Cowen to issue Statement at 2pm

lugha wrote: »

Cowen lost the former only in the last few days,

technically he hasn't. His decision to resign was his own, but you are correct otherwise and people should be mindful of that.

Biggins

hinault wrote: »

Party before country, don't you know.
I hope people will remember all of these FF shenanigans when voting on 11th March 2011.

I know its been "party before people for some time" (see post 127) and have been saying that for years!
It's a depressing state of affairs in regards to FF mentality and mode of operating.

There is still die-hards what will vote FF.
I have an ageing uncle and despite the many, many crooked goings on, the wrong decisions, the lies and the hiding of truths, will still vote FF.

Sometimes its just unreal how thick and blind some people still can be.

bastados

bye bye Biffo.....

lugha wrote: »

And there is a flawed logic in arguing, that to be deficient in one job does not mean that they are deficient in another. They are entirely different jobs with mandates from different cohorts. Party leader requires the confidence of the parliamentary party. Being Taoiseach requires the confidence of the electorate. Cowen lost the former only in the last few days, he lost the latter a long time ago.

The leadership of FF is of no interest to me.

However when the incumbent FF leader is also the current Taoiseach and is trying to hold on to office during this country's economic implosion, then I think that it is not unreasonable to assert the view that I have in this regard.

If his own party accept his resignation as party leader, I don't see why the citizens of this country should be treated differently.

Biggins

hinault wrote: »

...If his own party accept his resignation as party leader, I don't see why the citizens of this country should be treated differently.

...Because in FF eyes, the rest of us come second or third in the queue of priorities!

lugha

Happyman42 wrote: »

technically he hasn't. His decision to resign was his own, but you are correct otherwise and people should be mindful of that.

Well I suppose he hasn't officially lost the backing of the party as they haven't voted on the matter. But in the same way you could argue that we can't say that he and FF have officially lost the support of the electorate until we vote on March 11.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Artsmart....breaking news....FG see the difference in 'Taoiseach' and 'Government'.

*Fine Gael to propose vote of No Confidence in Taoiseach

LOL.
so you're sayin the Taoiseach and the govt are two separate entities? wow. for real?

you're not a lawyer perchance?

ArtSmart wrote: »

LOL.
so you're sayin the Taoiseach and the govt are two separate entities? wow. for real?

you're not a lawyer perchance?

Why are Labour and FG making two different motions? Try really hard....

lugha

hinault wrote: »

However when the incumbent FF leader is also the current Taoiseach and is trying to hold on to office during this country's economic implosion, then I think that it is not unreasonable to assert the view that I have in this regard.

The argument for Cohen stepping down as Taoiseach can be made on the basis that he does have the confidence of the people (although in fact, it is the confidence of the Dail that he requires). Whether or not FF consider it better not to have him as leader going in to an election has no bearing on the matter.

hinault wrote: »

If his own party accept his resignation as party leader, I don't see why the citizens of this country should be treated differently.

Again, I say it down to different groups having the authority to make different decisions. The FF parliamentary party hire and fire their leader. The electorate hire and fire the members of Dail Eireann. And those members of Dail Eireann hire and fire the Taoiseach.
It would be a bit like (ok, very slightly like

) arguing that because John O' Mahoney was deemed not good enough to manage the Mayo football team it might be deduced that he is not worthy to be a TD.

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why are Labour and FG making two different motions?

One is in the party leading the state and one is in the leader of the state.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why are Labour and FG making two different motions? Try really hard....

uuuuugggghhhh.

plop.

got it

ha ha ha. i'm talking sub-text, not technically true. you know, the spirit of the law, not the letter. anyway, it's all good.

lugha wrote: »

Well I suppose he hasn't officially lost the backing of the party as they haven't voted on the matter.

lugha wrote: »

The argument for Cohen stepping down as Taoiseach can be made on the basis that he does have the confidence of the people (although in fact, it is the confidence of the Dail that he requires). Whether or not FF consider it better not to have him as leader going in to an election has no bearing on the matter.

As I replied to you earlier, I don't give a flying fcuk who happens to be leader of FF.
However when the FF leader (now ex- FF leader) happens to also hold the office of Taoiseach, then my interest is piqued.

I don't think that it is acceptable that the electorate should be expected to accept an incumbent Taoiseach, who is not seen fit to lead his own political party.

lugha wrote: »

Again, I say it down to different groups having the authority to make different decisions. The FF parliamentary party hire and fire their leader. The electorate hire and fire the members of Dail Eireann. And those members of Dail Eireann hire and fire the Taoiseach.

No argument from me in respect of these points.
Lets see if the Dail accept the notion that a person who cannot engender sufficient support to lead his party, can retain his position as Taoiseach.
Lets see if party before country passes muster.

Varadkar saying finance bill not import, so is other FF'ers (c.o'connor)but m. mcgrath says it is.

all about the finance bill now.

ArtSmart wrote: »

all about the finance bill now.

that's the sinister thing....the overwhelming desire to get this thing through before we have our say!

Happyman42 wrote: »

that's the sinister thing....the overwhelming desire to get this thing through before we have our say!

yeah, it's nonsense.

seems M. Martin getting a lot of support.

thankfully i've the house on him from a month ago. yipee! (11/4)

liammur

Ireland is an absolute laughing stock in the eyes of the world. Ministers resigning and getting hundreds of thousands of €. Not even a week ago FF had confidence in biffo, now he is gone. What does this tell us of this party?

ArtSmart wrote: »

Varadkar saying finance bill not import, so is other FF'ers but m. mcgrath says it is.

all about the finance bill now.

Pity they didn't act with the same probity before introducing the bank guarantee scheme in 2008, NAMA bill in 2009.....................

Just more sanctimonious claptrap from FF and the Greens.

ArtSmart wrote: »

yeah, it's nonsense.

seems M. Martin getting a lot of support.

thankfully i've the house on him from a month ago. yipee! (11/4)

The Lenihan's want their party back though! Watch out or maybe put half on Brian.

Happyman42 wrote: »

The Lenihan's want their party back though! Watch out or maybe put half on Brian.

nah. he was always a close second, but now it's over for him and the fool hanifin

M Mansergh on rte now

ArtSmart wrote: »

nah. he was always a close second, but now it's over for him and the fool hanifin

lol...watch the GodMammy cuff a few lugs and install Brian!

Happyman42 wrote: »

lol...watch the GodMammy cuff a few lugs and install Brian!

ARRGGGGHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

nah. dont think so.

M Martin de man

(though the lenny's shall attempt a coup down the road)

hotmail.com

It's very funny that all the FF TDs are talking about the next leader, barely even mentioning Cowen. It says it all for Cowen.