K_user wrote: » People should always vote - voting is the only voice we, as a people, have. Politics is all about opinion and we are all entitled to one. Thats what makes life interesting. While I found Xclusiv Barber's comment a little offensive, I chose to direct my comment at the party politics, that keeps things clear and simple.
NotorietyH wrote: » Isn't in Sinn Fein policy to reverse the cuts in the last budget and replace it with their own budget of 4.7 billion in cuts? So yes it will increase the deficit.
sharkie66 wrote: » Ahh but you said that no Sinn Fein supporter had answered your question and I simply state that that is untrue because if you look back through the posts you Will find the whole truth you so badly need to take in. In doing so it might even lead to some sort of on the road to Damascus change in your thinking. On the other hand it might not now that I think of it!
Tipp Man wrote: » Things can get a lot worse than they are now you know. It is almost definite that if SF economic policy was implemented then by 2014, at the latest, this country would be economically ruined and people would be economically ruined. Don't forget nearly everybody in this country enjoys a very high standard of living - even still. That could all change very rapidly with SF in power
sharkie66 wrote: » if you look back through the posts you Will find the whole truth you so badly need to take in.
NotorietyH wrote: » I never said anything about Sinn Fein not answering a question. Think you have me confused with someone else. The question I myself have yet to see answered is where Sinn Fein intend to come up with the 18 billion or so deficit, not this year, but next year and the year after that after they've used the Pension reserve fund. I've yet to see anything even close to resembling a medium to long term plan from Sinn Fein. Except the notion that they can return to the bond markets after they'll have effectively frozen us out of them and in all likelihood end up paying a higher interest rate than we're getting from the EU/IMF. I just see no logic at all in Sinn Fein's proposals.
sharkie66 wrote: » Your choice of modal verb leads me to believe that you are not 100% certain regarding your assertion. Therefore I will take it with the pinch of salt such a statement aptly deserves. Another thing, Nearly Everybody is not Everybody so there are many out there NOT enjoying anything close to a very high standard of living.Sinn Fein are at least trying to make it a level playing pitch for all!
Tipp Man wrote: » Trying to make it a level playing pitch for all by ensuring that nobody has anything - we'll all be equally poor Your posts are waffle and when confronted with questions regarding cold hard numbers you simply avoid them. It makes the thread very tedious
sharkie66 wrote: » No need to go on the personal insulting thing there TippY! :eek::eek:
sharkie66 wrote: » Yep NotorietyH, mixed you up with Pete, sorry.:o
sharkie66 wrote: » Sorry but again I seem to be a little confused. I cannot for the life of me see where or what Barber could have offended you in any way! You lifted his reference to singing the British anthem and the strong recommendation that people go out and vote whoever they think right for the job. What exactly is the problem with that? Please elaborate a little further, thanks. Still confused
Xclusiv Barber wrote: » Every1 get out and vote or u dont hav a right to speak I'll be voting personally for whats in my and my familys interests. Ill be voting for martin ferris who does huge volumes of work in the community, and if he was independent he'd hav my vote .
Xclusiv Barber wrote: » Yes, The government should be rounded up in a field and chased around with pitchforks and cattleprods horsewhips, then bent over and taken roughly from behind. a lot of young irishmen would have died for nothing and you'd be singing god save the queen and loving it.
sharkie66 wrote: » Totally untrue assertion there Petey! Proof please...... Have you read through ALL the posts here by what you call SF supporters? Ehhh, I don't think so. Before posting such outrageous assertions please, pretty please READ all the posts! Ta
Tipp Man wrote: » Tell you what why don't you answer the question, how are SF going to fund the running of this country??
Tipp Man wrote: » I didn't insult you at all Just said your post waffle and avoid answering questions
sharkie66 wrote: » The question has already been answered! Go back through the posts. It isn't that difficult you know! :pac:
NotorietyH wrote: » They've followed the thread, they've looked at Sinn Fein's website, as have I, and the question has not been answered
Slothy wrote: » Yes, let put a load of Sinn Feinn, mentalers into power..... ? fantastic..... They have a great alternative to the IMF.... bunch of angry mob politicians... They are extremists a bunch of angry people. They will possibly capture the anger vote though and that is dangerous.... I will not give them even a 4 or a 5 vote, because I don't want them in the Dail, I don't want them in opposition or anywhere near government. Bunch of ex-IRA lunatics. Like jeeze do we want to be hearing from Gerry Adams? good god I will be choosing the best of a bad lot, just to keep the country stable over the next few years.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » SFs plan is to reject the EU/IMF bailout. They also say they will reverse the cuts made in the last budget. At the least the deficit will remain the same as it currently is. Therefore we need to find ~€17bn in order to pay for government expenditure (pay nurses, social welfare, oaps, etc.). SF want to use the NPRF to pay for this years deficit (they also want to use it for a stimulus package despite the fact that they will have already spent it). The NPRF will cover us for this year but what do we do next year? We can go back to the bond markets, they wont give us anything 12 months after we have defaulted on the last loan. This is where SFs plan falls flat on its face, they will only have enough money for this year and next year we will be left high and dry, with nowhere to borrow money. In that case we would have to close the gap between income and expenditure in one year, so €17bn worth of cuts in one budget which would do enormous damage to the economy. If you still want to vote for these guys you are in denial of the reality of the situation we are in.
takun wrote: » Agree ^^ The suggestion we all go back and trawl through hundreds of posts, most of which we have already read, in search of an overlooked gem that will make everything clear is an odd one. Even if such a post exists and I did miss it, a quick glance back will show that it is vastly outnumbered by the posts asking for clarity on the SF economic policy. If the policy is as sound and as clearly workable as we are supposed to believe, I simply don't understand why a clear explanation of how it would work it is not being posted here again and again and again, with pride. Or why there is not a clear and costed explanation of it on the SF website. If I were in any party, or running as an individual, and believed I had a radically different and workable approach to this awful economic mess we are in, I would be posting it everywhere I could as often as I could. I wouldn't even be waiting for people to ask.
Mario Daniel wrote: » FF and FG also have a violent past. .... Now down to convincing others, not an easy job since some of us still look at SF's violent as being relevant to today's Ireland and the GE.
Mario Daniel wrote: » In the North, SF is so committed to peace that they can't control violent youth as happened some months ago in a riot.
SnowY32 wrote: » Im voting Sinn Fein because they are not subservient!!! Fcuk the IMF:D:D:D:D
Cal_Egle wrote: » Again Pete, you are deliberately missing the point here... I dont mean to sound insulting, but anyone with any shred of wisdom would understand that once Irelad has defaulted on the PRIVATE bank debts (but continued to pay its truly sovereign exchequer debt ), stayed out of the markets for a year and then goes back to the market requesting further financing for the exchequer (and not further loans for insolvent banks), will be warmly greeted by the markets.... The country (excluding the Banking debt) has a relatively low sovereign debt per head of population versus most countries in the world. This makes perfect sense, but only to those with an iota of stratgic economic logic in their head. EVERY economic analyst outside of Ireland is saying this, even the EU are planning to bring in a mechanism to allow this for the other countries in the EU. The IMF have said its the right thing to do (although they dont like to admit it).... all the major International fincancial guidance companies are saying it. The only people who dont agree with this logic, are FF, FG, Labour, Greens ..... and people like yourself who are being scared into believing the lies of the Established parties and are thinking the way these established parties want you to think ..... and if you want to respond to this ..... or anyone else for that matter... then please... please.... explain how the FF/FG/Labour strategy is going to work.... Can you explain this to me .... 1) They (FF/FG/Labour/Greens) suggest we take the Banking debt and make it Irish Soverign debt... 2) We pay 5.8% interest on this money (The numbers i am hearing ar anything from 20billion to 80 billion, and dont forget, we have a third wave of baking debt to come from Home owner mortgage defaults coming, so this figure could increase by another 20-30 billion (the banks lent recklessly to gullible home owners who were told, the property bubble would never burst). 3) This will saddle our National debt interest repayment (not the loan repayment) with anything from 3-10 billion per year, depending on the way the wind is blowing from the FF/FG/Laboutr parties. 4) How the hell can a country that is taking in less than 35 billion per year in taxes , expect to pay up to 10 billion interest for a private bank issue. This is what the main parties are signing us up for ... and it will take a minimum of 10 years to gt rid of this Bank debt. Please... anyone ... explain to me how any of the established parties can make this decision on our behalf... and then ... we have other party faithfuls come onto this thread and other threads on Boards.ie and complain about SF's policies.... i just dont get it...:(
Slothy wrote: » yeah sorry I couldnt help myself. in my opinion they are an angry mob first. They dont think, they are just angry. Their policies sound crazy, and I have nerver read or heard anything sensible from any of them in regards to a good fiscal policy. In fact I would think most of their supporters are very uneducated and just angry too.[/QUOTE] I think this is both unfair and inaccurate.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » The bailout money is at an average interest rate of 5.8%. We were being charged around 9% before we got that money. Even if the bond markets would lend to us (unlikely less than a year after we refused to pay them back billions) imagine the interest rate they would charge us if we went to them now in a worse economic state than we were before (having told our major trading partners to go f*ck themselves). We are better off with the bailout rate. Iceland defaulted on banking debt but couldnt get money from the bond markets and needed the IMF to bail them out, what makes you think we will be any different? Our national debt doesnt come into it. National debt is never paid off, you only service the interest on it. We need to get the deficit under control because that is what the bond markets care about. The bailout money gives us four years grace to sort out the deficit which would allow us to borrow on the bond markets at a lower rate of interest than on the bailout. We borrow from the bond markets to pay off the bailout. Under SFs plan we would have one year to sort out the deficit. €15bn in cuts in one year, what do you think that will do to the economy? The ECB is currently buying Irish bank bonds because nobody else will touch them. They are only doing this so this so that we dont burn the bondholders. If we did the ECB would stop buying Irish bank bonds which would see the collapse of the banking system here. That would mean every person in this country losses all their saving and businesses can no longer access credit and they would cease trading. Basically there would be no money left in Ireland, do you think that is a good thing?
Cal_Egle wrote: » And the reason we were being charged 9% was because the government signed us up for the banking debt, and all the bond holders knew this was crazy, that we couldnt afford it, so they charged us this 9% interest rate... without it, we would still be sitting in the 4% region... and only borrowing what the country needed to service the country (and not the banks)
