothing seems to help. So not sure what to do at this stage. Seek of their "scaring" letters.
Before joining in october i checked their AUP T&C and there was no mentioning of any caps. They changed AUP on 6th of November(not sure if the date is right).
1/11 got a letter for excess usage. called them and they said that in last month i have an usage of 254GB. (i was connected on 19/10 so in 10 days i went over a limit when my downloading were same as with previous ISP(170 GB a month)).
Didnt receive any bills for november/december. Got text that my bill for hundred something is available online. Stopped DD straight away but they still want those money for extreme package. Called them few time and asked about usage, they said that they cant provide any tools and info. Was advised not to use my internet completely for a month to see what usage i will get at the end of the month. Of course i have to pay for that month as well. So i was continuing to pay only earlier agreed amount of 49.75 and they suspended my services on 15/02 but billed me till 20/03.
dont know what to do!

Nollog

So what are the asai and comreg getting my tax dollars for if they can't do anything to protect consumers from shoddy practices.
Time to fire off some calls, letters and emails to TD's I think.

parsi

/\/ollog wrote: »

So what are the asai and comreg getting my tax dollars for if they can't do anything to protect consumers from shoddy practices.
Time to fire off some calls, letters and emails to TD's I think.

The ASAI is a "self regulatory" body run by and paid for by the advertising industry. Its a bit like the Medical Council and the Law Society - let the boys regulate themselves and keep out pesky outsiders.

bbumerr

guys edited my earlier post. have a look.

dub45

bbumerr wrote: »

I dealt with both bodies in november-january so its probably too late to follow those complains.
and millions of emails to upc but nothing seems to help. So not sure what to do at this stage. Seek of their "scaring" letters.
Before joining in october i checked their AUP T&C and there was no mentioning of any caps. They changed AUP on 6th of November(not sure if the date is right).
1/11 got a letter for excess usage. called them and they said that in last month i have an usage of 254GB. (i was connected on 19/10 so in 10 days i went over a limit when my downloading were same as with previous ISP(170 GB a month)).
Didnt receive any bills for november/december. Got text that my bill for hundred something is available online. Stopped DD straight away but they still want those money for extreme package. Called them few time and asked about usage, they said that they cant provide any tools and info. Was advised not to use my internet completely for a month to see what usage i will get at the end of the month. Of course i have to pay for that month as well. So i was continuing to pay only earlier agreed amount of 49.75 and they suspended my services on 15/02 but billed me till 20/03.
dont know what to do!

Comreg's response is a disgrace. You should write to them and ask them exactly what is their role if a supposedly "respectable" mulitnational company can deliberately mislead irish Telecom users as to the products they are selling without any fear from the supposed National Regulator.

It is a disgrace when the Joe Duffy show probably packs more punch than the national telecoms non regulator.

You should also ask them formally why as the National Regulator they have not taken action against UPC for not complying with Comreg's own policy on so called unlimited products.

You could also ask Comreg what is the procedure for making a complaint about Comreg.

Also have you asked UPC what software they use to measure downloads? if it is a recognised industry product? have you asked UPC if they have any independent verification of the robustness of the product? Have they a complaints procedure for dealing with issues where customers question the downloads claimed?

bbumerr

Dub45
As you know all of this will take time as a i was waiting for their first answer for few months. Also contacted NCA :

Thank you for contacting the National Consumer Agency (NCA) with your issue regarding your broadband service with UPC.

The NCA is a statutory body established by the Irish Government in May 2007. It aims to defend consumer interests and to embed a robust consumer culture in Ireland. Where a regulator is already in place in a sector we would suggest that you make them aware of your complaint in the first instance.

The query you have raised would fall within the remit of The Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg). They regulate the telecommunications, radio communications, broadcasting sectors and postal services.

ASAI:(sorry for repeating but missed some details,they replied on 24/01/2011, i made complain on 12/11/2010)
I refer to your complaint of 12th November 2010 regarding the above. The delay in responding is regretted.
The function of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland is to ensure that advertisers comply with the requirements of the Code of Standards for Advertising, Promotional and Direct Marketing in Ireland. We are prepared to investigate complaints concerning advertisements that may be considered to be in breach of the Code.
When we received your complaint, we had already received a similar complaint to yours, and had taken
the matter up with the advertiser.
The advertisers submitted information on a confidential basis that showed that the number of customers affected by the fair usage policy was so low that the vast majority of customers would not be affected.
In addition the Complaints Committee considered a similar matter in a Case Report in 2007 whereby the advertising by Vodafone was not upheld on the basis that the advertising carried the caveat that the offer was subject to a Fair Usage Policy. The Committee also considered that the thresholds set by the advertisers were sufficiently robust that the vast majority of customers would not be affected by the thresholds. Please see a copy enclosed.
While we are not pursuing your complaint we are grateful that you took the time to let us know your concerns in the matter.

UPC said that they dont have a tool at present to provide me with to check my usage. but i can get some program myself and monitor it. Program they were referring to was one that you have to pay for. When i asked to tell me on what my allowance was used he said that they cant no ability to see it but kept referring that i used torrents. I said that i didnt and we are watching tv in HD online,everyone is playing so on..

dub45

bbumerr wrote: »

Dub45
As you know all of this will take time as a i was waiting for their first answer for few months. Also contacted NCA :

Thank you for contacting the National Consumer Agency (NCA) with your issue regarding your broadband service with UPC.

The NCA is a statutory body established by the Irish Government in May 2007. It aims to defend consumer interests and to embed a robust consumer culture in Ireland. Where a regulator is already in place in a sector we would suggest that you make them aware of your complaint in the first instance.

The query you have raised would fall within the remit of The Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg). They regulate the telecommunications, radio communications, broadcasting sectors and postal services.

ASAI:(sorry for repeating but missed some details,they replied on 24/01/2011, i made complain on 12/11/2010)
I refer to your complaint of 12th November 2010 regarding the above. The delay in responding is regretted.
The function of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland is to ensure that advertisers comply with the requirements of the Code of Standards for Advertising, Promotional and Direct Marketing in Ireland. We are prepared to investigate complaints concerning advertisements that may be considered to be in breach of the Code.
When we received your complaint, we had already received a similar complaint to yours, and had taken
the matter up with the advertiser.
The advertisers submitted information on a confidential basis that showed that the number of customers affected by the fair usage policy was so low that the vast majority of customers would not be affected.
In addition the Complaints Committee considered a similar matter in a Case Report in 2007 whereby the advertising by Vodafone was not upheld on the basis that the advertising carried the caveat that the offer was subject to a Fair Usage Policy. The Committee also considered that the thresholds set by the advertisers were sufficiently robust that the vast majority of customers would not be affected by the thresholds. Please see a copy enclosed.
While we are not pursuing your complaint we are grateful that you took the time to let us know your concerns in the matter.

UPC said that they dont have a tool at present to provide me with to check my usage. but i can get some program myself and monitor it. Program they were referring to was one that you have to pay for. When i asked to tell me on what my allowance was used he said that they cant no ability to see it but kept referring that i used torrents. I said that i didnt and we are watching tv in HD online,everyone is playing so on..

Just as a by the way when the ASAI become qualified to judge what is an acceptable montly allowance for broadband users???:rolleyes:

So whether an advertisement is honest or not depends on the number of people affected by the dishonesty?

So now dishonestly is no longer objective? And whose figures are they dependent on to make this idiotic misjudgement?

Unlimited means unlimited it is as simple as that.

The crap that is inflicted on us by these idiots!!!!

The Essence of Good Advertising:
All marketing communications should be legal, decent, honest and truthful.

All marketing communications should be prepared with a sense of responsibility both to the consumer and to society.

www.asai.ie

However as far as the ASAI is concerned its ok to deceive a "few" people or a small percentage of the overall customer base and still be "honest". I am sure that all of those who found themselves on on the UPC punishment products were relieved to know that the advertising that helped get them there is considered "honest" in today's Ireland.

bbumerr

So i have to wait till they call me to court or may be i have to do it first.
Again missed some details when upc was looking for their money a send them a cheque just to cover my last month when i had a service from them for 49.75 and said:
as you already disconnected my services then there is no contract between us.
I will enclose a cheque for the amount €49.75 i owe you(to which we both agreed in october). this will cover my broadband till 20/02/2011(but i was disconnected on 15/02/2011). They cashed that cheque.