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Child Item

CID v Permanent

Feeded

how do secondary teachers feel about the CID v Permanent issue?

After speaking with an ASTI rep recently, i was informed that the CID is
just another way of ensuring permanency for teachers. That's fine but a friend of mine who teaches in a similar kind of school to mine, was made permanent last week, after 3 years of being in the school......

To be considered Permanent is different to being told your are on a contract of indefinite duration. Confidence, morale and the overall sense of belonging is boosted by Permanent status....you are part of the furniture.

I'm in my school ten years. I have a CID. I will never have Permanent status because if CID meant the same it would be CALLED Permanent.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

(.....and nobody better say "you're lucky to have a job!"...)

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gaeilgegrinds1

Happened in ours too, except it wasn't next in line, frustration central!

implausible

This is infuriating! The whole CID thing is law and it makes logical sense, so why can'tevery sector just stick to that system and use it?! VECs, voluntary secondary schools and the Dept. seem to be using these terms interchangeably and using the confusion as a loophole to avoid giving permanencies (by any name), when it suits:mad:.

gaeilgebeo

deemark wrote: »

This is infuriating! The whole CID thing is law and it makes logical sense, so why can'tevery sector just stick to that system and use it?! VECs, voluntary secondary schools and the Dept. seem to be using these terms interchangeably and using the confusion as a loophole to avoid giving permanencies (by any name), when it suits:mad:.

So true! :mad:

Miss Lockhart

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Out of interest, are you a VEC school?

Yes it is a VEC school. Many people have had 22 hours CID for years and everyone was happy enough with that, but suddenly two of them were offered permanency.

rainbowtrout

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Yes it is a VEC school. Many people have had 22 hours CID for years and everyone was happy enough with that, but suddenly two of them were offered permanency.

I bet they didn't refuse it either.

Miss Lockhart

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I bet they didn't refuse it either.

Of course not - why would they?

Rodar08

Can someone explain something to me .... I feel like nothing is offered to me or other subs in my school .... what's the story about being offered a CID after 4 years in the school. I started in my school in November 2006. I've never been given set hours. All I ever do is answer the phone to random days of subbing either in the evening or between 8 and 9 in the morning. :rolleyes:

gaeilgebeo

Rodar08 wrote: »

Can someone explain something to me .... I feel like nothing is offered to me or other subs in my school .... what's the story about being offered a CID after 4 years in the school. I started in my school in November 2006. I've never been given set hours. All I ever do is answer the phone to random days of subbing either in the evening or between 8 and 9 in the morning. :rolleyes:

You've no set hours = no contract = no entitlement to a CID.

namoosh

There are a few people in my centre on CID, they have been there since the mid 90's as literacy tutors, the budget for literacy hours has been cut by 5% and the teachers on CID hours have been cut by 5% those that are permanent are unaffected.

rainbowtrout

namoosh wrote: »

There are a few people in my centre on CID, they have been there since the mid 90's as literacy tutors, the budget for literacy hours has been cut by 5% and the teachers on CID hours have been cut by 5% those that are permanent are unaffected.

Were they working in excess of the hours stated on their CID. Eg. If a teacher has a CID for 15 hours and is working 20 hours, the principal is only obliged to give them a minimum of 15 hours, the excess which they get paid for is not part of their contract. Is this the case with the CIDs in your centre?

namoosh

No they were all on the same hours since they started, its a cut in their cid hours on the basis that the hours are no longer available, in their cid's it stated that the cid was subject to the hours being available.

rainbowtrout

namoosh wrote: »

No they were all on the same hours since they started, its a cut in their cid hours on the basis that the hours are no longer available, in their cid's it stated that the cid was subject to the hours being available.

Interesting. This is what I thought was always the main 'difference' between CID and Permanent. I'd just never heard of it happening in practice. I wonder if VECs that are awarding permanent contracts view CIDs in the same way, and therefore do not see them the same as permanent?

namoosh

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Interesting. This is what I thought was always the main 'difference' between CID and Permanent. I'd just never heard of it happening in practice. I wonder if VECs that are awarding permanent contracts view CIDs in the same way, and therefore do not see them the same as permanent?

I'd say so, in my view the VEC's see the "as long as hours are available" clause as a way of getting rid of staff when it suits them. It was all great when there was loads of funding available, its a different story now that things are tighter although permanent staff are usually senior staff who would typically be in the 50 - 60 age group and much more expensive to pay than the cid staff as they are at the max of the salary scale as opposed to the cid who is usually at the bottom. An early retirement scheme would make more sense than axing cid's.

cshorty

I have just received a CID and it states that conditions are the same as my fixed term contract, this was an 11 month contract and unpaid for the month of August (sign on the dole). With the CID are you entitled to be paid for the summer and move to a salary. I cannot find any information on the net regarding this.

I rang NERA and they stated that you can have a CID with conditions if the work is not there, i.e. school closed. TUI will not reply to any queries.

namoosh

cshorty wrote: »

I have just received a CID and it states that conditions are the same as my fixed term contract, this was an 11 month contract and unpaid for the month of August (sign on the dole). With the CID are you entitled to be paid for the summer and move to a salary. I cannot find any information on the net regarding this.

I rang NERA and they stated that you can have a CID with conditions if the work is not there, i.e. school closed. TUI will not reply to any queries.

I think what happens is they pay you the 11 month salary over 12 months. I'll check tomorrow and post if I find anything definite.