johno2 wrote: » Yeah, about 4.5c of that is carbon tax. So it's roughly a 3% tax. I spend about €30 a week on fuel so it's gonna cost me an extra €1. I'd prefer to buy 5 plastic bags for that €1 and then just throw them in a river. Bloody ridiculous. I have to work for an extra 5 minutes every week to offset some of the damage I do to the environment. I blame God for putting us in such an unfair universe. If this carries on I might have to car pool on long journeys. How crazy is that! johno
vaalea wrote: » I don't know why exactly the greens let the govt hang in there, diplomacy? but voters seemed unconcerned by the fact that their vote put the Fianna Fáil into govt in the first place.
Liam Byrne wrote: » Do you seriously believe the bit in bold? Because even if The Greens hadn't sold us out re NAMA & Anglo I would exclude them from my ballot paper based on the above alone.
johno2 wrote: » I believe he was referring to the voters own vote at the polls last time around, not the vote of the GP TDs. johno
Liam Byrne wrote: » I know what he was referring to. What is your point?
johno2 wrote: » Fair enough, I thought you had misunderstood the ownership of some pronouns in his post. It seems I had misunderstood your post instead. johno
vaalea wrote: » a vote for green IS a vote for... Why do so many people overlook the greens?
johno2 wrote: » The only thing I can think of that qualifies for that statement is rolling out your own attic insulation. If it's cheaper to do it yourself nobody wants to stop you. Do it yourself. I don't fancy having unqualified cowboys drilling holes in my walls or replacing my boiler though, so I have no problem with having a requirement for training/certification/insurance attached to that. It would be a complete joke if everyone could issue their own BER certs for their own houses.
Ghost Estate wrote: » Solar panels too I believe. The list is short because they give so little back in return for all their taxes. The DIY route should be encouraged, anything where subsidies are given are tied up in a bureaucratic web of mandatory professional installation, certification, insurance and training.
johno2 wrote: » I'll let vaalea get back to this and clarify what he meant by "their". There is a couple of different ways to parse that sentence. I honestly think you have it the wrong way around and you're arguing with an idea you constructed yourself. johno
cnocbui wrote: » Is a vote for stupid and thoughtless policies derived from misguided mystic/pseudo scientific beliefs that resemble religious doctrines. A vote for the Greens is a vote for pain with no gain. I don't overlook them, I just make sure they are the last ones I number on my ballot paper.
Liam Byrne wrote: » OK - I can see your point now - I'd have taken "their" as being The Greens, since that's what the paragraph started with.
flutered wrote: » the stag hunting fiasco cost jobs also income + tourists = more money in our broke economy,
vaalea wrote: » ... but the sentance with "their" started with voters johno2 put it nicely..
johno2 wrote: » Can take it you agree with me about pumped cavity insulation and boilers then? There's 2 types of solar panels, thermal and PV. The thermal ones require heavy modification of a central heating system and safety equipment for climbing around on roofs. The PV panels could possibly be fitted by an untrained person, but at some stage you're going to have to wire them into your mains electricity and replace your ESB meter. I'm quite handy when it comes to DIY stuff and I've spent part of my career installing antennas on chimneys and I'm not sure I'd tackle either of those jobs single handed. johno EDIT: And btw, the GP made the legislation that allows smart metering happen. Individuals had been lobbying for it for 10 years but the ESB didn't want the hassle of making it happen. So pre-2007 solar panels meant banks of car batteries and a separate 12V circuit in the house.
Ghost Estate wrote: » No. When we got central heating the only thing we had done by an outsider was installing the boiler (had to be done by a registered plumber to get the warranty), and my god did he make a balls of it. He didn't even grasp the concept of water pressure increasing in a closed system when it heats up. A monkey would have done a better job.
Ghost Estate wrote: » Cavity insulation is a bit tricky but if you have all the stuff I don't see why someone couldnt do it themselves.
Ghost Estate wrote: » Don't even mention grid-tied photovoltaics; another 'jobs for the boys' scheme, realistically you'll still end up using car batteries unless you want to make a white elephant out of the project and put down several thousand for a 'specially for Ireland' grid tie inverter that conforms to a special standard that the ESB themselves can't stick to.
Ghost Estate wrote: » So your inverter sits there refusing to pump out any power to the grid because the quality of the power coming in is too bad. Even G/83 inverters are costly enough to extend your break even point so far into the future that you'd be thinking twice about ever going near the stuff.
johno2 wrote: » All your other points have been argued in many forums before so I won't go into them again. This is a new one for me though. I've never been to a stag hunt. Would you be able to put some kind of realistic monetary value or number of jobs based on this tourism? thanks, johno
Liam Byrne wrote: » Voters is then too broad a term because those of us who didn't vote FF. I mean how am I to blame that FF got in? And I'm not scapegoating anyone; I'll judge The Green decisions and I'll similarly judge FF decisions.
vaalea wrote: » the greens certainly are not to blame for FF votes... that's all I'm saying.. there is plenty of blame to go around.. just take a step back and look at the bigger picture and history rather than say the greens let everyone down blah blah
johno2 wrote: » You're right about that, so obviously you have a good grasp of numbers. Why don't you do the math on taking the carbon tax applied to heating oil or gas (~4%) which gets allocated into grants for more efficient boilers. Upgrading a 10 year old boiler (65% efficient at best) and see how long it takes to amortise that against the grants they provided for new boilers (>90% efficient). I've already done it, and it varies slightly depending on usage and insulation levels, but for most houses it's somewhere in the ballpark of 4-5 years. in the present financial climate how many of us can afford this, only the top elcons, all of the lower forms in the food chain can barley manage never mind a new car a new boiler or insulation, i have often wondered what form of relaxation technique do they use. i am in recipt of 193 euro per week pension, please explain how i can manage any of the above, if i could i should be the next minister for finance regardless of who is in power
johno2 wrote: » So you expect me to believe that anyone in the country could install a boiler better than the guy you got. Come on seriously? It's strikes me as odd that if you know so much about boilers you still managed to hire a muppet that made a balls of your installation.
And that will save you money right? A core drill bit for drilling the holes will set you back about 60-90 euros. Thats before you rent a sds-max drill for the day at another 20 euro. Of course if you have your own truck full of polystyrene beads lying around that won't cost you anything. To be honest with you I've looked into the possibility of going into that business myself and the competition is so fierce and the prices are so low that I'd never make a profit on it. You said something earlier about lads rounding up to the nearest thousand. If that's you're experience you couldn't have shopped around at all.
You brought up the solar panels first, I just replied to you. The grid tie inverter are a requirement because the Eiregrid has to shut down parts of the grid from time to time. They can't do that if people are pumping electricity into it from random houses all over the place. The grid tie inverter detects if the mains is gone dead and it stops feeding power into it. This is so the lads climbing the pylons don't get killed. You seem to have some experience with this stuff, and it all seems to have gone wrong for you. I've heard similar stories from other people. Those inverters have potentiometers on them that can be adjusted to allow some variation in the incoming voltage and frequency. Adjusting them helps to fix the problem. BTW I know the break-even point on PV is very bad in this country. I advise people on what to buy and I've never advised anyone to get PV. If you sunk a load of money into a PV system you should have got some advice or done some spreadsheets first. Sorry about that, genuinely. johno
flutered wrote: » johno2 wrote: » Upgrading a 10 year old boiler (65% efficient at best) and see how long it takes to amortise that against the grants they provided for new boilers (>90% efficient). I've already done it, and it varies slightly depending on usage and insulation levels, but for most houses it's somewhere in the ballpark of 4-5 years. boilers 10 years ago aren't as bad as they'd like to let on. there have been improvements in the efficiency of a lot of things but more often than not you're better off running an old boiler or fridge (if the gasket seals good!) or anything into the ground before you invest in something new. another 'green' scam to make you part with your money rather than save it. 20 and 30 year old goods and stuff that hasn't been serviced will be less efficient but most likely still not inefficient enough to throw out one that's still working
johno2 wrote: » Upgrading a 10 year old boiler (65% efficient at best) and see how long it takes to amortise that against the grants they provided for new boilers (>90% efficient). I've already done it, and it varies slightly depending on usage and insulation levels, but for most houses it's somewhere in the ballpark of 4-5 years.
newtadis wrote: » il vote for the greens if they legalize green
Liam Byrne wrote: » Why don't you just leave them blank? Why give them any number?
vaalea wrote: » vote green. people love to vote for the same old parties thinking they are going to get a CHANGE?! A real message to politicians is kicking old parties to the curb and seeing if a different party can breathe some fresh air into politics. a vote for green IS a vote for the economy if any of you have been reading up on the economics of climate change and green collar jobs. Green Party is not just about environment, it is about sustainability in all areas, and that means long term employment prospects, not short sighted quick fixes.. and it means working for priceless equality and quality of life rather than quick big $$. Why do so many people overlook the greens?
