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General Election Thread - Mod Note - please read post #1 before posting

Beasty

Clearly a General Election is now expected to be called for the New Year, although an earlier one cannot be ruled out.

While we are happy for local election issues to be discussed here, there are a number of conditions (in addition to all our normal rules):

1. Stick to this thread – if there is something significant enough to warrant separate discussion, PM the Mods – we can separate out relevant posts if appropriate.
2. Local issues only – national issues can be discussed in the Politics forum.
3. Do not use this as an opportunity to resurrect topics where previous threads have been closed.
4. No electioneering – this is not a forum for simply promoting individual candidates or parties, or having a go at those you do not like.

Anyone who contravenes these rules may be asked to refrain from posting in this thread again and also subject to infractions/forum bans.

Thanks

Beasty

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BroomBurner

Were there any canvassers out at all this weekend in Balbriggan? First weekend down, and not one caller to the door

Corsendonk

Hill Billy wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if there is any dip in local support for FG now that Kenny is 'too' busy to participate in the leaders's debate.

There is talk of a deputy leaders debate too but the Greens Mary White wants a womens debate so James Reilly might not get his chance to defend FG.

I know its a local issues thread but I can't say I can vote for FG in any preference if the guy looking to become Taoiseach can't debate with opposition party leaders because his own party view him as a liability. How can he argue Irelands position successfully with the IMF, Europe and the ECB if he is viewed as a liability by his party organisers when he opens his mouth in debate?

Eoineo

BroomBurner wrote: »

Were there any canvassers out at all this weekend in Balbriggan? First weekend down, and not one caller to the door

None here either. The only thing close to canvassing we've had is Alan Farrell going around introducing himself before the Election was actually called.

I do know that the train station is being regularly canvassed along with outside of the larger supermarkets though.

Fingleberries

BroomBurner wrote: »

Were there any canvassers out at all this weekend in Balbriggan? First weekend down, and not one caller to the door

Haven't had a single caller to the door yet. Dr. James Reilly was at SuperValu Balbriggan on Saturday and left me less than impressed - we had a few questions for him and he seemed more interested in shaking other peoples hands.

We understand that canvassing time is limited, and politicians probably only have so much time to 'meet' so many people. However, this left us with the impression that shaking our hand should be enough to convince us to vote for him.

I have tried to recall as much of the information from the conversation, with his answers in italics (somewhat paraphrased, as I can't remember word for word his answers). I've included a summary here, if it helps and it can be read OK.
Side Note: I have no allegiance to a political party and vote on who I belive has the best policies or can do the most for the country and the area.

On Healthcare: As someone who would have been on the Doctors side of the negotiating table (president of the IMO), will you be able to face your former colleagues and reverse some of the decisions that were made in their favour?
- Certainly, and they know that and that's why they are scared.
What changes can you make to the HSE, and if it is that easy why hasn't it been done before?
- It's not going to be easy, and the details are too long to go into here, but if you go to faircare.ie you will see our plan it's a 35 page explanation
[Side note: A visit to Faircare.ie currently shows the message 'Faircare is currently being updated and will return shortly']

On Jobs: We have a plan to bring 100,000 jobs to the country through Green Enery, Installation of Water Meters and Broadband provision. Not to mention that Metro North is key infrastructure and will bring 37 jobs to the area
[Side Note: I am not sure what the planned figure is, but 37 was the number he gave - petty to mention as I'm sure it was a slip, but I thought it's mildly smirkable:)]

On Water Meters: Every home will get a meter installed and will receive a generous allowance, and if they go over that allowance will be billed.
What will that allowance be?
- That will be determined by the number of occupants and their circumstances.
What provision will there be for quality of service?
- We need to improve the infrastructure, 25% of our water is lost in the ground due to cracks in the system. We will be creating a semi-state company, employing thousands to install meters in every home and manage the system.
Yes, but what about compensation for interruption of service? If my broadband goes down, I can get a refund from the supplier, what provision will there be when there is degraded service or interruption of water supply, can I claim a refund in such case and from whom?
- That's an interesting point, thanks.
Also, what about the quality of water, currently we are going through a kettle every six months and replacing taps and shower heads every two years?
- Ah, that's just lime in the water, that's nothing. It's not a health issue.

On Regulation: Who will be responsible for regulation of the new Semi-State water company? Also, who will be responsible for regulation in other aspects (Communication, Finance, Health, etc.)?
- The Regulator will be responsible and will answer to the minister
Therefore the Minister is responsible for managing the regulator ensuring that they are performing properly?
Yes

yknaa

BroomBurner wrote: »

Were there any canvassers out at all this weekend in Balbriggan? First weekend down, and not one caller to the door

Pretty sure Brendan Ryan (Labour) was in the town yesterday.

cathy01

Trevor will be in Balbriggan tomorrow and Malahide tonight.

The Hill Billy

As I'm working overseas (btw - I will be coming home especially to vote), I'm reliant on t'interweb for a lot of info rather than word of mouth, local press & especially face-to-face meetings with candidates & canvassers.

So, for the past few days I've been following the Twitter feeds of the local candidates (where I can find them) & have to say that I am deeply disappointed in the amount of 'negative' messages being sent out, particularly by Fine Gael.

I would estimate that a good 60+% of the FG tweets & 100% of Marcus De Brun's tweets have just been having a go at other parties' policies & campaigns. One FG tweet even slagged off FF for negative tweeting. Pot, kettle & black, eh lads! Also, there's not one of them who've tweeted any meaningful info about their own policies.

Based on this negativity I am seriously reconsidering my voting strategy.

LeoB

Hill Billy wrote: »

(btw - I will be coming home especially to vote),

I am deeply disappointed in the amount of 'negative' messages being sent out, particularly by Fine Gael.

Pot, kettle & black, eh lads! Also, there's not one of them who've tweeted any meaningful info about their own policies.

Based on this negativity I am seriously reconsidering my voting strategy.

Fair play to you for coming home to vote.

I think most people are sick of the slagging that is going on and it will effect result as people just wont bother. The other thing is I cant understand why F.G are being so negative when they are leading the race, What happens if we have Enda or James Reilly do another bad interview, where will the swing go?

Could we have another "Rainbow" type situation?

Some of the political reform proposed is interesting between the abolishment of the Seanad and 100 T.Ds and the fact Ministers can be appointed without being an elected T.D. (Did I hear that right?)

Corsendonk

Hill Billy wrote: »

As I'm working overseas (btw - I will be coming home especially to vote), I'm reliant on t'interweb for a lot of info rather than word of mouth, local press & especially face-to-face meetings with candidates & canvassers.

So, for the past few days I've been following the Twitter feeds of the local candidates (where I can find them) & have to say that I am deeply disappointed in the amount of 'negative' messages being sent out, particularly by Fine Gael.

I would estimate that a good 60+% of the FG tweets & 100% of Marcus De Brun's tweets have just been having a go at other parties' policies & campaigns. One FG tweet even slagged off FF for negative tweeting. Pot, kettle & black, eh lads! Also, there's not one of them who've tweeted any meaningful info about their own policies.

Based on this negativity I am seriously reconsidering my voting strategy.

FG also have launched America style TV adverts during the 6 o'clock news too. The negative tweeting might be an extension of this american style of electioneering were they spend more time attacking the opposition policies and conducting personnal attacks in the media rather than explaining their own policies and we all know what a great democracy the US has. The negative attacks is just a cynical approach to maintain their lead in the polls above 30%.

FG can't lose or rather they think they can't. Enda has no need to go on any TV debates, the Sunday Times ran a story yesterday dubbing the future Minister of Health "arrogant" because he has wrote to the HSE to tell them to stop the downgrading of Roscommon Hospital and leave decisions for the future government. So they are already in government, just waiting to see who will be their partner if they need one.

Corsendonk

LeoB wrote: »

Some of the political reform proposed is interesting between the abolishment of the Seanad and 100 T.Ds and the fact Ministers can be appointed without being an elected T.D. (Did I hear that right?)

I think you just blended 3 parties policies into one.

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

I think you just blended 3 parties policies into one.

Hopping in and out of my van, but knew I got the bones of it!!! Any excuse will do. I still have a liking an all party government, get the best in to do the jobs.

Interesting listening to Micheal Martin talking about reformjus now altough he says he discussed it with John Gormley in December. I do find it interesting proposition that they would have the power to appoint unelected people to ministries. Could this cause problems down the road? If Micheal O'Leary was brought in to do a job and then went back to his job with Ryanair would he have a private line to get what he wants at Dublin Airport viz charges and taxes? Same could be said of any chief executive.

Corsendonk

LeoB wrote: »

Hopping in and out of my van, but knew I got the bones of it!!! Any excuse will do. I still have a liking an all party government, get the best in to do the jobs.

Interesting listening to Micheal Martin talking about reformjus now altough he says he discussed it with John Gormley in December. I do find it interesting proposition that they would have the power to appoint unelected people to ministries. Could this cause problems down the road? If Micheal O'Leary was brought in to do a job and then went back to his job with Ryanair would he have a private line to get what he wants at Dublin Airport viz charges and taxes? Same could be said of any chief executive.

I think you will find he would go on a very long gardening leave or his contract states he can't go back to work in that industry. It would mean a very decent pension deal do.

The opinion lately seems to be that we need a professional expert as minister rather than rely on the experts in the civil service who failed to guide previous ministers. So Reilly as Health Minister etc The major problem with that is we are a small country so any Irish experts would be on first name terms with most of the vested interests so your leaving yourself open again to the golden circle.

So do we start advertising unelected Ministerial jobs in the EU?

The Hill Billy

Let's keep it local please. Thanks.

HB

LeoB

Corsendonk wrote: »

I think you will find he would go on a very long gardening leave or his contract states he can't go back to work in that industry. It would mean a very decent pension deal do.

So Reilly as Health Minister etc The major problem with that is we are a small country so any Irish experts would be on first name terms with most of the vested interests so your leaving yourself open again to the golden circle.

So do we start advertising unelected Ministerial jobs in the EU?

Reilly Minister for health I think means a big increase in Tax to pay for his health service reform!I dont see any other way.
I have stated before I am not a fan of private health care if we are already paying P.R.S.I. I have no problem paying €20 per week if it goes into health service but it should be then taken off your P.R.S.I.

On a more local note we are charged quite a bit for consultations with our G.Ps so maybe someone like Marcus deBrun would have a flat rate of €20 - €40 per G.P visit

Hill Billy wrote: »

Let's keep it local please. Thanks.
HB

I will be minister for letters and parcels and you can be Ambassador to Switzerland and the Hills:D
Corsendonk will be our man in Brussells and Beasty minister for Bikes

The Hill Billy

LOL. Good night all.

Beasty

Latest estimate of when the boards poll will switch on the full STV calculations - Thursday morning

The Rooster

Latest scores from the boards poll

1 DALY, Clare Socialist 62 19.4%
2 REILLY, James Fine Gael 55 17.2%
3 RYAN, Brendan Labour 45 14.1%
4 SARGENT, Trevor Green 41 12.9%
5 FARRELL, Alan Fine Gael 37 11.6%
6 KELLEHER, Tom Labour 28 8.8%
7 DE BRUN, Marcus Independent 26 8.2%
8 KENNEDY, Michael Fianna Fáil 13 4.1%
9 O'BRIEN, Darragh Fianna Fáil 12 3.8%

Gas that the two FFers have less votes combined than the next lowest candidate, De Brun!

335 votes cast so far, a bit on the low side to have any kind of proper idea. Hopefully we can get nearer the 1,000 mark by the end. It will be interesting though to see what happens with the transfers in any event.

Corsendonk

The Rooster wrote: »

Latest scores from the boards poll

1 DALY, Clare Socialist 62 19.4%
2 REILLY, James Fine Gael 55 17.2%
3 RYAN, Brendan Labour 45 14.1%
4 SARGENT, Trevor Green 41 12.9%
5 FARRELL, Alan Fine Gael 37 11.6%
6 KELLEHER, Tom Labour 28 8.8%
7 DE BRUN, Marcus Independent 26 8.2%
8 KENNEDY, Michael Fianna Fáil 13 4.1%
9 O'BRIEN, Darragh Fianna Fáil 12 3.8%

Gas that the two FFers have less votes combined than the next lowest candidate, De Brun!

335 votes cast so far, a bit on the low side to have any kind of proper idea. Hopefully we can get nearer the 1,000 mark by the end. It will be interesting though to see what happens with the transfers in any event.

Boards would be skewed against FF. Younger IT users caught up in the anti FF trend. FF would have a large older voting block 50+ who would come out in any weather if energised and I know we have all ages here but most of the voters would be below 50+ apart from the Mods:D

I can't remember when you register if you have to put in your date of birth then they could possibly pull out sampling to represent Irelands age demographics or individual constituency age demographics which are in the Dail Constituency profiles. Easy said than done do.

Thursday should be interesting do to see if typical FF voters that have turned away from them have given their 2nd,3rd,4th to them. Nearly 23,000(42%) North Dublin people in 2007 voted FF as a first preference.

Beasty

Corsendonk wrote: »

but most of the voters would be below 50+ apart from the Mods:D

I am sure HB would appreciate that comment

Anyway, you were one who started the "planning your funeral" thread:p

Corsendonk

Beasty wrote: »

I am sure HB would appreciate that comment

Anyway, you were one who started the "planning your funeral" thread:p

Just checking your both paying attention!! Actually you just reminded me I have an update for that thread.

CelticRambler

Corsendonk wrote: »

Boards would be skewed against FF. Younger IT users caught up in the anti FF trend. FF would have a large older voting block 50+ who would come out in any weather if energised...

Not necessarily. There was a report on Drivetime the other day coming from a voter participation class. They said there's a widespread belief amongst older people that if you don't put a ballot in the box, your vote is given to the current incumbents. Now I've never heard that before, maybe it's a Dublin inner-city thing, but perhaps there are a lot of hard-core FFers in real life who really don't want to vote against them, but can't ignore the reality of economic and social ruin all around (could they be the 20% "undecideds" in the poll?).

So they take the easy option - abstain, maybe thinking that their vote will go "by default" to FF ...

Jimdagym

CelticRambler wrote: »

Not necessarily. There was a report on Drivetime the other day coming from a voter participation class. They said there's a widespread belief amongst older people that if you don't put a ballot in the box, your vote is given to the current incumbents. Now I've never heard that before, maybe it's a Dublin inner-city thing, but perhaps there are a lot of hard-core FFers in real life who really don't want to vote against them, but can't ignore the reality of economic and social ruin all around (could they be the 20% "undecideds" in the poll?).

So they take the easy option - abstain, maybe thinking that their vote will go "by default" to FF ...

I have never heard that before in my life, and if true, proves the point that you should have to qualify to have a vote.

Corsendonk

Jimdagym wrote: »

I have never heard that before in my life, and if true, proves the point that you should have to qualify to have a vote.

Thats what Civics Class is for if teachers treated it more than a free class. A Licence to vote was raised in the politics forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056169993

Seems like another Quango. I do think that people here get confused between the UK first past the post and PR system.

LeoB

I think there is quite a lot of people who are very loyal to F.F and as the debates go on I think they will recover somewhat in the polls and ultimatley at the ballot box.

I think if young people tune into the debates and F.F do ok they might well question the policies of Enda Kenny & Eamon Gilmore.

It would be interesting to have a poll among leaving cert students in N.C.D to see what they think.

The thing for me at the moment is the credability of the F.G health proposals and how they will fund it.

There is another health issue and that is St. Itas in Portrane. What will ultimatley become of it? I think it should not be closed but developed in a number of areas.
Provision of mental health day care service
Treatment centre for addictions
Provision of respite beds
Provision of step down beds.
Provision of theraphy for young people with various issues, like attachment treatment and play theraphy.
There is a massive facility there with wonderful grounds and some great staff. Ok we saw the worst of it on T.V but its not all bad. So instead of knocking it develop it over a 5 - 10year period.
The value of the grounds have diminished over the last 5 years and there is huge pressure on mental health services and its growing so to me it makes no sense but to develop it. The H.S.E have purchased a number of house for various aspects of community care and dealing with social issues when it could have cost a lot less to provide facilities within St. Itas. I would have very little faith in any of this happening with Mr. Reilly as minister for health

SeaSide

LeoB wrote: »

I think there is quite a lot of people who are very loyal to F.F and as the debates go on I think they will recover somewhat in the polls and ultimatley at the ballot box.

I think if young people tune into the debates and F.F do ok they might well question the policies of Enda Kenny & Eamon Gilmore.

It would be interesting to have a poll among leaving cert students in N.C.D to see what they think.

The thing for me at the moment is the credability of the F.G health proposals and how they will fund it.

There is another health issue and that is St. Itas in Portrane. What will ultimatley become of it? I think it should not be closed but developed in a number of areas.
Provision of mental health day care service
Treatment centre for addictions
Provision of respite beds
Provision of step down beds.
Provision of theraphy for young people with various issues, like attachment treatment and play theraphy.
There is a massive facility there with wonderful grounds and some great staff. Ok we saw the worst of it on T.V but its not all bad. So instead of knocking it develop it over a 5 - 10year period.
The value of the grounds have diminished over the last 5 years and there is huge pressure on mental health services and its growing so to me it makes no sense but to develop it. The H.S.E have purchased a number of house for various aspects of community care and dealing with social issues when it could have cost a lot less to provide facilities within St. Itas. I would have very little faith in any of this happening with Mr. Reilly as minister for health

I do agree that FF will recover but not by much. Their demographics are older and this in shown in the boards poll. They will also loose much of their support as their voters die horrible deaths on hospital trolleys.

I would prefer to take a chance on FG and Labour policies rather than the proven FFailure of the last 14 years. Is there anything that they could have done to make things worse?

Ita's is supposed to be the new home of the central mental hospital if it ever moves

Eoineo

CelticRambler wrote: »

Not necessarily. There was a report on Drivetime the other day coming from a voter participation class. They said there's a widespread belief amongst older people that if you don't put a ballot in the box, your vote is given to the current incumbents. Now I've never heard that before, maybe it's a Dublin inner-city thing, but perhaps there are a lot of hard-core FFers in real life who really don't want to vote against them, but can't ignore the reality of economic and social ruin all around (could they be the 20% "undecideds" in the poll?).

So they take the easy option - abstain, maybe thinking that their vote will go "by default" to FF ...

I've heard this more than once in the past week from older Dublin people.

Still no canvassing in my estate.

cathy01

Ok, I can tell you Trevor done, Balbriggan last night, Tara cove area, and today done lusk/Rush I think.
I havent seen many around me just the two.
I think Im going to miss this thread when its all over.:)

Corsendonk

LeoB wrote: »

I think there is quite a lot of people who are very loyal to F.F and as the debates go on I think they will recover somewhat in the polls and ultimatley at the ballot box.

I think if young people tune into the debates and F.F do ok they might well question the policies of Enda Kenny & Eamon Gilmore.

It would be interesting to have a poll among leaving cert students in N.C.D to see what they think.

The thing for me at the moment is the credability of the F.G health proposals and how they will fund it.

There is another health issue and that is St. Itas in Portrane. What will ultimatley become of it? I think it should not be closed but developed in a number of areas.
Provision of mental health day care service
Treatment centre for addictions
Provision of respite beds
Provision of step down beds.
Provision of theraphy for young people with various issues, like attachment treatment and play theraphy.
There is a massive facility there with wonderful grounds and some great staff. Ok we saw the worst of it on T.V but its not all bad. So instead of knocking it develop it over a 5 - 10year period.
The value of the grounds have diminished over the last 5 years and there is huge pressure on mental health services and its growing so to me it makes no sense but to develop it. The H.S.E have purchased a number of house for various aspects of community care and dealing with social issues when it could have cost a lot less to provide facilities within St. Itas. I would have very little faith in any of this happening with Mr. Reilly as minister for health

How does you proposal stand with the Dutch Health system proposed by Mr Reilly? So far FG have proposed the Dutch Health system, the Danish banking system and the Canadian Negative Equality Insurance system. What next? The Swiss Cuckoo clock system to replace standard clocks.:D

Corsendonk

Dublin North Age Profile

Oireachtas Constituency Profile for Dublin North
Data sourced from 2006 Census.

Age Profile
More young people than the national average

More people in the 20 to 39 age range than the national average

The average age of the Dublin North population is 32.7 years. This is substantially less than the national average of 35.6
years. Figure 2 shows that compared to the national figures there are more people in Dublin North aged 19 years or under
(28.6% vs. 27.2%) and substantially more people in the age groups 20 to 39 (37.3% vs. 32.7%) than nationally. The share
in the younger age groups 0 to 4 is higher than the share in the age group 5 to 9 suggesting a need to increase primary
school places. The share of the population aged 65 years and older is much lower in Dublin North than the national
average (6.2% vs. 11.1% nationally).

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/library/constituencies_profiles/Dublin_North.pdf

Corsendonk

Eoineo wrote: »

I've heard this more than once in the past week from older Dublin people.

Still no canvassing in my estate.

No canvassers either, I did get my first election mail on Monday from Labour. I assume they got my address from the union rather than a general election register mail out.