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RTÉNL Saorview-DTT Public Information

The Cush

Two new documents added to the RTÉNL Saorview webpage - http://www.rtenl.ie/broadcast/saorview-digital-television.html and also link to the Saorview Coverage Checker

- Connecting a Television Set to SAORVIEW - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/connecting_a_television_set_to_saorview.pdf
- RTÉ NL SAORVIEW FAQ's - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rtenl_saorview_faqs_feb_2011_rev_1.pdf

To be read in conjunction with the Saorview-DTT-October2010 brochure and Saorview-DTT Minimum Receiver Requirements.

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Elmo

watty wrote: »

You definitely do stuff based on weather, not the date. As a child I wore my duffel coat on on the Portrush beach in July

Ah so RTÉ NL will be getting advise from MetÉireann as to when Spring is ending. Your the technical guy I didn't realist that the end of spring was the best time to launch a new service.

I would say the equinox begins the change from from Autumn to Winter and from Spring to Summer.

Which just past meaning we are in mid-Spring (Mar 20)
The solstice is on June 21 mid-Summer

So taking these dates in to consideration Spring ends in 10 weeks, May 15th see the end of Spring, mean RTÉjr and RTÉ 1 +1 will start on May 14th 2011.

ICDG is going to go ape **** with these posts!

watty

I think the date was deliberatly vague as with engineering it's not done till it's finished.

Sam Russell

There is also the fact that an election was going to happen/ did happen, and that could change everything, or perhaps nothing. Not to mention McCracken.

icdg

Elmo wrote: »

1.

ICDG is going to go ape **** with these posts!

Indeed. What is this now, the weather forum!!!! Back on topic!

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is also the fact that an election was going to happen/ did happen, and that could change everything, or perhaps nothing. Not to mention McCracken.

I don't think the dates have anything to do with the election. The SI stated October 29th 2010, if they had kept to the SI much of this would have been launched with in months of that. As I said before once the SI was signed RTÉ should have put forward its plans for new channels, which would have preceded The Green Party's November press conference and Fianna Fails in house jitters and motions of No Confidence in Cowen. Elections dates really should bare no relevance indeed the time scale was way outside political events.

Instead what we got was, The SI signed, no news until the "trial" at which point RTÉ put forward their plans for new channels, at which point it goes to public consultation and to the BAI which takes months to get to the department (even though the department are carrying out the public consultation). Not only that but we have the fact that the BAI board only meet once a month, mean that if nothing happens in one month they meet and if something happens the following day they meet 30 days later to decide on the matter :mad:

Then Carey signs it for the benefit of TV3 (rather then the viewing public) note that the BAI didn't mention any other channel in their letter to the minister. And then finally the BAI decide to look at other channels for the PSB mux :mad:

mike65

Warning!

Tina Leonard is going to enlighten the public about the digital switchover on Pat Kennys show a bit later.

Should be good for a laugh.

The Cush

mike65 wrote: »

Warning!

Tina Leonard is going to enlighten the public about the digital switchover on Pat Kennys show a bit later.

Should be good for a laugh.

Tina's always good for a laugh, based on her previous discussion in relation to DTT on the PK radio show a year and half ago - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62753435&highlight=tina+leonard#post62753435

mike65

Did I fall sleep or have they ditched this item?

jabarrett35

I think it was cancelled he may say something at the end of the show.

Elmo

Can someone explain MHEG 5 from a viewers perspective what it can provide. Can it provide extra VOD features?

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Can someone explain MHEG 5 from a viewers perspective what it can provide. Can it provide extra VOD features?

I presume it can provide anything that RTE want it to provide.

1. Teletext
2. EPG
3. Interactive 'Red Button' services (or in our case - Green Button), say select video streams of sporting events as the Beeb does for Wimbledon
4. Games like Pacman etc.
5. Allow regional content to be stitched in, the way the Beeb aught to handle the HD channels on Freesat but do not.
6. Allow connection to the internet (if they had not forgotten to include internet access in the spec).
7. Whatever you're having yourself.

It is utterly flexible.

watty

you can even have Red, Green, yellow, Blue and text buttons all launch different applications from viewing screen.

Like iTune Apps, except on TV and App and Data delivered by Aerial, use of Internet on suitable equipment can be interactive too.

Limited by Imagination.

More and more TVs and PVRs do have network connections. many boxes /TVs with USB host port can be updated to take a WiFi USB dongle

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

you can even have Red, Green, yellow, Blue and text buttons all launch different applications from viewing screen.

Yes, but it sounds better to say green, given where we live.:)

watty wrote: »

Like iTune Apps, except on TV and App and Data delivered by Aerial, use of Internet on suitable equipment can be interactive too.

.... whatever RTE want it to do.:)

watty wrote: »

Limited by Imagination.

Yes, whatever your having yourself.:rolleyes:

watty wrote: »

More and more TVs and PVRs do have network connections. many boxes /TVs with USB host port can be updated to take a WiFi USB dongle

But the Saorview spec does not include internet connection, so they cannot include it.:mad:

copacetic

Sam Russell wrote: »

But the Saorview spec does not include internet connection, so they cannot include it.:mad:

The Saorview spec is a 'minimum' specification. It doesn't preclude adding any other features.

eg, here is an approved sony with built in wifi
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/t46-hx-series/kdl-55hx923#pageType=Overview

and one with ethernet
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/t32-ex-series/kdl-32ex723#pageType=TechnicalSpecs

Elmo

Is all of this reliant on having an Internet connection?

Lets just take the signal on its own with out the additional cost of an Internet connection by the consumer.

watty

It's totally allowed to have ethernet, WiFi, fibre optic, hdd, BluRay recorder, Coffee maker and pop corn machine etc added as long as the minimum spec is met.

It all works without an Internet connection, except for things like RTE player.

All without Internet

1. Teletext
2. EPG same on all Models, with filters, search etc.
3. Interactive 'Red Button' services (or in our case - Green Button), say select video streams of sporting events as the Beeb does for Wimbledon
4. Games like Pacman etc.
5. Allow regional content to be stitched in, the way the Beeb aught to handle the HD channels on Freesat but do not.
6. Allow connection to the internet (if they had not forgotten to include internet access in the spec).
7. Whatever you're having yourself.

8. even have Red, Green, yellow, Blue and text buttons all launch different applications from viewing screen

9. Access ADDITIONAL content not on 1 to 8 via Internet if you have Internet.

There is MHEG programming possible to do animation, games, Video in Window from hidden mosaic stream and fetch information from Broadcast or Internet (if implemented).

From my study of MHEG5 though, any coffee maker, beer dispensing, popcorn cooking would have to be Manufacturer GUI, no MHEG5 programming of it possible.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

It's totally allowed to have ethernet, WiFi, fibre optic, hdd, BluRay recorder, Coffee maker and pop corn machine etc added as long as the minimum spec is met.

Okay but are they extra features "what ever your having yourself" reliant on an Internet connection of some kind?

For example if I want to see a weather report with Jean Byrne do I need to go online? or Can Saorview just have it by pressing the red button now.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Okay but are they extra features "what ever your having yourself" reliant on an Internet connection of some kind?

For example if I want to see a weather report with Jean Byrne do I need to go online? or Can Saorview just have it by pressing the red button now.

If RTE had a video stream of Jean Byrne in her cutaway dress on Stream 1, and Brian O'Driscoll scoring his try on Stream 2, etc., then these could be selected using a coloured button. However, the stream has to be in the mux. It could also be a selection of still pictures, also embeded in the mux.

They could make News Now a much more interactive channel, for example removing the side bars, unless selected by a coloured button.

We shall see how much imagination RTE have.

watty

It can 4 videos or 6 videos in one stream in Mosaic. (used by Sky, BBC, ITV and advertisers). Then the MHEG5 application can select one part of "screen" and make that fill entire screen or a window with menus etc.

The "what ever your having yourself" was a bit flippent. The MHEG5 system only has what content RTE, TV3 and TG4 put on it.

The Cush

mike65 wrote: »

Did I fall sleep or have they ditched this item?

Discussion later this morning on the Pat Kenny radio show, not sure if it includes Tina Leonard.

Edit:

13 min.discussion with Tina Leonard - http://www.rte.ie/radio1/todaywithpatkenny/2011-03-28.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNvaekmyBJI

FAQ from the website

Consumer Affairs
With Tina Leonard

The digital switch

Since last Thursday you may have seen or heard the first ads from Saorview letting us know that late next year analogue television will be switched off.

But you don’t have to do anything now, and you won’t need to buy a new TV. However, by the end of next year if you haven’t prepared you could be looking at a blank screen.

So just what will happen, what do you need to do and how much will it cost?

Tina Leonard has been looking into it.

What is the digital switchover?

We have had the current analogue TV system since 1962 and now EU rules have given the end of 2012 as the final date for analogue TV to be switched to digital across Europe.

Digital TV offers more channels, better picture and sound quality, on screen programme guides and new interactive services.

Saorview is the digital television service, owned and managed by RTÉ, who have been charged with implementing this switch, as per EU rules, by the end of 2012. As the name suggests it is a free-to-air television service.

By this May it will already be accessible to 97% of the population, but by the end of 2012 it will completely replace the current service.

What channels will be provided?

Basically the channels are the same as those currently available for free but because more channels can be carried on a digital service there will be extra.

According to RTE the 2010 viewing statistics show that all of the 100 most watched TV programmes in Ireland are carried on the channels provided.

TV Channels:
RTÉ One
RTÉ Two HD
TV3
TG4
RTÉ News Now – news bulletins (current online news content for broadcast)
3e
RTÉjr – Daytime only for children. No advertising.
RTÉ One + 1 – Evening on same channel as above. RTE 1 programmes one hour later. No advertising.
RTÉ Aertel Digital

Radio Stations:
RTÉ Radio 1
RTÉ 2fm
RTÉ lyric fm
RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta

RTÉ Choice
RTÉ Pulse
RTÉ 2XM
RTÉ Gold
RTÉjr
Radio 1 Extra

What do you have to do?

There are 1.6million TV households in Ireland. Some will have to buy a set-top box to get the new services, others will have to do nothing.

1. Subscribers to UPC / Sky

You don’t have to do anything. The majority of TV households in Ireland (around 1 million) subscribe to either Sky or UPC and will continue to receive the Irish channels as now.

In fact UPC are obliged to carry the four primary Irish TV channels. Sky, while not obliged, provide this service also. However, it is not confirmed yet if Sky or UPC will provide the additional digital channels provided by Saorview.

2. Aerial users

The next biggest group of TV users amounting to 594,000 Irish households (37%), receive some television service through an aerial, with over half of those exclusively using an aerial. If your TV only uses an aerial you will have to buy a Saorview approved set top box (for each TV) to get the new television service.

Currently the Saorview approved box costs around €100 but as more competition enters the market, the price is likely to come down, so you’d be best advised to wait a while. In addition, there may be a government subvention scheme but details are yet to be announced. Once you have the box, the service is free, as now.
(The two Saorview approved boxes currently available are by Walker and Triax and Samsung and Sony have Saorview approved TVs. More are currently being tested. The Triax box also has a PVR (series link / recording) facility.) Other boxes are available on the market but Saorview recommend choosing one with the Saorview approved sticker).

Warning: If you have a very old aerial you might need a new one or it might be facing the wrong direction:

If you are using an aerial but currently don’t receive TV3 (just RTE1, 2 and TG4), then your aerial may be fine but it may be pointing in the wrong direction. If you don’t get TV3 or TG4 through your aerial then you may need a new UHF aerial to receive Saorview. This will cost approximately €140 - €160.

3. Free-to-air satellite users

This is the fastest growing market as consumers seek to avoid paying monthly subscriptions, and users in this category have grown by 39% in one year to 162,000 households or 10% of the market.

With free-to-air you buy a box and a satellite dish for a one off fee and after that have no subscription. Free-to-air doesn’t provide Irish channels but if you are using an aerial currently as well to get the Irish channels you’ll need to buy a Saorview set top box. There are also combination freesat and Saorview compatible set-top boxes available. For free-to-air prices range from €125 upwards and you’ll pay more to have it installed. Bear in mind that if you are currently subscribing to Sky and cancel your contract with them, you can keep your dish so won’t need to buy another if you buy a free-to-air box instead.

4. If you live near the border or in the South East

If you live near the border with Northern Ireland or in the South East (mainly Wexford), most likely you currently receive the UK channels for free as the analogue overspill from UK services.

The switchover in the UK has already begun and is happening on a region-by-region basis. In Wales, for example, the digital switchover has already occurred so if you are living in Wexford and can currently receive UK digital overspill through your aerial then the Saorview box should decode it for you.

If you live near the border and currently receive analogue overspill UK services from Northern Ireland via an aerial, you may continue to receive digital UK overspill after the analogue signal is turned off in both jurisdictions at the end of 2012. You will still need the Saorview approved box though.

5. If you are buying a new TV

You do not need to buy a new TV but if you are planning on buying a new TV set anytime soon, make sure you buy an integrated digital television (iDTV), as then you won’t need to buy a set top box at all. The Irish system is Mpeg 4 compatible (same as Scandinavia). The UK’s freeview service operates under Mpeg 2 although their newer TVs are also Mpeg 4 compatible. If in doubt, ask the sales assistant.

Can you get Saorview now?

From the end of May Saorview will be accessible to 97% of the population. To see if Saorview is available in your area now you can log on to their website and input in your address to find out.

For further information: www.saorview.ie / locall 1890 222012

mike65

BUMP!

Tina Leonard is on

Explaining the current multi-platform environment in a clear concise fashion it something of challange.
I suspect most casual listeners are now utterly confused.

Macy0161

mike65 wrote: »

Explaining the current multi-platform environment in a clear concise fashion it something of challange.
I suspect most casual listeners are now utterly confused.

She's probably doing better than the last time I heard her talking TV options a few months ago - she didn't even mention FTA Satellite back then, and just discussed UPC v Sky!

mike65

Its a subject which isn't conducive to words, something one needs to read about. But as you say all the angles got a mention this time.

Sam Russell

mike65 wrote: »

Its a subject which isn't conducive to words, something one needs to read about. But as you say all the angles got a mention this time.

Except Freesat. The point was made that FTA satellite would not carry RTE and an aerial would be needed.

Also, she never mentioned that receiving TV3/TG4 from an aerial would indicate an aerial that would receive Saorview.

[Deleted User]

She covered most bases somewhat awkwardly at times for us here in the know..
Mentioned mpeg4 for new tv's and that uk tv's were going mpeg 4 so border areas and wexford will get uk and saorview.

She didnt mention freeview hd.
Oh and she didnt know or mention the mt leinster ch45 debacle in wexford.

mike65

She had a finite amount of time!

huggs2

Do these people have to go on about having to buy a box when the tv is likely to be able to receive it like my tv. There was also no mention of Saorsat for those peole who were not able to get Saorview.

Elmo

huggs2 wrote: »

Do these people have to go on about having to buy a box when the tv is likely to be able to receive it like my tv. There was also no mention of Saorsat for those peole who were not able to get Saorview.

Are we expecting Saorsat trials in May? Or have they begun?

mike65

Saorsat was mentioned and noted that there were no details regarding the introdcution.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Are we expecting Saorsat trials in May? Or have they begun?

This is the latest info from the Saorview website

RTÉNL is currently in the process of developing and testing a free-to-air satellite service, SAORSAT, which will make it possible for 100% of the population to access Irish free-to-air digital television channels and services. This will provide coverage to the homes not covered by SAORVIEW.

RTÉNL expect to be able to make more information publicly available about this new service in late 2011.

http://www.saorview.ie/what-is-saorview/saorsat/