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Should we go Nuclear?

Amtmann

I'm not au fait with power grids and energy generally, but I think this is worthy of serious discussion. So, I'm putting up a poll. Should Ireland go nuclear, as in, should we built nuclear power plants here? What are the pros, and what are the cons? How safe is it? How dangerous is it? What would it cost us, and what would it save? If we committed 100% to renewable energy, would wind and wave vitiate the need for nuclear power, or do we just need to get real? Feel free to pin your colours to the mast and debate away to your hearts' content.

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Comments

DUB777

ArtSmart wrote: »

lets wait til we see what happens with Drumm and Fitz first.

I think Seany Fitz will get away lightly judging by past decisions of our ridiculous judicial system. Drumm is in the s#1t, the Feds are all over him cause he owes the US between $70 & 80 grand & having multiple bank accounts. They are chasing him over a small amount like this[its big to me & my bank balance, but small in the grand scheme of Irelands mess] Cowen, Liam Carroll & all his corporations, Gannon, Paddy & Simon Kelly

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/youre-sorry-not-half-as-sorry-as-we-are-simon-2527321.html

This article says it all, Simon Kelly should be marched into Killmainham & executed by firing squad or let the public stone him to death.
If this was the US he won't be sitting in "his wife's" €5million country mansion, he'd be out on his f00king ear with the rest of the country. If I ever see him I'll give him a hiding. The cheek of him "only €80,000 a year to live on". My mam has worked as a public health nurse for 33 years nearly running up and down flats in her district, looking after those whom are sick, poor[financially] and unable/disabled [whatever the appropriate term is these days] to get a lump sum payment less just than €80,000 as her payout for 33 years of state service. Its just as well his picture isn't published in this on-line article Im sure there are more out there who feel this way[google can always help others tho, see below], but I remember his face & will dance all over him if I ever come across him in person.
:mad: "Only €80,000 a year to live on":mad:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.redquartz.com/export/sites/default/redquartz/images/Staff/Simon_Kelly.jpg&imgrefurl=http://quotesfromthebubble.blogspot.com/2010/04/simon-kelly-former-property-developer.html&h=600&w=420&sz=77&tbnid=v2DTev9eI0uxDM:&tbnh=268&tbnw=188&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsimon%2Bkelly%2Bdeveloper%2Bimages%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=simon+kelly+developer+images&hl=en&usg=__K2-vFc24l2thmGR5MpgBb-8psgg=&sa=X&ei=DO6aTbjvGpCGhQffwaTNBg&ved=0CBgQ9QEwAA

dubhthach

Do you really think if there was €400 billion in oil that it would be sat on? It's all conjuncture there is no proven reserve of that level. Otherwise the Gov would be using the €15billion from Pension fund to setup the irish equivalent of Statoil.

Anyways this thread is about Nuclear power not about Seanie, Bertie or other things not related to the thread. You can discuss those matters in the Politics forum.

DUB777

dubhthach wrote: »

Do you really think if there was €400 billion in oil that it would be sat on? It's all conjuncture there is no proven reserve of that level. Otherwise the Gov would be using the €15billion from Pension fund to setup the irish equivalent of Statoil.

Anyways this thread is about Nuclear power not about Seanie, Bertie or other things not related to the thread. You can discuss those matters in the Politics forum.

If the oil wasn't given away & the gas wasn't given away, we could have some collateral towards this abundant debt the nation is in. We could A) export it at a cost or

use it to self sustain the nation & not have to import oil or gas

:eek:

dubhthach

DUB777 wrote: »

If the oil wasn't given away & the gas wasn't given away, we could have some collateral towards this abundant debt the nation is in. We could A) export it at a cost or use it to self sustain the nation & not have to import oil or gas:eek:

Again as I posted before there is no proven reserves of Oil worth €400billion. If the Oil had been given away surely there would be oil rigs all along the horizon extracting the "stolen oil", the fact that there isn't says lots.

Mod!
The thread is about Nuclear power not speculation regarding unproven potential Oil resources.

bastados

Limerick is the ideal spot for about 5 full sized reactors

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:pac::pac::pac: :pac:

antoobrien

There's been something bugging me about this thread - the constant doubting and running down of our technical expertese. The attitude that: "We're bound to make a mess of it, and even if we get foreigners in to build it we'll make a mess of it" is quite frankly offensive to me, but I haven't been able to figure out why. Until today.

While I was reading about the international reaction to the banking stress test I realised why this concerns me so much - the international business community disagrees with this attitude completely. I work for a large US based software company that has hundreds of (mostly Irish) people employed. There are many thousands of people in this and other high tech industries in Ireland.

More importantly from my point of view we have many thousands of people, particualrly in Pharma in Cork and Healthcare manufacturing in Galway working in some of the biggest Medical devices manufacturers in the world. Many of the Irish operations are some of the few (and in quite a few cases only) places that have FDA approval to manufacture goods for use in the USA - which is hard to get.

If any people (quite a few of whom do not have 3rd level education but are competent, because competence is required in abundence in any manufacturing business) in the Pharma industry screw up the results will more often than not be immediate and can be fatal. Medical devices industry can be in use for 20 years or more, so the relaibility required in manufacturing these items is quite unbelievable.

As a nation we have proved that we can undertake projects that require extreme reliability and are technically difficult, so please get off the soap boxes saying that we can't do this and remember - the high tech & medical multinationals wouldn't be here if we weren't able to do it and do it well.

Hotblack Desiato

Well said. I'm thoroughly sick of hearing the "shure aren't we useless, we're Irish" poor mouth crapola... if only these people knew the contributions that Irish people worldwide have made to science and technology even if we (stupidly) don't use those technologies at home. The first experimental splitting of the atom was carried out by an Irishman. Our media are contributing towards this nationally damaging attitude through both their love of a bad news story above anything else, and the scientific illiteracy of almost all journalists.

dowlingm

antoobrien - the thing about the pharma / medical device / computer device industries is that, given much of their output is exported, they are externally regulated by operations like USFDA or USFCC in addition to whatever national regulations and audits are in force.

Now, think about this for a second. Imagine if our pharma/med/computing sectors were only regulated by the Dept of Health or Dept of Industry.

What then?

Sponge Bob

dowlingm wrote: »

Now, think about this for a second. Imagine if our pharma/med/computing sectors were only regulated by the Dept of Health or Dept of Industry.

What then?

Then they would be like our Telecom sector as regulated by Comreg. :cool:

DUB777

dowlingm wrote: »

antoobrien - the thing about the pharma / medical device / computer device industries is that, given much of their output is exported, they are externally regulated by operations like USFDA or USFCC in addition to whatever national regulations and audits are in force.

Now, think about this for a second. Imagine if our pharma/med/computing sectors were only regulated by the Dept of Health or Dept of Industry.

What then?

There would be bedlam, absolute mayhem. Look at the state of the health service as it is. Unless your with VHI or any of those kind, your f#~ked. Our government has failed us, brown envelopes & back handers left right and center [ not saying kenny & gilmore have failed us], its a bit early for that yet.

DUB777

bastados wrote: »

Limerick is the ideal spot for about 5 full sized reactors

:pac:
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:pac::pac::pac: :pac:

Love it B-)
Limerick citttaaayyyyy :cool:

DUB777

ninja900 wrote: »

Well said. I'm thoroughly sick of hearing the "shure aren't we useless, we're Irish" poor mouth crapola... if only these people knew the contributions that Irish people worldwide have made to science and technology even if we (stupidly) don't use those technologies at home. The first experimental splitting of the atom was carried out by an Irishman. Our media are contributing towards this nationally damaging attitude through both their love of a bad news story above anything else, and the scientific illiteracy of almost all journalists.

& dont forget the submarine;)
Who cares about splitting atoms, why not try to understand the world we live in now & stop making a c0ck and ba11s of it before its too late. The japs took as much precautions as possible to anticipate earth quakes with their power plant & look what happened??? A Tsunami.. Didnt see that coming did they?? The force of water is far beyond mans ability to control.

We dont even have the foresight to build a tunnel that will carry super trucks??
How on earth can you imagine our foresight being when it comes to nuclear power? We need to steer away from that, look at what happened in Three Mile Island in 79, Chernobyl in 86, & Fukishima last month. All serious messes, and its not as if Ireland would have the distance to provide us with a 'safe zone' should a catastrophe like that happen.

Hotblack Desiato

DUB777 wrote: »

Unless your with VHI or any of those kind, your f#~ked.

Off-topic, but I'm fed up of hearing that guff, too. You'd think people were dropping dead in the streets and thrown into plague pits the way some people go on. Our health service is actually not all that bad, there are plenty of areas which can be improved of course but that's true of every country in the world including the ones we're trying to copy. And how is VHI going to help you if you need emergency treatment? - it's not, there are no private A&Es (those clinics that shut down at the very times you're most likely to need them, and treat little beyond minor sprains don't count.)

DUB777

ninja900 wrote: »

Well said. I'm thoroughly sick of hearing the "shure aren't we useless, we're Irish" poor mouth crapola... if only these people knew the contributions that Irish people worldwide have made to science and technology even if we (stupidly) don't use those technologies at home. The first experimental splitting of the atom was carried out by an Irishman. Our media are contributing towards this nationally damaging attitude through both their love of a bad news story above anything else, and the scientific illiteracy of almost all journalists.

And I quote you
"those clinics that shut down at the very times you're most likely to need them"
Is this not another example of stupidity on the Irish behalf???

Thank you ninga, need i say anymore about your "crapola"

Over & out;)

Hotblack Desiato

DUB777 wrote: »

The japs took as much precautions as possible to anticipate earth quakes with their power plant

Not by modern standards, they didn't - these plants were built more than 40 years ago. If they were newer they would have been designed to stricter standards. They simply weren't designed to stand up to that large an earthquake, or that high a tsunami (There were tsunami defences, but not designed for one that large.) But in spite of all that, they stood up very well.

We dont even have the foresight to build a tunnel that will carry super trucks??

Nope, it was decided that the extra cost of making it higher wasn't worth it.

All serious messes, and its not as if Ireland would have the distance to provide us with a 'safe zone' should a catastrophe like that happen.

You bring up the usual two incidents, but both of them were caused by human error in reactors which were (by today's standards for TMI, by any standards for Chernobyl) defectively designed.

Where is Dublin's 'safe zone' if there is a nuclear incident in Wales? They're a lot closer than you think. It's pure hypocrisy to buy British nuclear electricity while opposing its use here.

Hotblack Desiato

DUB777 wrote: »

And I quote you
"those clinics that shut down at the very times you're most likely to need them"
Is this not another example of stupidity on the Irish behalf???
Thank you ninga, need i say anymore about your "crapola"

Over & out;)

It's the PRIVATE pseudo-A&Es that close down at evenings/weekends. Duh.

DUB777

There isn't a safe zone for us if sellafield went up, that'll be on the brits hands like all the blood shed before they left, more to add to their colonial culture.

DUB777

If you look at the news today....
We cant even load to two small boats onto a cargo ship properly...
And we still think nuclear power is a good idea??

The only thing we have going for us is our reputation as good agriculturalists, stick a power plant in & we'll loose that too.

dubhthach

DUB77

I'm failing to see relevance of such to a debate regarding Nuclear power. Please stay on topic, if you wish to discuss VHI or naval salvage there are appropriate forums.

AMcCann

DUB777 wrote: »

If you look at the news today....
We cant even load to two small boats onto a cargo ship properly...
And we still think nuclear power is a good idea??

The only thing we have going for us is our reputation as good agriculturalists, stick a power plant in & we'll loose that too.

Have another look at the News. It wasn't Irish people loading the boat :P

DUB777

AMcCann wrote: »

Have another look at the News. It wasn't Irish people loading the boat :P

, true, but an Irish harbour master was over seeing the operation:p

antoobrien

dowlingm wrote: »

antoobrien - the thing about the pharma / medical device / computer device industries is that, given much of their output is exported, they are externally regulated by operations like USFDA or USFCC in addition to whatever national regulations and audits are in force.

Now, think about this for a second. Imagine if our pharma/med/computing sectors were only regulated by the Dept of Health or Dept of Industry.

What then?

FYI there's no regulation on computing devices, unless you're writing for medical devices - then it comes under medical manufacturing rules which as I already pointed out are covered by the FDA. The point of all that was we already know how to follow standards set out by other people.

Besides which a nuclear plant would automatically answer to the IAEA for safety standards etc, which are regularly revised and updated. We can then add whatever extra safety measures on top of that that we wish.

Sponge Bob

There is a perfectly functional inspectorate in the UK and that is not least why I recommended Wylfa for our nukes. I do not recommend we ever create a Nuclear Inspectorate ourselves, pointless.

We would probably contract the Brits to deliver the fuel cycle, we may contract the French instead but we should contract the Inspectorate and Fuel Cycle and all in one package.

In a worst case we give the job to the Brits/French under some future treaty or other.....imagine a sovereign treaty base in Poolbeg and Gormley looking at it every morning.

dowlingm

antoobrien wrote: »

FYI there's no regulation on computing devices

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/help.html

scotty_irish

This started out as a interesting and informative thread with very well researched and written responses which gave educated and scientifically accurate views of both sides of the nuclear debate. Whilst I would be in favour of Ireland going nuclear, there were some very well written and scientifically accurate responses against. I will always engage in debate with well-informed and knowledgable people and will allow my own views to change if presented with good arguments. I thank everyone who has posted replies of this nature. Then the clueless with no scientific knowledge came along closely followed by the socialists and ruined what was one of the best threads I have ever found on boards. Mods could you please clean up all the off topic and non-sensical replies which take away from the many very informative posts which people clearly spent a long time writing?Thank you.

yawnstretch

scotty_irish wrote: »

This started out as a interesting and informative thread with very well researched and written responses which gave educated and scientifically accurate views of both sides of the nuclear debate. Whilst I would be in favour of Ireland going nuclear, there were some very well written and scientifically accurate responses against. I will always engage in debate with well-informed and knowledgable people and will allow my own views to change if presented with good arguments. I thank everyone who has posted replies of this nature. Then the clueless with no scientific knowledge came along closely followed by the socialists and ruined what was one of the best threads I have ever found on boards. Mods could you please clean up all the off topic and non-sensical replies which take away from the many very informative posts which people clearly spent a long time writing?Thank you.

Seem to be missing something there...

"IMO"

Oh yeah, that's it.

This isn't a wiki. This is a forum. Modding is for expletives and spam. Mods shouldn't be encouraged to impose their opinions more than absolutely necessary on the conversation.

Judgement Day

DUB777 wrote: »

http://www.wsm.ie/story/2187:p
If you read your history on the the corruption that went on back then & the corruption that goes on now, you'd know:pac::pac:

:mad:Bertie Ahern if you read this your a b0110x, a patriotic sell out:mad:

I don't have to read up on it - I was alive at the time and a shareholder in Tuskar Resources and Providence Resources. There was never commercially viable quantities of oil discovered - at least not worth extracting at 1980/90s prices. Have to agree about Bertie though - a thorough going gob****e.

Judgement Day

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is a perfectly functional inspectorate in the UK and that is not least why I recommended Wylfa for our nukes. I do not recommend we ever create a Nuclear Inspectorate ourselves, pointless.

We would probably contract the Brits to deliver the fuel cycle, we may contract the French instead but we should contract the Inspectorate and Fuel Cycle and all in one package.

In a worst case we give the job to the Brits/French under some future treaty or other.....imagine a sovereign treaty base in Poolbeg and Gormley looking at it every morning.

http://antoinette-sandbach.blogspot.com/2011/03/could-fukushima-happen-at-wylfa.html

Great call! The dogs in the street know about North Wales being in an area known for earthquakes. :rolleyes:

DUB777

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is a perfectly functional inspectorate in the UK and that is not least why I recommended Wylfa for our nukes. I do not recommend we ever create a Nuclear Inspectorate ourselves, pointless.

We would probably contract the Brits to deliver the fuel cycle, we may contract the French instead but we should contract the Inspectorate and Fuel Cycle and all in one package.

In a worst case we give the job to the Brits/French under some future treaty or other.....imagine a sovereign treaty base in Poolbeg and Gormley looking at it every morning.

Or alternatively we could get Chevron to contract it out to all the unfortunate eejits whom got stung by the BER scam[€2000+VAT per course,€1000+VAT registration & €100+VAT for the test & another €100 +VAT every year] & Daren't I forget to mention the €25euro+VAT for EVERY BER cert issued. It was a money making scam. Same as the water meter installers, course price is plain as day in front of you, but they dont tell you about other hidden costs. They're now out trying to sting people with water meter installer €395 for a day course & €995 for a 3 day course. Is VAT inclusive in those prices? & how much for registration?? 'only' another grand plus VAT.. How much for each meter installed?? You'll have to wait til you do the course and see:mad:.
I'd be very surprised if Chevron[ being the money making scam it is] doesn't hop on the nuclear band wagon should Ireland decide to go nuclear.

We'll have 10,000 assesors for 1 nuclear station

B0110x'es draining people of their savings for a dead end job with all those hidden costs incurred. & with the prices some chaps are doing the BER's for, they're earning less than the minimum wage between time to & from the job, measuring up, entering into DEAP, printing out the cert. I also forgot to mention indemnity insurance whatever the price of that is +VAT:rolleyes:

I was an f~#king gob s#1te who got stung along with many by their BER setup.
I wont be a f#~king gob s#1te who gets stung with the water meter courses & I hope they're wont be many unfortunates stung by them again. Should you read this & know anyone considering it, let them know there are lots of hidden costs incurred.

CHEVRON SHAME ON YOU!!!

yawnstretch

Japan has decided to raise its assessment of the accident at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant from 5 to the worst rating of 7 on an international scale. http://nyti.ms/hxfzji