Sharrow wrote: » I am not an atheist. I know I have a soul and some god of a collection desert tribes from half the world away does not have dibs on it. I still am awaiting for the Bible quotations to show where JVH or his son lays claim to all the people of all nations.
Sharrow wrote: » I'll dig one up for you. Not really playing a part? So then we don't have schools on church lands, with holy statues in the corridoors and cruifixes in classrooms and grace before and after lunch and the day started and ended with prayers? Or parish priests popping in to the classrooms on a whim, or cribs being made for art and crafts or hyms being taught as part of music in our primary schools. Never mind the lack of health based sex education due to the fact that if the church owns the land the school is on then cannon laws applies and pupils, staff and visitors are not allowed to teach anything which contradicts the churches stance on topics. You seems very out of touch with how things are in schools, more time is spent on religion in primary school then science or maths.
Seaneh wrote: » See, it's all well and good ranting and raving about Catholic control of schools and how it shouldn't be. And I agree, the there shouldn't be as many Catholic run schools. But who the feck else of providing an education system in this country? The government certainly hasn't for the last almost 100 years.
Seaneh wrote: » If the Catholic church stopped providing educational services tomorrow, this country would have no education system at all.
Seaneh wrote: » Same goes for hospitals.
Seaneh wrote: » If people (you) are really bothered, form a comitee and form an Educate Together organisation in your area, apply for funding and so long as you have the number and the right system, it will be granted. As it has all across the country. Or you could lobby for the government to open more VEC schools without Catholic influence, which has also been slightly more common in recent years.
Seaneh wrote: » The catholic church, funnily enough, encourage people to do these things, they don't want to be as involved as they are, but right now they have no choice, if they withdraw funding and services, the system collapses. So long as people and the government don't pull their fingers out and wipe their own arses, they are stuck doing it for them (you).
Seaneh wrote: » Matthew 28:19. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Happy?
Sharrow wrote: » And what of those who are not and do not wish to be baptised? Or do you agree with how that bit of scripture was used to justify the crusades?
Lux23 wrote: » No. I don't even believe thats its bread.
Seaneh wrote: » It's like fu*king Godwins law. There was NO biblical basis for the crusades, they had NOTHING to do with Christ's teachings and everything to do with greed and power. Men wanted more land, gold and money and used something as a pretext for acquiring those things, as has happened all across the the world since the dawn of time. You're really being silly now.
Sharrow wrote: » Money, greed and power you say, funny the Roman Catholic church here has been in education and health for those very reasons. What is wrong with expecting those who would follow Jesus to do as instructed in Mark 6:11 ?
karlog wrote: » Ask the people in atheism/agnosticism they'll be more than happy to provide you with a couple of 100 answers.
Seaneh wrote: » I think you are missing the point. That scripture is about Evangelism. It means if you go somewhere, and speak the gospel, and they reject it, then leave them be.
Seaneh wrote: » Patrick came to Ireland, spoke the Gospel and was welcomed,
Seaneh wrote: » since then the Church has been supported by many millions of people on this island. Why should they leave? Where are they staying against the will of the greater society?
Seaneh wrote: » In what area are the church opposed by the majority on the Island that they are still involved?
brianthelion wrote: » Father forgive them for they know not what they say No wonder the country is in the state its in
Sharrow wrote: » I have rejected it so why am I being told by you and at least one other christian here that as far as they are concerned I can not reject it? WTF Christianity here pre dates Patrick and he wasn't welcomed, he was hounded, in fact his chariot driver was killed as they thought it was him. Where you not taught about Saint Odran? I have no problem with the Roman Catholic church staying, there are many for whom it's spirituality works for them and it supplies strength, comfort and support. But it is not the only type of religion and spirituality in this country and needs to be not assumed as the default. Funny how much has not changed from the times of Wolf Tone. Let me see, well for the most part the first rebellion was in 1984 when the state broke away from the churches moral rulings on contraception and then we had divorce but we are not there yet, slowly but surely we are seeing a separation of church and state but it is painfully slow. The Roman Catholic church can tell it's adherents what to do or do not but they can no longer dictate to the state for all citizens as right from the founding of the state not everyone has been Roman Catholic.
If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Catholic bishops wash feet of abuse victims Monday, 21 February 2011 Victims of paedophile clerics made their presence felt yesterday at a forgiveness service in Dublin's Pro-Cathedral where two senior Catholic Church clergymen washed the feet of eight victims. Boston-based Cardinal Sean O'Malley and Archbishop Diarmuid Martin -- in "an act of humble service" -- washed the feet of "a representative group" of those affected by the sexual abuse of priests. The group included prominent victims Marie Collins and Christine Buckley. On behalf of the Pope who asked him to conduct an external probe into the scandal-ridden Archdiocese of Dublin, Cardinal O'Malley asked for forgiveness for the horrendous abuse cases catalogued in the Murphy Report, and for the systematic cover-up by church authorities. But the one hour-and-40-minute service was interrupted twice by two victims who walked on to the altar and spoke of their failure to receive justice. Both men were allowed to have their say by Archbishop Martin, and their contributions were applauded by the congregation. Robert Dempsey, who said he was speaking for all victims, spoke of how he was placed in a mental institution when he was only three, and later of how he was raped by a cleric in another institution when he was 15. Claiming that a court case that he had taken to obtain justice had been stalled for 10 years, Mr Dempsey handed Archbishop Martin a file of legal documents and urged him to use his influence with the judiciary to have his case heard and settled. The second intervention came from Christopher Heaphy, who spoke of receiving "the lash and the whip" when he was aged five as a resident of Greenmount, run by the Presentation Brothers in Co Cork. Speaking later, Mr Heaphy said that victims, many now elderly, still wanted justice and compensation, which he claimed had not been given by the hierarchy and religious orders. A third victim, Paddy Doyle, a disability activist, approached the precincts of the sanctuary, before directing his wheelchair out a side exit. Referring to the presence of two gardai, Mr Doyle said: "Cardinal O'Malley is the most protected man in the building." But Ms Collins said she was pleased to have taken part in the service as one of those who selected and contributed to the prayers. "It was a clear and definite expression of repentance by Archbishop Martin on behalf of the Dublin archdiocese," said Ms Collins. In his address, Archbishop Martin said that the service was only the first step toward healing, and warned against an attitude of "now we can get back to normal". "The archdiocese of Dublin will never be the same again," said Archbishop Martin. Unnoticed among the congregation was Cardinal Desmond Connell, the former Archbishop of Dublin, whose 16-year reign from 1988 to 2004 was "devastated" by the abuse scandals
Sharrow wrote: » Tbh all those who took part in the abuses and the cover ups and stood by silently when those were in the merciful care of the church and it's orders had best hope that they are being made humble and that Chronicles 7:14 applies. This should have been done 20 years ago, but it's a start.http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/catholic-bishops-wash-feet-of-abuse-victims-15091012.html The Roman Catholic Church needs to cleans it's own house, tend to it's flock and keep it's nose out of the running of the state and the private and legal affairs of those who are not Roman Catholics.
Brenireland wrote: » Yes,Every organisation/Society & Religion should be cleansed regularly to prevent wrong doing,However it seems the only Organisation/Society or religion which seems to get the bulk of the hatred or attention is that of the Catholic Church! Many Organisations/Societies and religion's have done wrong & indeed covered up,Lets not throw all the blame at the church,it seems to be the easy option for many.
Sharrow wrote: » Please point out to me the other religions/organisations/societies in this country who did wrong to so many for so long while being so hypercritical?
chillywilly wrote: » Jesus was an athiest. /legs it
Sharrow wrote: » Please point out to me the other religions/organisations/societies in this country who did wrong to so many for so long while being so hypercritical? Or even one where so many of those those who claim to be members of it do not know the central tenements or wilfully ignore them.
Sharrow wrote: » Want to try again?
Brenireland wrote: » Catholic Church has survived 2000 years,I don't believe Atheist Ireland or whoever or what ever mouther's are out their will damage the church in anyway.
Glad to say the Church And its people will always exist.
Yes I do pray for those who don't believe/question or Criticise Catholicism.
dilbert2 wrote: » We don't need Atheist Ireland to do any such thing, thankfully the Catholic Church has been shooting itself in the foot of late to warrant it's decline - even among former believers. Whatever you say Nostradamus. Yes, in a universe with potentially 200 billion galaxies, there is a mystic being living outside of it who can telepathically here beings communicating to him/ her on a small blue dot. That sounds plausible alright.
Brenireland wrote: » Sorry just noticed your post was edited! Yeah the IRA & a current member of SF are said to have murdered the Mother Of a young family during the troubles,along with many other who were killed and buried in bogs etc... They still to this day deny doing so!,Even after programmes such as "Voices From the graves",but yet they will be in the government buildings after the election. Many cover ups their.
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