snyper wrote: » Aye. To me this story reads that she was in an apt in a building the council want to vacate, and she wont move else where, i guarentee she was given plenty of notice, but because the apts are centrally heated as bambi said, they have to probably heat 10 of them to heat hers as well. She probably was afraid the council would move in if she moved for the cold snap. Either way, kids without a mother is sad, but there is more to this story than the headline suggests
El Horseboxo wrote: » I think people have a vague understanding of hypothermia given some of the comments in here.
Voodu Child wrote: » Not being smart but my gut instinct says that alcohol and/or drugs was a factor. Alcohol masks the feeling of being cold, and makes you lose core heat faster by dilating the blood vessels in your extremities. It also inhibits the shiver reflex which tries to keep you warm by burning energy. And if you have consumed so much alcohol or drugs that you're unconcious then you're a goner. It happens regularly in colder countries, where drunks fall asleep on benches and die from the cold. Genuinely I don't see how else a young healthy person can die of hypothermia indoors in Ireland, even during that cold spell. A sober person would be aware that they were freezing to death and survival instinct should kick in.
phasers wrote: » The Ballymun flats are not fit for habitation imo, and the council behaved appallingly by refusing to turn on the heating for the people that still live there. I can't believe that people are blaming anybody except the council. What any of your friends friends friends brothers did is irrelevant. A woman died because the council wanted to save a few quid. She'd been on to them, she'd been on to her local TD, she made sure her kids were warm. What else could she have done? The flats are draughty as fcuk. Any heat generated by stuff like the oven being on, little electric radiators or whatever else people are suggesting here would leak out through the windows and floorboards. Hypothermia is a strange condition and a lot of people obviously don't understand how it manifests itself.
Caoimhín wrote: » Would it be cold hearted to suggest that if she had no obvious physical or psychological problems, why is it societies responsibility to keep her warm?
ejmaztec wrote: » I'm not exactly a charitable individual, but even I can't believe some of the crap that some people have posted on this thread. They must be sitting in their "snuggles", drinking cocoa with the heating turned up, and posting bollocks on the internet.
Gummy Panda wrote: » I know. I'm surprised at some of the accusations from people here.
Voodu Child wrote: » Not being smart but my gut instinct says that alcohol and/or drugs was a factor. Alcohol masks the feeling of being cold, and makes you lose core heat faster by dilating the blood vessels in your extremities. It also inhibits the shiver reflex which tries to keep you warm by burning energy.
itac wrote: » +1 I've had hypothermia twice, once as a teenager on camping trip, and last January. Both times it was recognised in me by others, I had no idea what was going, other than that I felt roasty toasty and wanted a snooze...
Spudmonkey wrote: » On both sides of the argument. We have those baying for people to be charged with manslaughter even though the woman was informed she wasn't going to have the heat turned back on. It's not like the heating was turned off in the middle of the night without her knowing.
Cheap Thrills! wrote: » Yes, but it was her home.....maybe her Mother didn't have room for her or maybe she just wanted a quiet night in to herself..... She did nothing wrong. She's dead, she died of hypothermia. It's absolutely shameful.
tasha200 wrote: » ok, no I am sorry, and I am not looking for thanks..... This mother preserved her two children, who did not die of hyperthermia.. there is something unusual about this story or something that is not being told.. on the same night this mother died there were many many people sleeping on the streets or in and about homeless hostels in ballymun... on the same night there were people in galway, limerick, etc etc.. who have no shelter/heating/home etc....... there is something in this story not being told...
yes, the weather was unprecedented, but, in my opinion, for a 30 year old adult human being to die of hypothermia, only due to her heating being cut off, does not ring true..........
one, we all have self preservation in normal state of mind, therefore we would use any means possible to cover ourselves and retain heat... two, her children were with the mother, why wasnt said woman with her mother, three, even with electricity,
I had no electricity for over 20 hours over the christmas period, not because i didnt pay the bill, but because of a cut in the supply..... neither me, my partner, or my three children died of hypothermia,
noe did the 20 or so estimated homeless people on the streets........ I am in no way trivialising this womans death, but ofcourse there is more to this than a healthy woman, with two children, dying overnight, in shelter, from hypothermia, before people demand trial for manslaughter x
Naikon wrote: » Sounds fishy. It's not the antartic we're living. While I accept it's possible someone can die from hypothermia, something else must have been a contributing factor here.
Gulliver wrote: » Whilst I have sympathy for the woman and her family, there is something off here. She just gave up. I see this a lot with people these days - they would rather sit and complain about the situation and wait for someone else to fix it than use their own initiative to achieve a temporary solution in the meantime. Also, if there was no room, why not just sleep on the floor in the mother's place? Even in the hall?
mickydoomsux wrote: » This all seems very fishy. This woman was either a willing victim of our culture of helplessness or she was trying to kill herself.
No one stays in their house during an unprecendented cold-snap after being told beforehand that the heating will be off. Her ditching the kids is odd as well.
Caoimhín wrote: » It is indeed a tragedy, nobody is suggesting otherwise. I reacted to the daft comments that others should be found guilty of manslaughter. I am of the opinion that the old, the sick or the vulnerable in our society should be helped. I suppose where we might disagree is on exactly who in our society is weaker and to what extent they should be helped.
mickydoomsux wrote: » Well "people" didn't die, a person died. Also the times we're in didn't cause the unprecedented cold weather. There's more to this story than what's been published so far.
ebixa82 wrote: » Totaly agree. I would be very surprised if alcohol or drugs did not play a part. She was a mother but also a daughter. I'm sure her mother had an idea of the conditions in her flat, why didn't she take her own daughter in as well as her grandchildren? I'm sure room could have been made temporarily somehow. People talking about manslaughter is just ill informed, sensationalistic bullsh.it!
Dudess wrote: » "Manslaughter" ffs - even a horrible tragedy like this is used as an excuse for public sector bashing. That said, I temped in Housing for a bit as an office lackey, and no doubt about it, there were some officials all right who were very jaded and indifferent - but I know a guy who has mental health issues and a drug addiction and his parents were worried he wasn't warm enough and asked the council to check up on him, which it duly did. It's not completely staffed by callous bastards. This reminds me of those horrible cases of child abuse leading to the child's death, and the social workers getting the blame - I totally agree there are box-ticking bureaucrats, but it's all too easy to assume they're all the same. Some horrible "Meh, she knew what she was doing stuff" here. I love the "She could have gone to McDonalds for a cup of tea" stuff. Yes, because that's what we all do when we're not warm enough in bed...
tasha200 wrote: » I had no electricity for over 20 hours over the christmas period, not because i didnt pay the bill, but because of a cut in the supply..... neither me, my partner, or my three children died of hypothermia,
Caoimhín wrote: » Well what would you suggest then? Maybe employ a public servant of sorts to visit peoples house every night to make sure they are warm and have enough milk and bread?
Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: » You would have to be pretty stupid (the council I am talking about) to turn off somebodies heating, in January, during a cold snap which we are not used to, and think that the people in the house you refuse to supply heat to, will be ok. It's wreckless, negligent and shameful on the part of the scum that made this decision. Yes, manslaughter would be appropiate charge.
Debthree wrote: » Maybe not turn off her heating during the coldest winter on record in almost 50 years?
... after Dublin City Council refused to fix the heating in her property...
the doctor representing has called for an independent inquiry to her death, after the inquest heard that her heating had stopped working, and the Council refused to restore it – saying a number of flats nearby were empty, and there was ongoing building work in adjacent units. Rachel and her family had written to her local TD, former housing minister Noel Ahern, trying to get the heating fixed – but to no avail, leaving the flat “perilously cold” during the snowy snap of January 2010.
Spudmonkey wrote: » Yes but which she wasn't able to heat. From the report it has been said that she was informed of the fact that the heating was not going to be turned on. That implies she ultimately made the call (bad as it may have been) to stay in that apartment in those temperatures.A tragic accident perhaps but I fail to see how it was the fault of the council. Maybe there are more details to the case but that is how I see it from the report.
phasers wrote: » Because they turned off her heating, in sub zero temperatures, for no reason other than to save money. That's their fault. If she had heating in her home, she wouldn't have died. It's simple enough.
Spudmonkey wrote: » She took it upon herself to stay in that apartment in sub zero temperatures knowing full well what temperatures were like at that time of the year. That's her fault.
Spudmonkey wrote: » There are two sides to every argument.
