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Are Travellers a Separate Ethnic Group?

Rawhead

What do you think? The UN seems to think they are a separate and distinct ethnic group.

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storm2811

MagicMarker wrote: »

You haven't, you're just saying they're an ethic group because of their beliefs, traditions and culture. But I don't see any difference between their beliefs, traditions and culture other than the fact they live in caravans.

It would be great if you could specify exactly what makes them an ethnic group?

You seriously don't see any difference?
Women aren't allowed to go anywhere by themselves untill they're married, they burn down a persons caravan after they die, a lot of them leave school at 16, a lot of them don't work for any businesses apart from their own, they can't marry anyone who isn't a traveller, massive family pride, complete different views to ours, how are they not different?
Have you ever hung out with or properly talked to a traveller?

Killer Pigeon

"It's not English. It's not Irish. It's just ... well ... just Pikey."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfNb9Qrbfz4

bonzos

Mr. Collins wants travellers to be reconsigned as an ethnic group???From what I see in my local area they seem to have no regard for the law and vast amounts of money despite most of the group never working!! They are involved everything from violent crime,theft,shop lifting,dangerous driving,welfare fraud,wrecking public houses on a regular basis right down to the more "minor" crimes of fly tipping and treating every disabled parking space as their own.If they want to educate their kids..send them to school like everyone else.If they want respect they need to start to show some. It's time we cut through all this PC bull and start stating the bloody obvious!!

deise go deo

Ghandee wrote: »

Tenner says this thread either ends badly, or gets locked, or both.

Like travellers come to think of it.

I know its wrong, but i laughed anyway.

liquoriceall

I am from a town with a very large traveller population there was the most hilarious court case around 5- 6 years ago
A local 'traveller' took a case against the council for not providing him with accomadation appropriate to his culture, he wanted a caravan with space for his horses
He won
Now the house given to him was on the same corner that he grew up on just across the road so how can it not have been suitable for his needs when this is exactly where he grew up??
See one rule for them one for you and me

MagicMarker

storm2811 wrote: »

You seriously don't see any difference?
Women aren't allowed to go anywhere by themselves untill they're married, they burn down a persons caravan after they die, a lot of them leave school at 16, a lot of them don't work for any businesses apart from their own, they can't marry anyone who isn't a traveller, massive family pride, complete different views to ours, how are they not different?
Have you ever hung out with or properly talked to a traveller?

I've seen plenty of traveller women on their own.

Lots of people leave school at 16.

Of course they don't work for any business but their own! That would mean paying taxes.

Family pride.... seriously?

Burning caravans, big whoop.

Can't marry non travelers? I doubt they have much choice in the matter.

Sorry, I'm not convinced.

storm2811

MagicMarker wrote: »

I've seen plenty of traveller women on their own.

Lots of people leave school at 16.

Of course they don't work for any business but their own! That would mean paying taxes.

Family pride.... seriously?

Burning caravans, big whoop.

Can't marry non travelers? I doubt they have much choice in the matter.

Sorry, I'm not convinced.

They're probably married.

Yes but nearly all of them do.

Very nice and open minded of you!

Yes, very much so.

Maybe not but it's part of their culture.

Nope, again part of their culture, I thought that's what we were talking about?

You never answered my question, doesn't seem like you have anyway, you should, open your mind, it'll change your opinion.

flas

storm2811 wrote: »

You seriously don't see any difference?
Women aren't allowed to go anywhere by themselves untill they're married, they burn down a persons caravan after they die, a lot of them leave school at 16, a lot of them don't work for any businesses apart from their own, they can't marry anyone who isn't a traveller, massive family pride, complete different views to ours, how are they not different?
Have you ever hung out with or properly talked to a traveller?

first underlined bit is not true, not in the slightest bit true actually.

most of them leave school before 16, in fact of the 12 who were in my 6th class not one of them went to secondary school.

the massive family pride thing is not exactly a completely different view to everyone else is it?

the bit about them working for any business apart from their own, my own personal experience with them, and this is from knowing a good amount of them personally, is that their only business was either selling drugs or selling robbed bikes/power tools at markets. ( which as a matter of fact ties in with the point about school, any day a market was on the few who worked the markets were taken out of school to go sell said stolen items).

the rest of them who were in school with me have never worked a day in their lives!

im not attacking travellers with my post, just saying some home truths from personl experience that i dont think would be too different from other places around the country.

HavingCrack

They're not a separate ethnic group under the criteria people are using. They share a common ancestry with settled Irish people and something like 50% of them are descended from people who only started travelling post Famine when they lost their homes. Their genes are exactly the same as everyoen else.They share the same religion as the majority of Irish nationals, speak the same language with the exception of a few older travellers etc.

Why aren't Cork people an ethnic group if this is the case?

Anyway, its bull**** they're Irish people who just happen to enjoy travelling around in caravans. Are Irish people who enjoy sailing and speaking in ridiculously posh accents going to be an ethnic group too if this is the case?

maiden

Plenty of kids leave school at 16, very true!

Traveller girls cant go anywhere alone, absolute bull! I know travellers girls who have kids and they're not married. So all this no sex before marriage is bull too.

Its all for the cameras!

Big Nasty

bonzos wrote: »

fly tipping

Fly Tipping?

Is that like Cow Tipping only with flies?

storm2811

flas wrote: »

first underlined bit is not true, not in the slightest bit true actually.

most of them leave school before 16, in fact of the 12 who were in my 6th class not one of them went to secondary school.

the massive family pride thing is not exactly a completely different view to everyone else is it?

the bit about them working for any business apart from their own, my own personal experience with them, and this is from knowing a good amount of them personally, is that their only business was either selling drugs or selling robbed bikes/power tools at markets. ( which as a matter of fact ties in with the point about school, any day a market was on the few who worked the markets were taken out of school to go sell said stolen items).

the rest of them who were in school with me have never worked a day in their lives!

im not attacking travellers with my post, just saying some home truths from personl experience that i dont think would be too different from other places around the country.

That's just what I know from the travellers I knew, different in other parts of the country I suppose.

MagicMarker

storm2811 wrote: »

They're probably married.

Yes but nearly all of them do.

Very nice and open minded of you!

Yes, very much so.

Maybe not but it's part of their culture.

Nope, again part of their culture, I thought that's what we were talking about?

You never answered my question, doesn't seem like you have anyway, you should, open your mind, it'll change your opinion.

Just because I don't believe as you do doesn't mean I don't have an open mind.

You tried to highlight the reasons why travelers are a separate ethnic group, all you did was highlight their oppression of women and children. I think my opinions on travelers are just fine as they are, thanks all the same.

Tibulus

Travellers are a group of people brought together by their desire to contribute absolutely nothing to society.

How could they be considered to be a separate ethnic group??

storm2811

MagicMarker wrote: »

Just because I don't believe as you do doesn't mean I don't have an open mind.

You tried to highlight the reasons why travelers are a separate ethnic group, all you did was highlight their oppression of women and children. I think my opinions on travelers are just fine as they are, thanks all the same.

But you've never spoken to one about this stuff, both sides of the story and all that.

Metallitroll

i just wish they were seperate ousted individuals where they're alright, cos they're a fookin nightmare in packs. clans, whatever.. gangs? families.

maiden

A traveller friend of mine told me recently that most of their income now comes from claims, and when i asked about using banks etc he told me that every traveller family has a safe in their home, thats where all the cash is.

Now my opinion is, why aren't travellers investigated by CAB etc, why isnt their money declared and why on earth do they get free legal aid when they arrive to court in the latest range rovers. Why should they have a free reign?

krudler

Well if declaring yourself a seperate ethnic group gets you tax free status, a new van every year even though you're on the dole and free housing, where do i declare my newly found ethnic status?

The "woe is us, we deserve things for free cos we're different" doesnt wash anymore, once they start paying taxes and living within societys laws then they have a say in things. Theres a halting site not far from where I live, its littered with burnt out cars, emaciated animals and children running around whats basically a dump/scrapyard. If a non traveller lived in those conditions they'd be prosectured for child abuse.

I must start selling carpets, given the 2011 Merc I saw one get out of the other night there must be a roaring trade in it.

krudler

maiden wrote: »

A traveller friend of mine told me recently that most of their income now comes from claims, and when i asked about using banks etc he told me that every traveller family has a safe in their home, thats where all the cash is.

Now my opinion is, why aren't travellers investigated by CAB etc, why isnt their money declared and why on earth do they get free legal aid when they arrive to court in the latest range rovers. Why should they have a free reign?

Agree, if any of us were on welfare and were driving around in a brand new range rover we'd have the revenue on us like flies on sh1te, but travellers seem to be a law unto themselves.

MagicMarker

storm2811 wrote: »

But you've never spoken to one about this stuff, both sides of the story and all that.

I don't need to speak to a traveler to understand that they are not an ethnic group, what you've said about travelers doesn't qualify them as an ethnic group, especially seeing as what your experiences are seem to differ from everyone else's experiences!

Anytime I've come into contact with travelers has usual involved a threat of violence at some stage, and not by me! So I really have no desire to extend a hand of friendship.

Kasabian

This thread needs a travellers view. Now where would I find one of them.

Dad

What?

Are we a different ethnic group?

Yes to the Chinese

No. here in Ireland

No we're Irish. Jesus what are you talking about.

Dad when you were young did ye burn caravans after someone had died?

Your Grandfather said some families did but this faded out as they got more expensive.

Dad. Did you finish school

Yes.

Was Mum allowed go places on her own?

LOL .You have met her, try stopping her, haha.

Dad, why did grandad decide to settle?

His health was bad and the lifestyle would have killed him.

Are we still travellers?

I guess we still have roots in our culture but you never had the traveller lifestyle.

Do we have our own langauge?

I wouldn't say it is a langauge but there are some strong versions of dialect that have code in it, the history is that it was used to stop the Peelers understanding what was been said. I still understand bits of it but it has changed down through the years.

Dad can travellers only marry other travellers?

Weren't you at John's wedding, his wife is French.

How did Grandad make his money?

Did he pay tax.?

Selling the sh1te people didn't want and horse dealing, when he settled he sold cars. I have no idea on the tax but he was never in trouble with the revenue so I assume so.

Dad are there bad travellers?

Yes plenty but there are plenty of bad " settled" people just think about that shower of cnuts down the road, the ******* family. ( name withheld )

Dad is family important to travellers?

Isn't it to everyone? Now fcuk off I'm watching the match,. There's a touch of traveller in that Rooney fella.

Thanks Dad.

yizorselves

Cant even knacker bash anymore? Pathetic

Kasabian

yizorselves wrote: »

Cant even knacker bash anymore? Pathetic

There's all kinds on the internet including ignorant twats.

evil_seed

Travellers is people too

Eric Cartman

evil_seed wrote: »

Travellers is people too

proof ?

haydar

a lot of people here sound like germans pre WWII

1qTour

If they are, what is the outcome of it? Do different ethnicities in Ireland Ireland get something the regular Irish don't?

All I know is that I don't trust them, just from experience. It seems to me that the many spoiled it for the few when it comes to the travelling "community".

Aidric

MagicMarker wrote: »

big whoop.

earrings?

Rawhead

Kasabian wrote: »

There's all kinds on the internet including ignorant twats.

See the beauty of a free society is that when you abide by your part of the social contract that exists between citizen and state ie., pay taxes and don't commit crime then you are allowed to think how you like. Thinking in a certain way doesn't impede on anyone else no matter what the sociology professors in trinity and Ivana Bacik say.

Therefore I don't like the following,

blacks, jews, prods, travellers, muslims, dubs, rossies, poles, dubs, brits, gingers, chinese, gays, dubs, russians, slavs, liberals, mexicans, dubs and goldfish.

Kasabian

Rawhead wrote: »

See the beauty of a free society is that when you abide by your part of the social contract that exists between citizen and state ie., pay taxes and don't commit crime then you are allowed to think how you like. Thinking in a certain way doesn't impede on anyone else no matter what the sociology professors in trinity and Ivana Bacik say.

Therefore I don't like the following,

blacks, jews, prods, travellers, muslims, dubs, rossies, poles, dubs, brits, gingers, chinese, gays, dubs, russians, slavs, liberals, mexicans, dubs and goldfish.

Dubs I agree with but why Goldfish?