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Are Travellers a Separate Ethnic Group?

Rawhead

What do you think? The UN seems to think they are a separate and distinct ethnic group.

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Ghost Estate

If going around the place stealing and littering and just generally making a nuisance of yourself is enough to put you in a distinct ethnic group, then yes.

PogMoThoin

Let them pay tax and conform to the laws of our society and they can be in our ethnic group, until then they're just knackers

MagicMarker

Of course not.

francis1978

just heard that guy on the last word, to mu mind they are not because as mr collins said he's an irish traveller, surely an ethnic minority in this country would not use the word irish to describe themselves ? i have my own personal view based upon my experiences of dealing with them both professionally and privately but this is probably not an appropriate forum to reveal them.

the groutch

yes, I don't want to be in anyway associated with them, they're a seperate class of sub-human

whydoibother?

Do you think they want to be the same ethnic group as the majority of Irish people? I was under the impression that they campaigned long and hard to get recognised as separate. I also know that on numerous forms where I've been asked to state my ethnicity there have been at least two Irish options including: (a) Irish and (b) Irish traveller.

Rawhead

francis1978 wrote: »

just heard that guy on the last word, to mu mind they are not because as mr collins said he's an irish traveller, surely an ethnic minority in this country would not use the word irish to describe themselves ? i have my own personal view based upon my experiences of dealing with them both professionally and privately but this is probably not an appropriate forum to reveal them.

But did you not hear Mr Collins say how proud he was of his "travellerness". It's hard to doubt a man's sincerity when he makes up words, just look at Donald Rumsfeld.

SEPT 23 1989

What to they contribute to Irish society? would be a better question

Ricardo G

Of course they have their own ethnic group, they would'nt be called travellers otherwise !! What pizz's me off more than anything though is the fact that they are'nt told to go out and look for work like everyone else given that most are settled now. Why are'nt CAB out asking where these people are getting there new cars/vans/jeeps???? yet the average joe soap is being chased by the revenue for every last hard earned cent. I don't dislike travellers and have no prejudice against them but its one rule for them and settled community pay the price

Buceph

Ricardo G wrote: »

Of course they have their own ethnic group, they would'nt be called travellers otherwise !!

Aye. There's three traditional ethnicities in Ireland, Travellers, Culchies and West Brits.

whydoibother?

The fact that they describe themselves as Irish does not mean in itself that they cannot be a separate ethnic group. Nationality and ethnicity are two separate things.

storm2811

Yup.

An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy.[1][2] [3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group

Ghandee

Tenner says this thread either comes to a messy end, or gets locked, or both.

A bit like travellers usually do come to think of it.

RGDATA!

whydoibother? wrote: »

The fact that they describe themselves as Irish does not mean in itself that they cannot be a separate ethnic group. Nationality and ethnicity are two separate things.

woah, that'll be a little too difficult to grasp for some of those who have posted already.

Micky Dolenz

Any and all traveller bashing will result in Infractions and bans.

Ghost Estate

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Any and all traveller bashing will result in Infractions and bans.

Travellers are brilliant!

Merch

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Any and all traveller bashing will result in Infractions and bans.

AH?

RGDATA!

As far as I understand the definition of an ethnic group I can't see any reason why they wouldn't qualify as one. 24 'no' votes, but nobody has explained why yet. The question wasn't whether you like travellers or not.

Babyblessed

Buceph wrote: »

Aye. There's three traditional ethnicities in Ireland, Travellers, Culchies and West Brits.

But not separate.... I mean you could be a west brit culchie???

Pauleta

Being a traveller is a lifestyle choice not an ethnicity.

baldbear

I remember this topic was covered on The Frontline and some traveller girl was claiming they had different DNA.....

If travellers are classified as a ethnic group then they well be entitled to special rights, more funding more halting sites etc. They are trying to milk the system more.

Rawhead

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Any and all traveller bashing will result in Infractions and bans.

Is it bashing if the following is pointed out.
1. Disproportionately high amount of travellers in prison.
2. Disproportionately high amount of spousal assault/abuse.
3. Disproportionately low tax compliance.

The generally agreed social contract that I, you and most people have with the state is that we (citizens) comply with the laws and rules of the state, and the state in return provides us with security, protection and health services etc.

So I couldn't care less if you are a traveller, a scum bag from Finglas or a ****e bag from Sligo, if you refuse to live within the norms of society then you don't deserve the perks of citizenship.

Beaucoupfish

There's some right horrible ***** on this forum. How about some solutions rather shouting 'sub-human scum'.
I think treating them as a separate ethnic group is a start in trying to overcome the problems that exist.
And these problems need to be addressed from both sides.

[Deleted User]

I dont really see how they are

Eric Cartman

woops just saw the mod post above

I have never had a positive experience with the travellers , much like dogs Im sure they can be trained to behave in our society, im not looking for them to go out in suits and get jobs but perhaps just a bit of respect for peoples property and a lot less stealing would be nice, until then ill just leave them as wild animals

storm2811

bluewolf wrote: »

I dont really see how they are

They have their own culture, way of life, traditions and language.

Ricardo G

Rawhead wrote: »

Is it bashing if the following is pointed out.
1. Disproportionately high amount of travellers in prison.
2. Disproportionately high amount of spousal assault/abuse.
3. Disproportionately low tax compliance.

The generally agreed social contract that I, you and most people have with the state is that we (citizens) comply with the laws and rules of the state, and the state in return provides us with security, protection and health services etc.

Do you have proof of this ??

Beaucoupfish

So I couldn't care less if you are a traveller, a scum bag from Finglas or a ****e bag from Sligo, if you refuse to live within the norms of society then you don't deserve the perks of citizenship.[/QUOTE]

If you were called a scumbag would you want to live within the norms of this society. The society you champion creates these 'scumbags'. If you have no hope of getting employment, access to 3rd level education, poor health, oppressed women and a mortality rate akin to the 1940's would you not react against regular society.

Think of solutions. Here we have definitive minority culture that exists in Ireland. How can we allow them to integrate or live in harmony without upsetting the 'settled' community.

Think! rather than shouting scum.

Give us some ideas.

[Deleted User]

storm2811 wrote: »

They have their own culture, way of life, traditions and language.

Being catholic and dressing funny?

Do they really have an actual full on language or just slang

Stinicker

Considering that incest is so prevalent within Traveller society they have devolved into a sub-group of the Irish racial stock.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/ny_local/2002/09/24/2002-09-24_monster_mom_is_product_of_a_.html

Outside of fashion, clothes and dress sense their is clear characteristics that sets travellers apart from the rest of society, even if a traveller child was to be adopted and brought up in settled society you could still spot the racial differences most of which has resulted from traveller culture of not intermarrying and as a result the Traveller gene pool is much smaller than normal society, this has seen them develop into a sub-race due to their incestuous lineage.

Similar traits can be seen in the tightly knit Amish communitys of the United States, Pitcairn Island and in remote tribes of Africa and the Amazon. I would love to see some medical research into it and they are definitely much more disease prone and live much shorter lives than settled society.

Not a seperate race but but a sub-race, similar to how Russian Causcasian people look so vastly different compared to Spanish or Italian Caucasians. And the average American Caucasian has lineage from all over Europe with German and Irish being the biggest lineage with intermarrying defined more along religious grounds than nationality.