ronano wrote: » I think the credit option or a variation of it is a good idea but I still think a certain amountvof cash is needed for general day to day. I got to lol at the busfare/shirt comment you've never been in the depressing situation of stepping inside a Dole office. they would take 4 weeks to approve you for busfare and shirt. there needs to be reform on both sides of the Dole issue,how its run from employees side and allocated to the public. my only problem really with your suggestion is how does it combat public waste,the same amount is giveñ out,only difference is what its spent on,I'd imagine roughly the same money is put into the economy,if anything people needed for paperwork along with paperwork itself make it more wasteful. bad post written on phone
padma wrote: » good idea, maybe in time peoples wages can be structured along those lines, to pay the bills, petrol in the car, maintenance fees, food stamps so ye can make sandwiches going to work. One flask with a tea bag for every work day. Help get this little country out of the mess it's in. Maybe stop people buying their own brand new cars on finance and go in to a pooling system. That way the economy will really see no cash at all.
fliball123 wrote: » Aggreed the gov need to get the system in place before going over..I mean it would be fairly simple ala a credit card...It just cuts out ****e like micky money day...and people taking the piss out of it
Nhead wrote: » What about bringing back the poorhouse?
Spudmonkey wrote: » As opposed to un-constructive remarks like this, perhaps you would have an idea how to stop spending 2/3s of the governments yearly intake on welfare??
fliball123 wrote: » I sense some sarcasm...look if your working your geting your money on your on steam..If you want to blow it all on a horse..stick it up your ass or up your nose thats your business but when the tax payer is paying this bill its our business how its spent..and there would be no effect on the economy....as it should only be allowed used in Ireland so there is no chance of taking this card abroad. In fact the amount of people I know saying ahh sure I have saved the childrens allowence I am going on holiday with this..Surely this is a good thing or am I being naive?
fliball123 wrote: » I mean I am not saying to pay less by all means give the same amount all this does is it keeps the money in Ireland, it stops it being frivilously being spent on binges and other sh1te...I dont see how anyone on the dole could say that they are being hard done by unless they are spending this cash on luxuries and if they are well then they should not be getting it
padma wrote: » In essence what I'm actually getting to is the idea of getting rid of money altogether. As if half a million people are not receiving cash, plus the other quarter of a million on mickey mouse adult education schemes, sure thats a large portion of the country with no cash, why doesnt everyone do this, happy days for all. Look, everytime someone on the dole fills their car up with petrol 50/60% goes to the taxman, same as you. The only difference really is you pay a tax on the money you earned, thats the only extra tax you paid in comparison to someone on the dole, not too bad if your still getting a few extra hundred quid a week than them. We need to be careful, talking about the unemployed in the way you are is lets face it stereotypical. I'm sure you know plenty of people out of work for a year or so who are so in debt they can't move outside their house. Some have committed suicide due to the financial burdens they've found themselves in. As for the two lads who refused 28k a year, the employer should have hired someone who has a mortgage, he did get 200 odd c.v's
fliball123 wrote: » emm lets look at this in detail Padma The country is broke. My tax has been increased to the point where I am left with about 30 quid a week for non essentials ... the typical tax payer not only pays tax, they pay to get in and out of work, they pay rent/mortgage they must pay house and life insurance if you have a mortgage...not to mention heating, lighting and food So the person on the dole gets allowence for rent or if they have kid paid for in full .. plus heating lighting and the rest.. In fact a friend of mine is on the dole he has a kid and he has more expendable cash at the end of the week than I do...How is that fair? I have said I wouldnt cut the level of money given I would just transfer it to credit and cut out people being able to take this cash out of the country and cut out people going on benders or holidays with it.. Dont get me wrong I was unemployed back in the early 90s for a couple of weeks and it did me no harm...I think the suicides have a lot more to do with the individual than the unemployment..Could be wrong on that do.... The employer in entitled to get the best person for the job which these 2 guys were...Employers should report people who do not take up jobs
padma wrote: » I see your point, though you have to admit people who work also take their money out of the country on holidays. As for going on a bender, sure the tax man gets that anyway. The only thing I can see really is cash is a problem for everyone. My friend for example lost his job, gets 188 euro a week, 4 euro during winter for heating, and 15 euro a month for mortgage relief. He has no money. He is on the dole. He's credit card is maxed. He has a loan out he can't repay. He is constantly in and out of the bank looking for an extension on a moratorium. Fact is he doesn't get his lighting and heating paid for, he doesn't get his mortgage paid for. He is out of work a year now and the prospects of a job haven't appeared. Minimum wage jobs aren't there anymore. He would take on a minimum wage job but hasn't had any luck probably because he is overskilled. What I'm saying is you aren't the only one in a bad situation and the welfare isn't the gravy train that your making it out to be for a large proportion of the recipients on it.
zom wrote: » I red someone on that forum telling that he works with foreigner who use to save his salary and use to buy new cars or go for overseas holiday. THEY SHOULD INTEGRATE with society and spend their salary on beer and horses HERE, in IRELAND!
later10 wrote: » The civil service cannot even means test children's allowance allocations to to time and expense, can you imagine extending such regulation to every single expenditure by social welfare recipients from a box of matches to a sack of potatoes? Your average person probably engages in about ten financial transactions per day; multiply that by over 400,000 people signing on and staff arbitrarily deciding what expenses are necessary and which are not? Jesus, where do people get these hare brained ideas? Do people actually think that is a runner, or is it just some odd chip on their shoulder about welfare? Surely it would be better to just come out and oppose welfare in itself as opposed to such an expensive, time consuming and downright messy and hugely subjective approach as this.
fliball123 wrote: » Is he not living in the house without paying a mortgage??? if he is this is essentially getting it for free ..in this country its very hard to take a house off someone.. The problem is do that the tax payer is paying for this and it is unsustainable
Spudmonkey wrote: » Even thought this is probably only a small proportion of people who are most likely long term welfare recipients, why should they get money to spend on this and then cry fowl when their amount is reduced.
gambiaman wrote: » You do know Child Benefit is a universal allowance? You keep mentioning the 'dole' as if it that encompasses every welfare payment in the country. For the purposes of your thread, I'm assuming the child benefit holiday savers are out of work as well? (just so it fits in with your OP) How about immediately ceasing payment of this welfare to everyone? That'd save a heap, no? Instead of finding ways to further demean people who have lost their livelihoods, why not stop referring to every benefit in the country as the 'dole', distinguish in your posts who your anecdotal child benefit holiday savers are and come up with something a bit more novel and less stupid than food stamps and loans of suits for interviews. If you are ever unfortunate enough to lose your job wouldn't this be better and fairer for you being on 'the dole' (depending on your employment track record of course): 1st year of unemployment: 80% of salary paid (maybe a max ceiling)- no other benefit after that, everything is means-tested, maybe a sliding scale over further years so that welfare can be targetted to those who actually need it after all that is the purpose of it. For that universal social welfare allowance of child benefit - means tested from the start for everyone.
zom wrote: » You've got me wrong. I meant that most foreigners are actually very humble people who don't spend their money frivolously on beer or computer games. And they can live for much less than REGULAR IRISH. Even if they have to rent or paid for school.
fliball123 wrote: » How have I demeaned anyone?? Fair enough Childrens allowence is a uni social whatever...Its still being misused. I like your unemployement strategy...its simular to the German one...But the main point is that our system is not condusive to getting people back to work. The dole should be credits and it should not be allowed to be used for luxuries. Childrens allowence should also be credits which should only be used for paying for childs well being
padma wrote: » All well and good but the reality is there is a major lack of jobs out there, so how can people get back to work when there isn't any work there for them.
fliball123 wrote: » I have said currently to keep the welfare at the same rate or maybe another small cut.. by making this available as credit. It will ensure the money stays in Ireland and it will also stop the misspending of many who have other revenues (black market, fellas living with them). There needs to be an over all of our expenditure system from Dole, Childs allowence, ps spending
padma wrote: » There is a lot of people who own businesses hiding money too as we all know. Maybe it's in human nature to try and avoid paying a tax on anything really. Look at drug dealing, a billion euros a year, not being taxed, prostitution, massive money not being taxed. The current answer is to spend millions on trying to stem the flow of illegal drugs, cigarettes and prostitution.
fliball123 wrote: » They clue is in the the illegal part...Sure they would get no tax anyway as they are ILLEGAL. If a self employed person is caught cooking the books they get hammered with fines and we are not paying out over 22 billion to subsidise the above
padma wrote: » And when a drug dealer is caught we pay for a few years inside prison for them. Anyway I'm off to work, have a great day folks, but be easy on the unemployed please.
