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Kilkenny Football - ??

eroo

As a Clareman, I have seen our footballers struggle and narrowly miss out in Div 4 over the last year. This year looks much the same.

However, struggle as our footballers may... the Kilkenny footballers have left me utterly speechless! No win in three years since they beat London(who have beaten them since). Recent results..

v Longford 4-24 to 0-5
v Leitrim 3-18 to 0-0
v Clare 5-17 to 1-1

Now I am in no way attempting to have a laugh at the teams expense or anything like that as they obviously have pride in the jersey to soldier on.. but the question has to be put out there. Should Kilkenny IC football team be disbanded? Or is there some way of getting them a win despite the lack of funding over hurling?

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peabutler

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair point but having a least a competitive football team wouldn't threaten their hurling. Football may not be popular in the county but surely its popular enough to at least give a good account of themselves at it.

I know it's hard to comprehend but it truly isn't. Kilkenny people really aren't bothered and even if the county board put more effort into it it wouldn't change a thing. The Hurling championship for the clubs is so competitve all year that you only get a chance to care about football if you lose a Quarter Final in September because from February it's 100% Hurling or risk relegation and injuries.

Gerard.C

peabutler wrote: »

I know it's hard to comprehend but it truly isn't. Kilkenny people really aren't bothered and even if the county board put more effort into it it wouldn't change a thing. The Hurling championship for the clubs is so competitve all year that you only get a chance to care about football if you lose a Quarter Final in September because from February it's 100% Hurling or risk relegation and injuries.

Just like Irish people really wernt bothered with cricket untill last year? Thats an unbelieveable attitude to have. KK people dont care that their footballers are a joke. I would.

Hammer Archer

Gerard.C wrote: »

Just like Irish people really wernt bothered with cricket untill last year? Thats an unbelieveable attitude to have. KK people dont care that their footballers are a joke. I would.

Do you think Cavan people care that their hurling team is a joke? What about Tyrone, Leitrim, Fermanagh? Do you care about Tipperary handballers? What about Tipperary rounders? Probably not even though these are also GAA games. Kilkenny people just are never (at least in my lifetime) going to be interested in playing football to a high standard. And I'm really baffled that there's a thread with over 200 posts complaining about it

Flukey

As we keep saying, this thread is not about those other counties. As we've also said, if you keep insisting on bringing other counties and Hurling into it, none of them get the kind of hammerings that Kilkenny do. We are not looking for Sam to join Liam in the streets of Kilkenny on a regular basis, just the simple ability to put up a decent performance. That would not take much so we are asking for very little. The good GAA people of Kilkenny that have contributed to the thread seem to take a defensive attitude to this request rather than even saying that they would like to see it too, whatever about its prospects of happening. We know Kilkenny GAA people are not short of pride, but it does seem to be surprising lacking in this regard. Even if you don't particularly care about football you would expect to have some level of pride to wish they would put up a reasonable performance. It's as if nobody wants their teams hammered, except Kilkenny. As I've said though, we know there is pride in Kilkenny so why is it so lacking, even if you have little interest? Isn't there even one Kilkenny person here who can stand up and say that they would like to see their footballers play better and would like something done to achieve that?

peabutler

Flukey wrote: »

As we keep saying, this thread is not about those other counties. As we've also said, if you keep insisting on bringing other counties and Hurling into it, none of them get the kind of hammerings that Kilkenny do. We are not looking for Sam to join Liam in the streets of Kilkenny on a regular basis, just the simple ability to put up a decent performance. That would not take much so we are asking for very little. The good GAA people of Kilkenny that have contributed to the thread seem to take a defensive attitude to this request rather than even saying that they would like to see it too, whatever about its prospects of happening. We know Kilkenny GAA people are not short of pride, but it does seem to be surprising lacking in this regard. Even if you don't particularly care about football you would expect to have some level of pride to wish they would put up a reasonable performance. It's as if nobody wants their teams hammered, except Kilkenny. As I've said though, we know there is pride in Kilkenny so why is it so lacking, even if you have little interest? Isn't there even one Kilkenny person here who can stand up and say that they would like to see their footballers play better and would like something done to achieve that?

But I wouldn't like to see better performances and more effort because I am completely indifferent to the sport.

As for Pride TBH wrongly or rightly we take pride that we have more All Ireland's in one sport than most teams have combined, Football in Kilkenny is a nuisance. It is that simple.

ShamoBuc

peabutler wrote: »

But I wouldn't like to see better performances and more effort because I am completely indifferent to the sport.

As for Pride TBH wrongly or rightly we take pride that we have more All Ireland's in one sport than most teams have combined, Football in Kilkenny is a nuisance. It is that simple.

I'm glad not everybody takes that narrowminded attitude in kk.

ShamoBuc

Well done to the Kilkenny footballers today!!!
They scored more goals than they conceeded - it's the little victories that keep ye going!
Onwards and upwards!!!

blackbelt

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Well done to the Kilkenny footballers today!!!
They scored more goals than they conceeded - it's the little victories that keep ye going!
Onwards and upwards!!!

Yes and they also managed to keep the defeat below 20 points which is an achievement for them.

Flukey

3 goals and a point. That is good. They were still comfortably beaten but it shows that there is potential there. All it needs is a bit of work and support. The players that lined out have some interest so even if the general Kilkenny public don't, maybe attention has to turn them. I am sure they would like to improve their performances. They would not be as indifferent to things as the Kilkenny people or their own county board are. So if others won't support them, maybe they have to lead the charge.

Hammer Archer

Flukey wrote: »

As we keep saying, this thread is not about those other counties. As we've also said, if you keep insisting on bringing other counties and Hurling into it, none of them get the kind of hammerings that Kilkenny do. We are not looking for Sam to join Liam in the streets of Kilkenny on a regular basis, just the simple ability to put up a decent performance. That would not take much so we are asking for very little. The good GAA people of Kilkenny that have contributed to the thread seem to take a defensive attitude to this request rather than even saying that they would like to see it too, whatever about its prospects of happening. We know Kilkenny GAA people are not short of pride, but it does seem to be surprising lacking in this regard. Even if you don't particularly care about football you would expect to have some level of pride to wish they would put up a reasonable performance. It's as if nobody wants their teams hammered, except Kilkenny. As I've said though, we know there is pride in Kilkenny so why is it so lacking, even if you have little interest? Isn't there even one Kilkenny person here who can stand up and say that they would like to see their footballers play better and would like something done to achieve that?

But that begs the question why are people so worked up about Kilkenny footballers when there are 10 times more hurling counties that put the same effort into hurling (Cavan wanted to disband their hurling team this year).
I really feel like I'm going around in circles. Cavan were beaten by 37 points this afternoon. Their total points difference is now -116 after 4 games so don't say that hurling teams aren't getting the same sort of hammerings. Also (as I've mentioned before) the teams in division 4 of the NHL of a far worse standard than those in division 4 in the NFL.

You say that this thread isn't about these other counties but my question is, if there is such anger at Kilkenny's efforts in football, where is the anger that so many more counties put in little effort into hurling? If someone could give me a satisfactory answer to that it'd be great.

[Deleted User]

What the hell is that man doing at a football game?

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/460333/

adrian522

Deleted User wrote: »

What the hell is that man doing at a football game?

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/460333/

maybe if he'd manage the footballers there might be an upturn in fortunes?

flahavaj

Hammer Archer wrote: »

But that begs the question why are people so worked up about Kilkenny footballers when there are 10 times more hurling counties that put the same effort into hurling (Cavan wanted to disband their hurling team this year).
I really feel like I'm going around in circles. Cavan were beaten by 37 points this afternoon. Their total points difference is now -116 after 4 games so don't say that hurling teams aren't getting the same sort of hammerings. Also (as I've mentioned before) the teams in division 4 of the NHL of a far worse standard than those in division 4 in the NFL.

You say that this thread isn't about these other counties but my question is, if there is such anger at Kilkenny's efforts in football, where is the anger that so many more counties put in little effort into hurling? If someone could give me a satisfactory answer to that it'd be great.

You could always start a thread about how poor Cavan hurler are and the generally poor standard of hurling in Div 4 if it concerns you that much? Why would we discuss them in a thread about football?

I love how people are using the fact that other counties have a poor attitude towards hurling as some kind of justification for Kilkenny's shameful attitude towards football. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn't make it in any less emberrassing or acceptable. This thread is about football in Kilkenny, attempting to muddy the water won't really change that fact.

You ask ehere is the anger towards Cavan, but this isn't a thread about Cavan so why would anyone get anygry about them in here? Makes no sense.

adrian522

flahavaj wrote: »

You could always start a thread about how poor Cavan hurler are and the generally poor standard of hurling in Div 4 if it concerns you that much? Why would we discuss them in a thread about football?

I love how people are using the fact that other counties have a poor attitude towards hurling as some kind of justification for Kilkenny's shameful attitude towards football. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn't make it in any less emberrassing or acceptable. This thread is about football in Kilkenny, attempting to muddy the water won't really change that fact.

You ask ehere is the anger towards Cavan, but this isn't a thread about Cavan so why would anyone get anygry about them in here? Makes no sense.

IMO these points about hurling being weak in these other counties is entirely relevant and is just as much an issue as the Kilkenny footballers. Perhaps more so as hurling is in a much worse state nationally than football.

It's not as pronounced as there are quite a few CB's that treat hurling in such a shabby manner.

I think we are just going to have to accept that Kilkenny footballers are just not capable of competing at national level until a lot more work is put in within the county. The weekly beatings don't do anyone any good.

The problem as I see it is that there doesn't seem to be any appetite to put in that work.

Hammer Archer

flahavaj wrote: »

You could always start a thread about how poor Cavan hurler are and the generally poor standard of hurling in Div 4 if it concerns you that much? Why would we discuss them in a thread about football?

I love how people are using the fact that other counties have a poor attitude towards hurling as some kind of justification for Kilkenny's shameful attitude towards football. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn't make it in any less emberrassing or acceptable. This thread is about football in Kilkenny, attempting to muddy the water won't really change that fact.

You ask ehere is the anger towards Cavan, but this isn't a thread about Cavan so why would anyone get anygry about them in here? Makes no sense.

Because I don't care, that's my entire point. I'm just wondering why there is such an irrational anger about one county's attitude to football and not about several other counties' attitude to hurling. If a county board doesn't want to promote a certain game as much as another, that's their periogative. Equally, if a public simply doesn't want to play football/hurling, that's also their choice.

ShamoBuc

Deleted User wrote: »

What the hell is that man doing at a football game?

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/460333/

lol But there's no interest in kk in football :rolleyes:

p.s. it's always nice to see the Kerry football manager as a spectator on All Ireland Football Final Day in Croker;)

eroo

adrian522 wrote: »

I think we are just going to have to accept that Kilkenny footballers are just not capable of competing at national level until a lot more work is put in within the county. The weekly beatings don't do anyone any good.

The problem as I see it is that there doesn't seem to be any appetite to put in that work.

This is the sort of replies that should be coming in, leave hurling out of it and start a thread for it.

flahavaj

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Because I don't care, that's my entire point. I'm just wondering why there is such an irrational anger about one county's attitude to football and not about several other counties' attitude to hurling. If a county board doesn't want to promote a certain game as much as another, that's their periogative. Equally, if a public simply doesn't want to play football/hurling, that's also their choice.

Stop going on about it then if you don't care, or worse still stop telling other people they should care.

[Deleted User]

flahavaj wrote: »

You could always start a thread about how poor Cavan hurler are and the generally poor standard of hurling in Div 4 if it concerns you that much? Why would we discuss them in a thread about football?

I love how people are using the fact that other counties have a poor attitude towards hurling as some kind of justification for Kilkenny's shameful attitude towards football. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn't make it in any less emberrassing or acceptable. This thread is about football in Kilkenny, attempting to muddy the water won't really change that fact.

You ask ehere is the anger towards Cavan, but this isn't a thread about Cavan so why would anyone get anygry about them in here? Makes no sense.

True. And on top of that Cavan were fairly competitive with the rest of div 4 last year. its just this year they are gone to the dogs in terms of div 4 hurling. they have hired outside help in the form of an offaly man to provide expertise and guidance for the future and say that more youngsters then ever are hurling up there. As a Cavan co board member said in one independent article they advertised in one article for lads to come up from the stronger counties to help them out and a lad from cork, kilkenny and offaly turned up. they asked the offaly man how good he was and he said he was OK but wouldn't be dislodging Johnny Dooley in offaly team in the future.at least they cast the net for the expertise. Monaghan had Joe Hayes as manager at one stage.
Kilkenny on the other hand have Mick Dempsey a former Laois county footballer as a hurling selector. ?????
Surely to god they could pick his brain on a few things?

Mullinahone have a hurling blitz here in Tipperary every year and only for the few teams who come down from the north it probably have taken wouldn't take off and i can tell you the passion these youngsters have for the game is fantastic. i wonder how many football tournaments KK clubs attend to try promote the game?

[Deleted User]

Another story i heard both from my ex who is an avid Kilkenny woman and my uncle lord have mercy on him who married and lived in callan, the county board would treat the hurlers to a 3-course slap up meal in langtons while the footballers would have to settle for tae and ham sandwiches in the next room. No joke!

EDIT: Cant believe i forgot probably the most absurd story of the whole lot but it was long time ago when i heard that one

Flukey

adrian522 wrote: »

IMO these points about hurling being weak in these other counties is entirely relevant and is just as much an issue as the Kilkenny footballers.

It is totally and absolutely irrelevant in a thread about "KILKENNY FOOTBALL". If we had a thread about Cavan Hurling, Kilkenny football would be totally irrelevant in that. What is happening in Japan at the moment is far worse than the state of Kilkenny Football, but no one has brought that up in this thread because this is not a thread about earthquakes and tsunamis. I think that it was a disgrace when they were talking about disbanding the Cavan Hurling team, but it is totally irrelevant in this thread, so I won't be mentioning it again in this thread. There are all sorts of things that I think are a disgrace, but this thread isn't about any of them. If someone wants to start a thread about Cavan Hurling or other poor Hurling teams then many of us here posting about Kilkenny Football, as that is what this thread is about in case you had not noticed, would certainly contribute to that. Now, where were we? Oh yeah, Kilkenny Football. I'll repeat that: Kilkenny Football. OK, now we all know what the thread is about, so... isn't it a disgrace that the county board in Kilkenny will not do their job of promoting Gaelic games as they are ignoring Gaelic Football?

Ken.

There should be a swap system, send a few hurlers that'll never get on the kilkenny hurling team to play for kerry and likewise there's a glut of class footballers in kerry that'll never get a look in there that could move to kilkenny. Thats just one example. It would improve football in kilkenny and improve hurling in "weaker counties".
I know it'll never happen but thats my 2cent worth.

Flukey

lucyfor09 wrote:

There should be a swap system, send a few hurlers that'll never get on the kilkenny hurling team to play for kerry and likewise there's a glut of class footballers in kerry that'll never get a look in there that could move to kilkenny. Thats just one example. It would improve football in kilkenny and improve hurling in "weaker counties".
I know it'll never happen but thats my 2cent worth.

I wouldn't swap players, as it is part of the beauty of the GAA that players predominantly play for their own counties. Some do change, but for the most part not. It wouldn't really be a particular county's team if there were too many players from other counties on it. The pride in county and jersey is important. So it is about helping the native players improve their own performances and that of their county. What they should do, and I've mentioned it earlier, is swap coaches. There is some sort of scheme like that, being promoted by the GAA. Kerry football coaches helping Kilkenny and Kilkenny Hurling coaches helping Kerry. That makes a lot more sense than swapping players.

Hammer Archer

flahavaj wrote: »

Stop going on about it then if you don't care, or worse still stop telling other people they should care.

Oh sweet jesus :rolleyes:
Kilkenny people don't care about football, stop telling them they should care.

[Deleted User]

Flukey wrote: »

I wouldn't swap players, as it is part of the beauty of the GAA that players predominantly play for their own counties. Some do change, but for the most part not. It wouldn't really be a particular county's team if there were too many players from other counties on it. The pride in county and jersey is important. So it is about helping the native players improve their own performances and that of their county. What they should do, and I've mentioned it earlier, is swap coaches. There is some sort of scheme like that, being promoted by the GAA. Kerry football coaches helping Kilkenny and Kilkenny Hurling coaches helping Kerry. That makes a lot more sense than swapping players.

they could easily do that twin training thing like in hurling too. For any young footballer to get advice of a Brian Dooher or Tomas o'Se or one of the Brogans would be some boost no matter what part of the world you are from. There was a thread some time ago about non nationals who participate in both games and surely if a polish man or an English man can adapt to the games having never had exposure to them then surely us Irish can also having had loads of exposure.

adrian522

Flukey wrote: »

It is totally and absolutely irrelevant in a thread about "KILKENNY FOOTBALL". If we had a thread about Cavan Hurling, Kilkenny football would be totally irrelevant in that. What is happening in Japan at the moment is far worse than the state of Kilkenny Football, but no one has brought that up in this thread because this is not a thread about earthquakes and tsunamis. I think that it was a disgrace when they were talking about disbanding the Cavan Hurling team, but it is totally irrelevant in this thread, so I won't be mentioning it again in this thread. There are all sorts of things that I think are a disgrace, but this thread isn't about any of them. If someone wants to start a thread about Cavan Hurling or other poor Hurling teams then many of us here posting about Kilkenny Football, as that is what this thread is about in case you had not noticed, would certainly contribute to that. Now, where were we? Oh yeah, Kilkenny Football. I'll repeat that: Kilkenny Football. OK, now we all know what the thread is about, so... isn't it a disgrace that the county board in Kilkenny will not do their job of promoting Gaelic games as they are ignoring Gaelic Football?

It is completely relevant when you are talking about a county board completely focusing on one sport to the determent of the other.

When you argue that the Kilkenny county board are a disgrace and an embarrassment I can agree but I don't accept that they are alone in this as has been suggested throughout this thread.

The treatment of hurling in these counties is just as shoddy in these counties is just as disgraceful and IMO much more important because hurling is in a much more precarious position than hurling. After all football thrives in most areas of the country. Just because it doesn't suit your argument doesn't mean it's not relevant.

By the way I think it is out of order and very sad that you feel a need to bring up the Japanese earthquakes into this discussion.

adrian522

Deleted User wrote: »

Another story i heard both from my ex who is an avid Kilkenny woman and my uncle lord have mercy on him who married and lived in callan, the county board would treat the hurlers to a 3-course slap up meal in langtons while the footballers would have to settle for tae and ham sandwiches in the next room. No joke!

EDIT: Cant believe i forgot probably the most absurd story of the whole lot but it was long time ago when i heard that one

This is incorrect, the food in langtons is free for the players not payed for by the board and the footballers get the same treatment,

The above may have been true in years gone by but not anymore.

Martin567

Flukey wrote: »

It is totally and absolutely irrelevant in a thread about "KILKENNY FOOTBALL". If we had a thread about Cavan Hurling, Kilkenny football would be totally irrelevant in that. What is happening in Japan at the moment is far worse than the state of Kilkenny Football, but no one has brought that up in this thread because this is not a thread about earthquakes and tsunamis. I think that it was a disgrace when they were talking about disbanding the Cavan Hurling team, but it is totally irrelevant in this thread, so I won't be mentioning it again in this thread. There are all sorts of things that I think are a disgrace, but this thread isn't about any of them. If someone wants to start a thread about Cavan Hurling or other poor Hurling teams then many of us here posting about Kilkenny Football, as that is what this thread is about in case you had not noticed, would certainly contribute to that. Now, where were we? Oh yeah, Kilkenny Football. I'll repeat that: Kilkenny Football. OK, now we all know what the thread is about, so... isn't it a disgrace that the county board in Kilkenny will not do their job of promoting Gaelic games as they are ignoring Gaelic Football?

I explained more than 10 times why the state of hurling around the country was relevant to this thread and you, among others, only confirmed this relevance with your incorrect comparisons between the lower levels of the NFL & NHL. I repeat, the state of hurling around the country is critical to any balanced discussion about the state of Kilkenny Football. Your post above is a particularly patronising attempt to evade that simple fact.

bruschi

can I ask those in this thread who are so adamant that there is interest in Kilkenny for football, do you actually know anyone in Kilkenny who thinks this way, or are you presuming that they should have an interest just because thats the way things should be? simple question.

having a casual interest in football, going to the AI final or watching it on tv, is not the same as training 3 times a week and lining out in one sided games. I personally know a lot of Kilkenny footballers. I know a lot of them are extremely good footballers. and I also know the majority of them have never lined out for the county side. some did at underage level. but most were also good hurlers and on the county side at underage level, and they view club championship hurling as more important than county football. I know of 2 lads this year who lined out for the county footballers in earlier rounds, as a means to get back training before the club hurling started back up.

I have already said it is sad that these footballers go to waste, but whilst there is development and funding for poorer hurling counties, the same facilities arent there for this side. because apparently football is an easier game to play and everyone should be able to be competetive. its not as easy as that. it needs to be brought on from a young age, and there are a good few young lads able to play. but their main interest is hurling, whether that be for county or club. there are a few dedicated lads on the senior side, but if anyone has the interest in doing so, vheck out the teams from this year, or last year, or even from the first round to the last, and see how many names are repeated. Players turn up for a while, and leave it. some players on the panel would barely make their poor club football side. but they get a chance at county level because other better players are just not interested in it.

blackbelt

Whatever it is,the Kilkenny footballers certainly won't become a powerhouse overnight but even in a less heavy defeat from yesterday,there are signs that the Kilkenny footballers can progress.Also,they did keep to within 7 points of Meath a few months ago in the O Byrne Cup Shield.

It will be many years before we see a semi competitive Kilkenny football team.Apparently they have put more emphasis into underage and youth structures but are these kids going to abandon football for love of the hurl?It can certainly happen with age and growing up watching Kilkenny hurlers winning Liam McCarthy's could throw them off football.Equally,if Kilkenny hurling was to go into a lull,more than likely we'll see improvements in football over an extended period but the whole issue of football contempt is holding them back in having two competitive teams in both codes.

I see where the Kilkenny fans are coming from in terms of arguments in relation to interest and the issue of weak hurling counties,that argument comes more from the idea of Kilkenny being victimised when a lot of counties have weak hurling teams but the issue is Kilkenny football and the contempt/weakness shown to it,especially at county board level.