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* Ag. Science *

Cove.Throne

Basically im thinking of picking up Ag.Science for the Leaving.Im in 5th year now.I heard there was a project you had to do just wondering would anyone know how to go about doing the project if you were not in a class?
Is Ag.Science a managable enough subject?I persume it would not be to intense to start it at this stage if you were willing to work?

Thanks.

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See very useful post by rainbow trout below

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thompson309

What is the average herd replacement rate? Is it different for dairy and beef herds?

I thought it was 20% on all farms but one of my friends who's doing ag also said that its 10%.

Thanks

rainbowtrout

thompson309 wrote: »

What is the average herd replacement rate? Is it different for dairy and beef herds?

I thought it was 20% on all farms but one of my friends who's doing ag also said that its 10%.

Thanks

10% is quite low. 20% is about normal. There was a question on the 2010 paper about it and 20% was accepted.

NotExactly

I'm abit confused as to how the marking scheme works.
It says 45 marks for investigation, so if I have one lab or field investigation from each of the categories written up I get 45 out of 45? or how does it work. Also for section one if I name five common plants and their family and three common food producing animals and 7 other animals related to Ag their bodily characteristics and their importance I get 20 out of 20? Also should I name extra plants and animals to ensure full marks? and how many experiments should I have written up? Thanks.

rainbowtrout

NotExactly wrote: »

I'm abit confused as to how the marking scheme works.
It says 45 marks for investigation, so if I have one lab or field investigation from each of the categories written up I get 45 out of 45? or how does it work. Also for section one if I name five common plants and their family and three common food producing animals and 7 other animals related to Ag their bodily characteristics and their importance I get 20 out of 20? Also should I name extra plants and animals to ensure full marks? and how many experiments should I have written up? Thanks.

First the plants and animal identification. Your teacher should probably test you here to see can you identify them or not. If you can identify the correct number as you said, you get the marks. If the examiner picks you on the day though they will have a lot more than 5 plants on display and realistically you should be able to name more than five. It's viewed very poorly if you can name the bare five as it's quite obvious that this is all you have learned, and rote learned at that.

The experiments. Again you only need one from each section to meet requirements, but you should know more and have done more. You cannot get full marks just by writing up 6 experiments. Any idiot can do that. You should be able to explain the experiment and understand it, again I would expect you to know more than the bare 6. You should be able to tell me why that experiment is relevant to agriculture.

Eg. You tell me that you did an experiment to show drainage in different soils. At the very least you should be able to explain how the experiment worked. You should be able to tell me the result (sandy is better than clay ) and I would probably ask you why this is important to agriculture. You should be able to tell me that drainage is needed for good crop growth etc. That's not exactly stretching yourself.

rainbowtrout

jimcorbet wrote: »

Hey ,
I was wondering if anyone can give me a list of all the crops we can pick from for the crop part of the project and which 2 are the easiest. Thanks!

You must do two of the three following crops

1. Grassland
2. Cereals
3. Potatoes or a root crop

If you choose cereals as one of your crops you could do barley, wheat, oats or maize for example.

Most people choose to do grassland and potatoes. Grassland because it fits in nicely with the livestock project and potatoes are easy to grow and get practical experience with.

rainbowtrout

norwegianwood wrote: »

For the experiment section I have the main 52 experiments on the course done, but I have them in a hardback copy, not as part of the project. Just want to clarify, is it ok to hand up the copy with my project? Beause I really dont want to write them all out again!

That's fine. Hand up the copy. That's what most students do.

rainbowtrout

screwed4the mocks wrote: »

was finishing off the plants component of my project went to get my plants and it turned out my dad has thrown them out, im stressing out big time because i have to get new ones, what plants would be acceptable that i could get now and how many do i need?

It doesn't matter once they are from five different plant families.

Eg. Some sort of grass - Leguminosae
Dock Leaf - Polygonaceae
Dandelions, daisies, thistles,ragwort - Compositae
Buttercup - Ranunculaceae

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2010/55/55_Guide_to_Identifying_Tillage_Weeds.pdf

It's not compulsory to have plants in your project. You only have to be able to identify them on the day.

rainbowtrout

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

I was told that on 2fm the other day there was an agricultural science teacher or something discussing how relevant the subject has become again apparently he produces a podcast of sorts?

I gave it a google, and a search on itunes but couldn't find anything. Does anybody know anything about such a podcast?

It's probably either Donal Power from the Institute of Education if you google him and ag science you'll get his tips for the programmes 2FM do each night of the Leaving Cert. The programme that's called 4-0-6 or 8-0-6 or whatever the date is this year.

Or possibly Humphrey Jones, frogblog.ie Don't know if he does podcasts but he blogs about ag science every now and again.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://blog.sccscience.com/2010/05/frogcast-3-preparing-for-leaving.html

This is one he did last year.

randylonghorn

Bubbleope wrote: »

Are there any other Ag Science books that would be helpful?

Apparently there's a brand new textbook for LC Ag Sci out in the last few weeks ... "Breaking Ground" by Cronin and Tiernan, published by Edco.

Might be worth a look.

rainbowtrout

Bubbleope wrote: »

I remember the question now.. or questions. :P
I was wondering if there are any good books/ revision books with all the experiments? My teacher has done none of the experiments with us yet.. and 5th year is almost over. All he has done is talked about them and drew diagrams on the board. I took down the diagrams and some notes.. but in fairness. . . I don't see how he expects us all to know them!? He has only done like 10. /: And none of the students in his class have them written up.. because well, we don't know what to write! O:
It's really frustrating, expecially because I want to get a good grade.
So would that Breen and Mullen book that has been mentioned earlier be of any use? I have the greyish one by Hermann thingy. It's good for some notes I think.. but the experiments in it.. really badly done in my opinion. S:
Would Rapid Revision have the 52 experiments in it? XD Ah, I'd love if it would!
Are there any other Ag Science books that would be helpful?

Oh! Also, Crops. . We only got grassland. xD So would I have to plant some potatoes out the back garden myself..? Would that be okay? I don't even know how to and when to plant potatoes.. O:

Sorry for all these questions!! I'm probably a pain in the ass.. sorry!
But thanks in advance. (:

by the way.. rainbowtrout, you should totally write a book on ag science! I WOULD SO BUY THAT! Probably the whole of the country doing Agricultural Science would buy that!

Hmmm... I might copy this post to randylonghorn, he usually mods this thread. Don't want to be banned for advertising etc

The Breen and Mullen books is the one most schools currently use, it's by Folens.
Ag Science by Hermann Geissel is the other one you are talking about. It's published by crsbooks.net. Sadly Hermann Geissel died 2 weeks ago, so i'm not sure how the publication of that is going to go as he self published.

Folens also have a Rapid Revision by Elaine Buckley Murphy. It has most of the experiments you need, but it doesn't have diagrams for them.

Edco released Breaking Ground only two weeks ago. It's a new Ag Science book and I am biased towards it because I'm one of the authors.

But to answer your question, we have done all the experiments out in it.

And your other question - planting potatoes is fine out your back garden, it's perfect to show you have experience of the crop. It's what I get my students to do.

rainbowtrout

randylonghorn wrote: »

Apparently there's a brand new textbook for LC Ag Sci out in the last few weeks ... "Breaking Ground" by Cronin and Tiernan, published by Edco.

Might be worth a look.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::D

randylonghorn

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Hmmm... I might copy this post to randylonghorn, he usually mods this thread.
...

Edco released Breaking Ground only two weeks ago. It's a new Ag Science book and I am biased towards it because I'm one of the authors.

Omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, that's me! :cool:

rainbowtrout

randylonghorn wrote: »

Omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, that's me! :cool:

Well only a person with those qualities should be allowed mod the Ag Science thread :pac:

rainbowtrout

lellskells wrote: »

Q for rainbowtrout...where can i get the stats of the number of students studying ag science in secondary school over a period of years if possible? thanks:)

Go into www.education.ie

On the right hand side of the homepage there is a menu and one of the links is Education Statistics Database. Click on that.

Now choose Second Level and Further Education from list

Choose last link on list 'Leaving Cert Programme Subject Provision..'

In the table provided choose 'Second level institutions funded by Dept of Ed' (first option), in second list choose 'Ag Science' in third list choose all years and in fourth list scroll down and choose 'All pupils taking subject' and click Get Data

rainbowtrout

doctorg wrote: »

Can I ask, how much is this new book? I might want to buy one also.
And how big is the book? ie. number of pages.

I think it's €36.95 and it's about 412 pages. There is a sample chapter on edcodigital.ie if you want to have a look.

Westsa

Sorry, re. above post, I should have said the new book Breaking Ground - thanks

Hey I'm feeling a little left out rainbow trout:D

Actually I think I need a quick lesson on how to post on boards. Maybe that should also be included in the book

rainbowtrout

Westsa wrote: »

Sorry, re. above post, I should have said the new book Breaking Ground - thanks

Hey I'm feeling a little left out rainbow trout:D

Actually I think I need a quick lesson on how to post on boards. Maybe that should also be included in the book

Everyone, welcome Westsa to the thread. Westsa is my partner in crime and all things agricultural - the other author of Breaking Ground!!

Here to help me answer everything about ag science!!! :pac:

lellskells

Westsa wrote: »

Ok i'm a novice at posting but I think I'll get the hang of it soon enough

Welcome westa! I am new to this ag science board but already I am hooked. I am a UCD Ag (and female LOL!!) from 1996 but plan to do to the hdip next year after 12 years in my current job, scientific publishing (could have proof read it for you:p)! I have always wanted to teach ag and I even to plan to snap up 'breaking ground', Anna Coffey in NUIG recommended it to me. Good luck with the book, I loved the sample on Ed co.
tks rainbowtrout, those stats were interesting today
ps thought you were male until today:eek:

Westsa

lellskells wrote: »

Welcome westa! I am new to this ag science board but already I am hooked. I am a UCD Ag (and female LOL!!) from 1996 but plan to do to the hdip next year after 12 years in my current job, scientific publishing (could have proof read it for you:p)! I have always wanted to teach ag and I even to plan to snap up 'breaking ground', Anna Coffey in NUIG recommended it to me. Good luck with the book, I loved the sample on Ed co.
tks rainbowtrout, those stats were interesting today
ps thought you were male until today:eek:

Funny that myself and rainbow trout got a bit of stick being female too!!! Best of luck with the agri science teaching plan. Personally I love teaching Agri Science, it's just so different to all the other Science subjects. Be warned that you might need to broaden you teaching scope as it helps to be able to teach Biology and Science or some other subject during these tough recessionary times. If you need any help give us a shout. Good to hear that other people are recommending the book. I could have done with your help, grammar and spelling not my strong point.

rainbowtrout

NotExactly wrote: »

Can anybody send me or does anybody no where I can get the exam papers for Ag that go back further than 1996. I have all the question 1's complete and want to do different ones.

Thanks!

There's a company in Tipperary who used to do a set of exam papers called Agricutural Science by Topic. The set I have I bought back in 2002 and they go back to 1988, however it's my only copy so it won't be going anywhere.

Rather than lay out the papers like a normal set they have them divided by topic so all the grassland together, all the genetics together etc.

I don't know if they still publish ag science papers but I have included the link with their contact number below so you could ring them and find out, or maybe they would have old stock and could send you a set of papers

EDIT: The link I had is no longer working and I've left my papers in school. Will put it up when I find it.

To be honest, you don't really need papers from pre-1995. Agriculture has changed even over the last 20 years and small changes in the exam paper reflect this. You are unlikely to see anything on your exam paper this year that hasn't been examined since before 1995

EDIT: The company are called EEC Publishing and are based in Toomevara, Tipperary. However every link I click on in Google is broken so I wonder if they are still in business. The links were working less than 2 months ago.

EDIT NUMBER 3!!: http://www.ppds.ie/pcsparchive/science/sciencesuppliers.pdf

They are the fourth one down on this list

agei

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ag Science by Hermann Geissel is the other one you are talking about. It's published by crsbooks.net. Sadly Hermann Geissel died 2 weeks ago, so i'm not sure how the publication of that is going to go as he self published.

Thank you for the mention of Leaving Certificate Agricultural Science by Hermann Geissel. CRS Publications (www.crsbooks.net; also www.agscience.ie) continues to trade, and I have taken over the business since Jan 2011.

At the risk of too much self-promotion, we're offering a 10% discount on copies purchased on the site before 1st May 2011 - perhaps as an appropriate second reference book?

We're also running a feedback survey at the moment, and welcome your input - visit www.agscience.ie. As a small reward, your response will be entered into a draw for a €25 iTunes voucher.

Many thanks for all your support, wishes and business over the past 30 years, and also over the past month since Hermann's death.

Adrian Geissel

agei

ERaftery wrote: »

Im new to this site so i don't know if im even doing this right, but anywho.. I'm in 5th year and a bit confused in terms of the formatting of the project. i'm trying to start it at the moment and really just don't know what headings to use, to use an index and am just lost in general!
It would be great if you could forward me on an example or maybe a link to what one should look like.
it would really help if i could see an example!!!
Thank you!!

Hi,

We have, with permission, published a student project on www.agscience.ie - hopefully that might help.

Adrian

rainbowtrout

I've been prompted to post here by a PM I got about the project.

I've been replying to queries about Ag Science on this thread for over two years. I don't mind doing it, I do it of my own free will and I do realise the problems and lack of information/ misinformation that exist within the subject - However:

I am getting an increasing number of PMs in the last while from people asking me what to put in their project, which essentially boil down to 'Please spoonfeed me my project'. All of the answers I have put up here, I've put up in my free time. They are detailed and cover every aspect of the project. I have no problem with PMs about the subject, but I will not entertain PMs about the project which are of the type:

What topics will I put in my project?
What photos will I take for my project?
Outline how I should do the crop project?
Give me a list of experiments that I should have in my project?

I have gone into great detail answering all of these queries and more in this thread and I'm not about to waste an hour of my time retyping answers to all of these questions and more for people who are simply too damn lazy to read the thread and get the answer themselves.

Also I will not entertain any requests seeking sample projects from me. That leads to plagiarism which a teacher I do not condone, nor would I want any of my current or former students worked copied.

I have no problem answering questions on thread or by PM, but please read the thread first to see if your question has already been answered because 99% of the time, it already has.

rainbowtrout

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Sorry if this has already been asked but i'm uncertain how to define cation exchange and cation exchange capacity. From reading through the textbook I couldn't really pick out a suitable definition and I didn't see it in the revision book, this has been asked in question 2 twice in the last five years and for some reason I couldn't download the marking schemes when i tried. Has anybody been given a definition of this from their teacher? Thanks.

Cation Exchange: The ability of soil particles (clay and humus) to attract, retain and release cations

Cation Exchange Capacity: The quantity of cations a soil adsorbs OR the capacity of a soil to exchange cations between the soil surface and soil solution

richieffff

Hello all, I am unable to identify a few of my plants and any help is welcome.

What I need is the Family and Plant name.
Thank you!

First Plant

Second Plant

Third Plant

Fourth Plant

Fifth Plant

Thanks again and are sticky-backs cleavers?

rainbowtrout

The first one looks like it might be Charlock (Brassica - Cruciferae) or mustard, would have to see it up close.
The second is creeping buttercup (Ranunculaceae)
The third looks like it's Ribwort Plantain (Narrow Leaf Plantain) - Plantaginaceae - it's not that clear as the photo shows the back of the leaves - if they are stripey they are plantain.
The fourth one looks like Lady's Smock(Cuckoo flower) - Brassica
The fifth is Wild Celery I'd say or maybe Hogweed, I'd have to see the whole plant

This is a great website for indentifying plants

http://www.irishwildflowers.ie/this-month/may.html

rainbowtrout

richieffff wrote: »

Thanks again and are sticky-backs cleavers?

Only just spotted this now, yes sticky backs are cleavers, they are also known as goose grass and robin-run-the-hedge

NotExactly

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Were you picked for interview? It might be useful to other posters here to share your experience if you were.

Yes I had it today. We had loads of pictures of plants,insects and animals laid out. She began with the identification. We could identify the ones we wanted and their family/characteristics. Then moved on to the experiments we had 6 set up one from each section (except a picture of a cross of incomplete dominance for genetics) she asked basic enough questions about the experiments e.g what percentage is the organic matter in soil,what bacteria is in the milk,what die did you use in the experiment to determine the bacterial quality of milk,how does osmosis work,give an example of how a farmer could use genetics on their farm etc.Then she went through the project stamping a page every now and again, asking me questions on the milking process and what type of farm it is etc. I was in there for around 25 minutes and it honestly felt like 5 minutes.I'm glad it went well:D

Do you think it's fair that some people get interviewed and others don't? Is it better to get picked for an interview if you can back up the information in your folder? & is it and advantage for a weak student who has a good folder to not get interviewed?

rainbowtrout

I don't think it would be possible to interview everyone that does Ag Science. There wouldn't be enough examiners in the country to do it.

Also your teacher has graded you already and the vast majority of teachers do a very good job. The external examiners really are only there to make sure that teachers are grading fairly.

It doesn't really matter if the student is very good or very weak going into the interview. If they have been graded fairly by their teacher they should achieve that standard. It's not a case that say a D standard student is suddenly going to give an A standard interview on the day. It doesn't usually happen.

Some students can feel that their grade is depending on the performance a class mate gives on the day and that might feel a little unfair. For the most part it's fair - if the teacher has graded fairly.

rainbowtrout

CTYIgirl wrote: »

Hi, I've read through the thread, but I was wondering a few things. Would you be able to pick up ag in 6th year and do decently in it? I do 8, but I'm dropping History and I need 560 points for my first choice course, with two pass subjects. My school offers it, and the teacher said he wouldn't have a problem with me joining, but I'm worried I wouldn't be able to do the course well enough?

OK. Well the hard part is over, you have access to a class and a teacher. You've read the thread so you know what is involved.

Next thing to do: Go to examinations.ie and have a look at some of the exam papers and get a feel for the subject. If you are doing Biology or Geography there will be some overlap.

After that if you decide to do the project let your school know you are changing over. Ask the ag science teacher what project work he has already assigned and get on top of it over the summer. Get a book. Ask him what sections of the course he has done and start doing some work on them so you are up to speed as much as possible when you come back in September.

A lot of people do ag science in one year. It's a favourite in grind schools (although I'm not a big fan of the grind school system). Even if you got the biology side of things out of the way and revised over the summer you would have a good bit done (plant physiology, animal physiology, genetics, microbiology, ecology, soil science).

If you are not from a farming background, sort out where you are going to go to get the experience and information needed for your practical project.

Buy a grow bag and some seed potatoes this week and plant them. Take photos and continue to do so over the summer.