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Child Item

Being Drunk is Typically Irish Says Trinity Student - But is it ?

CDfm

Everyone has heard of the Jessie J Twitter comment on the Drunkeness at the Trinity Ball.

(for those who haven't here is a link)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0411/1224294390278.html

Reading an article in the IT this morning I see this

Headline act Jessie J was upset by the ‘drunken trampling’ of students at Friday’s Trinity Ball, but it’s not ‘typically Trinity’ to be drunk – it’s typically Irish, argues TCD student DYLAN HASKINS

Now I disagree somewhat.

I used to party but these days dont -age and leaving it to a new generation. Lots of my friends don't party hard. Lots of people I know would disagree with the statement.

There is a part of me that says - alright but there is another excuse for a bash and its highly commercialised and the Trinity SU big payday. There is another part of me that says the Trinity Ball used to be a class event.No more.

Maybe people do not know how to behave at a Black Tie event.

So no Dylan. I don't agree with you. The Trinty Ball is nothing more than a student booze up. Its not typically Irish & I do not know if its typical student.

So the question is typical Irish or not at an event ?

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HavingCrack

I think a few posters have put their finger on it with the violence. WHile peopel get drunk in other countries there definately doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same levels of agression as present in Ireland. I know people who go out 'looking' for fights. What the fcuk is wrong with you in the head that you'd do that? If you want to fight, why not join a boxing club?

Maybe a better question would be-do Irish people enjoy fighting more than other countries?

Logical Fallacy

IngazZagni wrote: »

I disagree. Typically has a similar meaning to commonly, frequently and usual. It does not and never has meant "everything/everyone.

I never said it meant everyone and everything. And you are wrong, typically does not have a similar meaning to commonly, frequently and usual.

It's about the strict meaning of the word and the context in which it was used...the way the writer used it implies ALL Irish people.

It's not that difficult to wrap one's head around the concept of context.

CDfm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It's about the strict meaning of the word and the context in which it was used...the way the writer used it implies ALL Irish people.

It's not that difficult to wrap one's head around the concept of context.

I dont think the writer meant it that way. Rather, that regardless of the event is that it gets sloppy and messy with the heavy drinkers taking over the events.

Thats what seems to have happened at Jessie J where girls passed out drunk and other drunken girls were trampling over them to see the show.

Lots of people are saying that its the fighting & the puking that goes with the scene that is off-putting.

In other countries , this is classed as anti social behavior and either frowned upon or gets a person arrested and charged with an offense but here it doesnt.

Sibylla

This is correct, During rag week the anti social behaviour amongst students was dreadful, It didn't just affect the student areas but residents in nearby areas. My college did nothing to intervene the students union merely overlooked it. In other countries this would not be ignored so easily. Everyone should be able to enjoy going out without it getting to the point where people are passing out or fighting. The idea that this almost the norm here is a worrying trend.

CDfm

Sibylla -I checked to see if I could find something to back up what you said. The most poignant was this.

The Aussies are not as fun loving as I thought.

Irish backpackers fun antics prove annoying to Aussie locals

SOUTH-EAST of Sydney city centre, the districts of Bondi and Waverley are heaving with thousands of backpackers from western Europe living the high life on their year of discovery away from home.
Seeking refuge from the recession and the lack of jobs back home, masses of backpackers — including more than 22,000 Irish — have been lured to the Bondi area by the promise of paradise.
But although they may be enjoying their life experiences, some of the locals are not so happy with their behaviour and concerns are growing over a native backlash against their backpacking visitors.
“They are young, they are out late, they are drinking hard, many are taking drugs, they are away from home and they are often making noise well into the night at 24-hour bars. Trouble is always going to happen,” said Billy Cantwell, editor of the Sydney-based Irish Echo magazine.
“There is certainly a backlash against the backpacker, including the Irish, from locals in that area.”
According to police statistics, between Bondi Junction, Bondi Beach, Bronte and nearby Coogee, 60,000 backpackers at any one time could be resident, with a sizeable proportion coming from Ireland. Such is the high number of young Irish travellers, often spotted in their GAA county jerseys, that the area has been nicknamed “County Bondi”.
Latest figures show that Australia issued 2,501 residence visas to Irish people in the year to the end of June 2009, up from 1,989 in the same period the previous year — an increase of 25 per cent.
In total, there are now more than 70,000 Irish nationals resident long term in Australia, up from 55,000 in 2006; then there are the 22,000 Irish backpackers over there for the 12 months.
’s comments, Patrick Murphy, marketing and entertainments manager at the Cock’N'Bull bar at Bondi Junction, a major haunt for Irish backpackers, said that noise and the threat of drunken violence involving backpackers Police sources in the Bondi area have said that several bars in the area are open 24 hours, and that public order incidents involving Irish backpackers are an increasing problem, with violent altercations on the rise.
“Often on a Saturday night in the nearby A&E, you could have an Irish nurse treating an Irish patient,” said Mr Cantwell.
Echoing Mr Cantwellis a constant problem for bars in the area. Given its location in a residential area, the Cock’N'Bull also has a special phone number which residents call when there is noise late at night. She said: “The vast majority are well behaved, but there is always an ongoing issue with noise late at night. We have a considerable security team who are there to prevent violence but that is not always possible and at times punches are thrown. But we take the issue very seriously and we want to ensure our customers enjoy themselves.”
A local police source agreed. “Most weekends there are problems with Irish or British backpackers down around here. Most of it is low- level stuff, but there’s a constant disturbance to local residents, which is the source of some anger, and from time to time it does get a bit more serious,” the source said.
As a result, some of Irish travellers in the area have said they have experienced a backlash from some locals.
“I’ve been in Australia for over six months now, and in Sydney for over two. I moved into a place close to Bondi Beach,” said Mark Curtin from Dublin, who is travelling with three friends.
“I needed to get a form signed in the police station but was told by the cop that he was tired of having to deal with drunken Irish idiots, as he called them, and refused to sign the form.
“I came back later and dealt with another cop and got the form signed, but it is clear that they [the local Australians] are not so happy with the Irish,” he added.

The article goes on to say that San Diego people dont get the craic either

The problems in Sydney are reminiscent of what happened with J-1 visa students in San Diego in 2004 and 2005, when as many as 8,000 Irish students descended on the town looking for work.
“That summer San Diego was awful, there were far too many Irish there and it was a nightmare trying to get work, trying to get a place to live and eventually getting into bars,” said Matthew Magee, who was 22 when he was in San Diego.
“They saw us as too much trouble and blamed us for wrecking their town.”
SOURCE: Sunday Independent

http://www.skilled-ireland.business-visas-australia.com/irish-backpackers-fun-antics-prove-annoying-to-aussie-locals/

Very reminiscent of what you have said.

And drinks promotions seem to be what British & Irish Student Unions Do.

#
Cheap Drink Promotions Encourage Irresponsible Drinking - UUSU ...
16 Oct 2009 ... “Publicans who are making money from drinks promotions are disregarding ... The Students' Union Vice President added that in addition to the ...
www.uusu.org/news/index.php?page=article&news_id=98675 - Cached
#
Drinks promotions cultivate a binge drinking culture…no matter how ...
24 Aug 2010 ... A Students' Union cannot run drinks promotions alongside sensible drinking campaigns and expect to be taken seriously. ...
catherinewylie.wordpress.com/.../drinks-promotions-cultivate-a-binge-drinking-culture-no-matter-how-innocent-they-may-seem/ - Cached
#
Debate: Should Fresher's Week be banned? - Times Online
26 Feb 2008 ... This is the message Student Unions continue to send out by accepting drinks promotions and failing to provide for students in the first few ...
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and.../student/article3432183.ece - Similar
#
UCD Students' Union Promotion in breach of MEAS - MEAS Online
1 Nov 2009 ... An email promotion by the UCD Students' Union Ents Office has been found ... of Sale Promotions and Materials and Serving of Multiple Drinks ...
www.meas.ie/page.php?intPageID=598 - Cached - Similar

metrovelvet

The J1 visas definitely have a reputation in NY, so do other Irish visitors.

All I can say, is that Dublin on a saturday morning is a disgusting place to walk through as you step over the vomit everywhere.

Ive never seen so much drinking as I have in this country. Its a stereotype, but that doesnt make it a lie.

A more interesting question is why do the Irish need to drink so much?

CDfm

metrovelvet wrote: »

A more interesting question is why do the Irish need to drink so much?

It may be a more interesting question but the thread was generated by Dylan Haskins article and Jessie J's tweet and the comment that it is typically Irish.

In the context of the article the implication is that binge drinking is a part of college life- both here and the UK.

Here is a UL/Mary I factsheet for students who may binge drink to get very drunk.

http://www.mic.ul.ie/counselling/Factsheets/alcohol.pdf

Jessie J's comment was that these young ladies were drunk & incapable of taking care of themselves.

I dont care how much people drink & I dont want the majority taxed to restrict the few. One of the issues is why the rest of us are subjected to their anti-social behavior.

Sibylla

CDfm wrote: »

Sibylla -I checked to see if I could find something to back up what you said. The most poignant was this.

The Aussies are not as fun loving as I thought.

The article goes on to say that San Diego people dont get the craic either

http://www.skilled-ireland.business-visas-australia.com/irish-backpackers-fun-antics-prove-annoying-to-aussie-locals/

Very reminiscent of what you have said.

And drinks promotions seem to be what British & Irish Student Unions Do.

Very interesting article CD FM. I'm not surprised at the findings at all but have never seen anything published before. The alcoholism is a problem amongst all age groups but there is a particular issue with students. In my course the lecture hall is practically empty each monday and friday morning. This wouldn't be acceptable in the workplace and definitely affects grades, If we don't learn to put in hard work at college then when do we? It could be partly due to the celtic tiger where students were being funded by their parents to go partying for four years without their degree getting a moments consideration. It's saddening that the Irish are getting a reputation abroad, I fail to understand why Irish people cannot drink to enjoy themselves not to the point of intoxication where violence, anti social behavior and illness are all a normal ending to the night.

CDfm

Interestingly enough , Trinity College has an alcohol policy

http://www.tcd.ie/about/policies/alcohol.php

It is a joint policy between the College and the Student's Union.

http://www.tcd.ie/Junior_Dean/alcohol_policy/

And here is a report on the Health of Irish Students by National Working Group on Alcohol in Higher Education

http://www.meas.ie/easyedit/files/Clan%20Survey.pdf

This extract from Trinty's A-Z of Courses amused me

Diploma in Addiction Studies

*** Please note that there will be no intake to this course for 2011/12 ***

Introduction

The Diploma in Addiction Studies provides students with an opportunity to explore the complex issues which arise in the context of problematic alcohol and drug use. The course aims to demystify drug and alcohol use and to provide a generic focus in training and education. A broad range of issues is examined at both academic and practice levels and participants leave the programme with skills in at least one of the major addiction counselling models.

ttp://www.socialwork-socialpolicy.tcd.ie/undergraduate/dip-addiction.php

I wonder how the Trinity Ball etc fits in to the Policy as an "Official "Event.

CDfm

It seems though that students nowadays binge drink more and drink more than their peers who are not in college.

So it would seem that the behaviour may not be typically Irish but may be typically Irish Student.

So Jessie J may be right after all and was not over reacting.

25% of the Irish Adult Population do not drink vs 5% of Students.

1 in 4 male students binge drink & 1 in 5 female students binge drink .

And lots of them do not believe they are responsible for their behaviour when drunk. Binge drinking is the norm for students.

.
ALCOHOL
The reasons why most students usually consumed alcohol were for sociability,
enjoyment and relaxation. However, one in ten students used alcohol to
forget worries and one in twenty used alcohol when anxious or depressed.
Although low, more males drank because they were lonely or to be polite, in
10
comparison to females. Almost three-quarters (73%) of all students agreed
that anyone might become violent if they have too much to drink. However,
over one-third (39%) of students thought that when someone is drunk, they
should not be considered as responsible for their actions as when they are
sober. One in five students (19%) thought that it doesn’t matter how much
you drink as long as you don’t show the effects. This perception was more
evident among males and in first and second year students.
The average age when students started to drink was 15 years. A higher
number of male students had started drinking before the age of 14 in
comparison to female students. More third year students had delayed the
onset of drinking until 17 years or older in comparison to first and second
year students. The proportion of non-drinkers among students was 5%, which
was less than a similar age group in the Irish drinking pattern survey10. Male
students drank nearly twice as much as female students. The total volume of
alcohol consumed per head of student was 18.3 litres of pure alcohol for
males and 10.8 litres for females. When compared to the 18-29 age group in
the Irish drinking pattern survey, the reported total alcohol consumption was
higher among students10. Beer was the preferred drink among male students,
similar to the general population. Female students were more divided
between beer and spirits.
Binge drinking at least once a week, defined as drinking at least 4 pints of
beer or a bottle of wine or equivalent in a single session, was common among
males students (61%). For females, 44% of students reported at least weekly
binge drinking, compared with 26% in the drinking pattern survey10. Among
males, first year students had the highest number of binge drinkers and
among females, second year students were the highest. When the frequency
of binge drinking occasions were related to the overall number of drinking
occasions, the results showed that out of every 100 drinking occasions, 76
ended up in binge drinking for male students and 60 for female students.
These figures indicate that this pattern of high-risk drinking is the norm
among college students with more male than female binge drinkers.
However, the number of student female bingers was nearly twice (60% vs
33%) that of a similar age group in the drinking pattern survey, when
measured on binging per 100 drinking occasions10. The men’s health report
also found that binge drinking was highest among young men (18-29 age
group). Such patterns of excessive drinking, according to the report, were
adopted by young men as a sign of their masculinity which was reinforced by
alcohol advertising connecting alcohol and masculinity with sexual prowess
and the achievement of optimum performance in elite sport3.
ALCOHOL RELATED HARM
Not surprisingly, given such high levels of drinking among students, in terms
of the total amount of alcohol consumed and the frequency of binge drinking,
there was a high level and range of harm/problems experienced by college
11
students. As a result of their alcohol use, students experienced harms such as
regretted things said or done after drinking (62%), felt effects of alcohol while
at class/work (50%), missed school/work days (44%) and harmed studies/work
(28%). A higher number of male students experienced these forms of harms in
comparison to their female counterparts. Male students were twice as likely to
have been in a fight, in an accident and had unprotected sex in comparison to
female students. One in four male students and one in five female students
experienced money problems as a result of their drinking. First and second
year students were more likely to have been in an accident or fight or
experienced financial problems and thought they should cut down on their
drinking in comparison to third year students. The prevalence of all the
adverse consequences was higher for all student groups in comparison to a
similar group in the drinking pattern survey10.
As a result of someone else’s drinking, the most often cited consequences
experienced by male students were verbal abuse, passenger with a driver who
had taken alcohol, arguments with friends and family about drinking, property
vandalised and physically assaulted. For female students, the most common
negative consequences, as a result of someone else’s drinking were; verbal
abuse, arguments with friends, relationship difficulties and passenger with a
driver who had taken alcohol. The sexual assault rate, although low, was twice
the rate among first year female students in comparison to second and third
year students. A higher number of first and second year students experienced
verbal abuse, physical abuse, unprotected sex and property damage in
comparison to third year students, as a result of someone else’s drinking.
PROFILE OF STUDENTS WITH HIGH-RISK DRINKING PATTERNS
High risk drinking is a pattern of drinking that is likely to increase the risk of
harm for the drinker and for others. Binge drinking, a form of high risk
drinking, was the norm among college students. To assess to what extent high
risk drinking increases the risk of harm among college students, the dynamics
of binge drinking with a number of key student well-being and welfare
indicators were examined using underlying perceptions about alcohol, student
living conditions, general health, risk-taking behaviours and coping skills.
Students who were regular binge drinkers, defined as binge drinking at least
weekly, were two to three times more likely to experience a range of adverse
consequences as a result of their drinking in comparison to students who
were binge drinking less frequently or non-binge drinkers. Regular binge
drinkers were twice as likely to miss school/work (61% vs 27%), felt alcohol
effects while at class/work (64% vs 28%), reported their studies/work were
harmed (38% vs 18%) and thought they should cut down on their drinking
(43% vs 19%) in comparison to other student drinkers. Money problems,
fights, unprotected sex and accidents were three times more likely to occur
among students who engaged in regular binge drinking. A higher number of
regular binge drinkers in comparison to other drinkers, perceived that the
12
amount of alcohol consumed didn’t matter, provided the individual did not
show the effects and that when an individual was drunk they should not be
considered as responsible for their actions as when sober. A higher proportion
of regular binge drinkers drank for enjoyment and sociability in comparison to
other drinkers. A higher proportion of regular binge drinkers also drank to
forget worries (15% vs 10%) when anxious or depressed, or lonely, or felt they
needed to drink.
Regular binge drinkers spent fewer hours per week on study during college
term and a higher amount of time working in comparison to other students
who drank. Consequently, regular binge drinkers had a higher average
income from work in comparison to others, although they had a similar
income from family and grants. Regular binge drinkers spent less on
accommodation, spent a similar amount on food, but spent twice as much on
alcohol per month (€148) in comparison to other student drinkers (€69).
A higher number of students who drank alcohol but did not binge drink on a
regular basis were more satisfied with their health and perceived their general
health as excellent or very good in comparison to regular binge drinkers.
However, there was no difference in quality of life or perceived mental health.
A higher number of regular binge drinkers participated in sport in comparison
to others. Exams, studies in general and relationships were contributing
sources of stress for both groups. However, for regular binge drinkers, their
financial situation and work outside of college were higher sources of stress.
Regular binge drinkers were more likely to engage in other risk taking
behaviours. They were twice as likely to be smokers and cannabis users and
were more sexually active than other student drinkers. A higher number of
binge drinkers were involved at an earlier age in smoking, drinking and sexual
activity. Methods used to prevent pregnancy were similar for both groups in
relation to condom use, although regular binge drinkers were less likely to use
the contraceptive pill. Half of female binge drinkers had used the morning
after pill, an emergency contraception in comparison to one-third of other
drinkers. The findings of this study support the men’s health report which
showed that binge drinkers were more likely to engage in impulsive risk
taking behaviours3.
Those who were regular binge drinkers were less likely to consider positive
responses to cope with anxiety and depression such as talk to someone or
look for information. However, similar responses were reported for both
groups in relation to poor coping strategies of not wanting to share problems
with others or to try and ignore the problem. A higher number of binge
drinkers reported they would take drugs or get drunk (14%) in comparison to
other drinkers (4%) to cope with anxiety and depression.

3. Alcohol related harm: The extent of alcohol related harm experienced by
college students was particularly high and of major concern. High risk
drinking was very common among college undergraduate students both
in terms of total alcohol consumption and of binge drinking. Although
binge drinking was highest among males, the rate of binge drinking
among female students was almost twice that of a similar age group in
the general population. The likelihood of college students experiencing
problems and harm increased with more frequent binge drinking
episodes. The results from this study show that the drinking pattern
among college undergraduate students clearly has the potential to
interfere with their academic performance, given that many students
missed days, reported their study/work was harmed from drinking and
also felt the effects of drinking while at class/work. The physical well
being and welfare of students was also compromised due to the risk of
fights, accidents, high risk sexual activity, which was also compounded
with financial and relationship problems. Students themselves recognised
they needed to cut down on their drinking and felt their drinking was
harming their health. In addition, regular binge drinkers spent less time in
study and more time in work, and spent more money on alcohol. They
were also more likely to be involved in other risk taking behaviours and
were less likely to use positive coping strategies when dealing with
anxiety and depression.

Translate this behaviour to Bondi, San Diego or the French Alps on a Sky Trip and its no surprise this happens.

Its no surprise that the singer was shocked.

Dylan Haskins wasn't surprised, but, maybe his choice of phrase was wrong.

I wonder what was the casualty rate at the Trinity Ball?

tawnyowl

davetherave wrote: »

Is this the same Dylan Haskins that tried and failed miserably to become an elected representative?

Probably - there's a bit about him here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Haskins

Well sorry to disappoint, but I guess I'm not a typical Irish person then

Me neither - I was never much of a drinker to begin with, but I'm teetotal now.

I'm not sure if binge drinking is worse now than twenty years ago. If it is, it may be that drink is more available, possibly with more money to pay for it.

CDfm

Here is a report on Ireland with other country comparirsons

The Irish drinking culture
- Drinking and drinking-related harm, a European comparison
Mats Ramstedt
Centre for Social Research on Alcohol and Drugs (SoRAD)
Stockholm University
Stockholm, Sweden
and
Ann Hope
National Alcohol Policy Advisor
Department of Health and Children
Dublin, Ireland

http://www.meas.ie/easyedit/files2/irish-drinking-culture.pdf

When you think of it - take boards beers for instance - I have been to 4 or 5 events and beers .

I have a social group & we had an invite from the Nocturnal Forum and the event organisers & though I wasnt there the Mods & Admins hosting the events bring a vibe to it.

I am sure that lots of association, social & sporting events do not detiereorate into shillelaghs at the crossroads.

Age may be a factor, but also things like cultural values from the time when Ireland was an agricultural peasant society and that was not too long ago.