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Irish people never stand up for what's right :(

Fukuyama

Why is it?

I was having a conversation with my mate today and we both agreed that Irish people never seem to stand up for the little guy against scumbags.

We've all seen security guards being hassled by big groups, or scumbags harrasing people on busses etc... even getting physical.

I can count three occasion where I've observed foreign nationals (eastern european blokes two times and an American the other) stepping in to help someone in trouble out.

The first was in a Mac Donalds when the security guard was getting pushed around by a group of around 15 lads (scum). Another on a bus when a junkie was starting on some small fella with his gf.

The most recent being outside my local mace. Group of around 20 scumbags hanging around. Started kicking the shutters. One of them (looked around 20 - bit sad tbh) tried to ram his bike into the shop at the security guard when this polish fella step in front of him and cloths-lined him off the bike (epic) and ****ed him back outside.

Never have I seen an Irish fella step into a situation.

Myself included.

Shame on us...

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Auldloon

Yes I have often stood up for the little guy. Sometimes taking a hiding for it as well and on one occasion my then girlfriend also got a hiding.... The woman we had come to defend meanwhile left the scene without a backwards glance. Getting a bit old for it now so I must admit nowadays I would just walk by:o

RichieC

starbelgrade wrote: »

I once saw a scumbag snatch an elderly woman's purse, so I drove after him & as he was running across the road, I knocked him over & recovered the purse.

Well, actually he wasn't exactly a scumbag & he didn't really rob a purse, but he was crossing the road & I did run him over.

Dam fine excuse though, sir.

Wolfe Tone

OP must have missed the whole history of irish revolutionaries standing up for what was right

starbelgrade

RichieC wrote: »

Dam fine excuse though, sir.

I actually came up with the excuse before I ran him over.

Not that I needed the motivation or anything.

Scuid Mhór

ascanbe wrote: »

Definitely not one and pretty sure i'm not the other.
Have a relative who is a teacher, though.
Just feel that you shouldn't tar an entire profession with the same brush. That might have been your experience in an Irish school: and if it was, it shouldn't have been.
Not right to label all teachers as being the same on that basis, though.

yeah, this thread was brought to another level of ridiculousness with lucozader's generalisations. don't mind him, ascanbe.

also i stand up for what's right. rarely does it escalate to a physical level though. solving things with words is always a good idea but there's times when i've been waiting in line for something and these lads start on another group of lads and the only thing you can do is choose a side and hope you chose the right one just in case they're about to do serious damage to each other. way i see it is i'd rather get punched then have to sleep that night, wondering if i could have stopped a knife being brandished.

if you know what i mean.

mikemac

Worked in hotels so walking home from work sober and seeing the messing in Eyre Sq

Ever step in when a couple are arguing on the street and the guy slaps the girl?
I tried to be the gentlemen and step in and they both turned on me :rolleyes:
How dare I go near "my fella" I was screeched at

So much for being helpful, I wasn't expecting thanks but then I wasn't expecting the girl to turn on me
This was in Galway, from them on a call to Mill St Garda Station was the only stepping in I'd do. And I mostly walked on by

WindSock

Oh there are plenty of people out there just waiting for the right opportunity to stand up for 'what is right'
These are often scumbags too, but waiting for someone to do something so they can give them a good self righteous hiding and get hero status after. They say that they were standing up for the victim, but in reality they were just as gunning for a fight themselves.

Fukuyama

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

OP must have missed the whole history of irish revolutionaries standing up for what was right

Mmmm....

WindSock

feelingstressed wrote: »

Worked in hotels so walking home from work sober and seeing the messing in Eyre Sq

Ever step in when a couple are arguing on the street and the guy slaps the girl?
I tried to be the gentlemen and step in and they both turned on me :rolleyes:
How dare I go near "my fella" I was screeched at

Really, unless she (or he) are getting the shit pummeled out of them, better to leave them to it.

man.about.town

i agree with the OP

nkay1985

I think there are a couple of reasons why people don't jump into a fight on the little guy's side. One is that 99% of the time you won't have been there for what preceded the fight so you don't know did he deserve a dig. Another is the fear that you might end up getting an awful hiding when you were only trying to calm things down. And imagine if the second one followed the first and you got a beating because you stepped into a situation where you probably didn't have to.

But I have to say that I wouldn't hesitate if one of my brothers or friends was started on because I know they're not the type to bring trouble on themselves. Thankfully it's never happened.

I did see a lad get two kicks to the head outside a chipper tonight on my way home from work. Massive crowd out in town and I heard some drunken lads (hammered college students) getting all excited because there was a fight. Looked out and one lad was kind of sitting up on the ground and took two kicks. Strangely enough there didn't seem to be much to it after that. The lad who kicked him walked off with his friends and the fella got up off the ground and walked away under his own steam. Who knows what it was over! The fella kicking him was a definite scummer though.

merlie

People these days may not be so willing as to step in where help is needed as they don't know what they may be getting themselves into. Who knows if a knife or syringe would be used on them. It is fear that keeps many from lending a hand so to speak and it is understandable, it is often hard to assess a situation and deem it ok to intervene. At the end of the day it is all down to the individual and the situation.

guitarzero

Id have to agree

Irish folk have turn out to be a bit spineless on all fronts, whether its intervening in those situations, political issues or merely voicing a real opinion. My mates have come back to me with stories like this and laughing about it, I dont see them anymore.

I think they prefer to laugh it off, just like, keep laughing and joking and laughing it off until they scrunch it into a little ball and then when they're a bit pissed they can go on a nighlink and repeat the ordeal themselves.

Keep on laughing paddy, ah sure ye have te' laugh paddy.

keepkeyyellow

I hate to say it but unless it was one of my nearest and dearest getting the bating I'd stay away, mainly cause I know full and well I'd be useless in a fight.

Doc

In the situations you described OP one person steeping in to help would have done nothing.

1 guy V’s 20 guys = very bad situation for the one guy.

1 guy + me V’s 20 guys = a very bad situation for both the one guy and me.

If you get involved in a situation like that unless you know the guys attacking the guy and can talk them into stopping joining in won’t help anyone. You will get just as bad a kicking from 20 people as you will from 10.

Plus in the situations you have said no one seemed to be in any real danger so coming in fists flying may only worsen the situation.

Also in a lot of situations you simply don’t know what’s happened.

Say your walking down the street and see two guys fighting one other guy.

Should you jump in and help the one guy without knowing why they are fighting?

I know a guy who was punched in the back of the head after coming out of a club and had his phone snatched out of his hand his mate saw and chased after the guy and cornered him. The guy who originally got punched ran after them and finding the two fighting joined in to get his phone back.

If you were just walking past you might think you should help the thief as it would look like he was the one getting mugged.

Having said all this I have gotten involved in a couple of different situations on a number of occasions. One was on the top beck of a night bus home one night were a scumbag got on and started abusing a really small guy who was out with his girlfriend. I’m not a big guy myself but I figured I had a much better chance then the guy he was picking on and kind of hoped that If he started on me the other guy might help. So I told him to leave them alone that they weren’t doing him any harm. The scumbag turned and started abusing me but a couple of other guys and girls on the bus who had probably been thinking the same thing as me started telling him to shut up and f off. soon everyone was abusing him and he moved downstairs. Often in these situations it only takes one person to speak up and it turns out everyone else feels the same way but thinks someone else will act.

If you know something is wrong and that you can help I think you should but each person has to make that call themselves and I wouldn’t blame anyone for not steeping in.

seanybiker

I stepped in a few times. Never anything mental where i needed to put on my bandana and go medieval or anything. Never seen anything really bad happen so i don't know what I would do.
Some people are scared to try help and there is nothing wrong with that. It's not irrational to be scared to jump in so I don't see the point of giving out about people who walk by and not do anything.

Noreen1

ascanbe wrote: »

Definitely not one and pretty sure i'm not the other.
Have a relative who is a teacher, though.
Just feel that you shouldn't tar an entire profession with the same brush. That might have been your experience in an Irish school: and if it was, it shouldn't have been.
Not right to label all teachers as being the same on that basis, though.

You should ask your relative what the Dept of Education advises re: schoolground fights.

I was told a few years ago, by a teacher, that they were obliged to treat both "combatants" the same.
I asked "Does that not deny the victim his/her basic human right to self-defence?". It hadn't occurred to the teacher, so ,I told them that my advise to my children was "Don't start a fight, don't be a bully - but if someone hits you - hit them back!".
The teacher didn't seem very pleased!

suicide_circus

I know what youre saying op but I simply dont trust
a) that the scum will not by carrying a screwdriver / syringe
b) that the justice system will find in my favour if I do open a can of whoop-ass on said scum.

This country is full scobies, scangers, scumbags, yobos and hooligans with hundreds of convictions, walking free, who will have no hesitation in kicking me to death, living off the social welfare I provide through taxes by breaking my bollix every day in work and then they subsidizing this income through theft, burglary and muggings and our judicial system will invariably find in their favour if I give them a beating. **** that tbh.

mickydoomsux

No way in hell i'm getting involved in someone elses beating. You're just asking to get a screwdriver to the guts or get kicked into a coma/to death.

Even if you can get the situation under control and the police arrive you'll be facing one side or the other of an assault case against scum who you really don't want knowing your name, address, family etc. You'll never have a normal life again because you'll be constantly harrased by scum who have nothing better to do with their lives and all the time in the world to do it.

Not worth it. Keep your head down and keep moving. Life is about surviving, not being the hero of the day.

david75

Have twice jumped in when i've seen this happen, gang of lads starting on/beating up a guy on his own semingly for no reason and both times i came off the worse for it and it's largely thankless. Don't think it'd stop me doing it again but i'd definitely asess the situation and look around for some sort of help/gardai before i did.

Duggy747

Reasons why you shouldn't join in (based on what happened to people I know):

You try and break up a random fight when next thing you're attacked, knocked out, hit your head off the concrete and is left sitting in a coma for nearly 2 months.
You're asked for help to break up a fight, you try to intervene when one of the people arguing fall, hit their head off the concrete and go into a coma on life support. Said people who asked for your help have now told the Gardaì that you intentionally put the man in a coma and next thing you're facing manslaughter...................until months later a witness finally steps forward and helps clear you.
You get slashed the fùck up with a blade.
Gardaì put you down as drunk & disordely along with those fighting and you have yourself some charges.

As much as I'd like to help in certain scenarios the above stuff sticks with me. Don't want get my face kicked in for something I might have the wrong end of the stick of or I wind up being taking in by the Gardaì for trying to help.

orourkeda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBShN8qT4lk

orourkeda

Isn't Ireland wonderful? We'll let someone take a kicking because we simply couldn't be bothered to help.

jimthemental

Stepped in once in Kilkenny and was very quickly put on my arse with my nose pumping blood, still though yer man got away because they turned on me

Snakeblood

super_furry wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2OR6Kjo5m4

We need our own version of this lad. He fights for the rights of EVERYMAN.

That's a lot of men.

I've based my life on his teachings.

Now I'm bright orange and I have an awesome mustache.

mickydoomsux

orourkeda wrote: »

Isn't Ireland wonderful? We'll let someone take a kicking because we simply couldn't be bothered to help.

Yeah, that what it is, not any of the other perfectly valid reasons already listed in the thread.

It's because people are too lazy.

strobe

Not an Irish trait. Happens everywhere, unfortunately. Also doesn't happen in Ireland all the time, sometimes people step up, just like it doesn't happen in other places all the time, sometimes people step up too.

I guarantee you there are English, French, Peruvian and American people saying the same thing about their own country or people right now. Only a few months ago one of those daytime shows featured a black guy on a London train threatening a girl while everyone sat there and did nothing until a German couple intervened. Cue the English presenters going on for 20 mins about "how come this only happens with the English? Why don't we intervene". I'm sure the situation has happened in Germany as well where it was an English tourist who stopped a woman getting mugged or whatever while locals stood watching.

Sorry OP, I know some little Irelanders love to point out all these things that happen everywhere and lament that "why is it only us and everywhere else is a utopia?" but we just aren't that special.

I've been in Holland and Australia and America and watched as Irish people where the first to jump to anyones aid and I've seen foreigners here look the other way when something kicks off. People are people.

scientific1982

If someone is getting a really bad kicking i.e. getting booted in the head while knocked out, you really have to do something.

Krusader

This happened in America, luckily the offender was caught and stood trial for attempted murder, but people on the train ran past him fleeing, the sick thing is he brought his son along, with was just a random attack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33_cL7EjRtk

RussellTuring

orourkeda wrote: »

Isn't Ireland wonderful? We'll let someone take a kicking because we simply couldn't be bothered to help.

Speak for yourself. You obviously ignored all of the people who said they wouldn't just stand by and let it happen.