brianthebard wrote: » How convenient for you that the examples that prove your argument are so numerous you can't bring yourself to actually list them. Such bull.
RockinRolla wrote: » ...a vote for Labour at this stage, is a vote for Fine Gael - just remember that at the voting box. Labour will always play second fiddle to FG. I'm tired of this old dinosaur mentality. They only way Ireland will change in any way is to vote for either Sinn Fein and the ULA or The Libertarians.
CoalBucket wrote: » ehh Michael Lowry Nothing in comparison to FF but a history of corruption all the same and should not be ignored.
RockinRolla wrote: » They only way Ireland will change in any way is to vote for either Sinn Fein and the ULA or The Libertarians.
kincsem wrote: » Wikipedia Allegations of corruption This section may be confusing or unclear. The party, along with its coalition partners, was re-elected in the 2002 general election. It has been hit by numerous scandals. (Founding father Frank Aiken refused to run in the 1973 general election because the party had Haughey as a candidate while first leader Éamon de Valera told a senior minister in 1970 that "Haughey will ruin the party."[citation needed] Another former minister, Ray Burke, whom Ahern appointed to cabinet for a short time in 1997, was recently explicitly described by retired High Court judge, Fergus Flood in a tribunal of inquiry as "corrupt", and was jailed in January 2005 for tax offences. The privileged treatment accorded to Burke in prison was subsequently widely criticised, especially by Fine Gael. Former Fianna Fáil Government Press Secretary Frank Dunlop is giving evidence to a tribunal of inquiry in relation to his allegations that long-serving Fianna Fáil senators took bribes to arrange for planning permissions to be granted to particular property developers. Other councillors (past and present) from a number of parties, but predominantly from Fianna Fáil, are expected to be named. The tribunal has yet to judge the credibility or otherwise of Dunlop and his evidence. Former Fianna Fáil TD, Liam Lawlor was also accused of corrupt practices in relation to planning and development. He was jailed repeatedly for refusal to cooperate with the tribunal. He did not resign his Dublin West seat and continued to attend the Dáil, returning to Mountjoy Prison after the sessions, where he enjoyed most of the same privileges as Mr. Burke. Another TD, Beverley Cooper-Flynn of Mayo, was forced to resign from the party when it was revealed that she had advised people on how to illegally evade tax while working as a financial adviser for National Irish Bank. She was readmitted when she threatened to run as an Independent candidate, expelled again after she lost a libel action against RTÉ, and readmitted unanimously to the party shortly after Ahern's resignation. Kerry North TD Denis Foley was found to have held an Ansbacher bank account and subsequently could not seek re-election in 1997. Michael Collins of the Collins family dynasty in Limerick suffered a similar fate in 2002, when he was found to have evaded tax by the Revenue Commissioners. On 8 December 2005, Ivor Callely TD resigned his junior ministerial post after RTÉ News reported that a building contractor involved in public contracts had painted his house for free in the early 1990s. It was also revealed that Callely had offered to personally buy a new car for one of his civil service advisers, in an attempt to persuade the adviser not to leave their job. Apparently, Callely's department had an unusually high turnover of staff for some time under his stewardship.[13]Bertie Ahern, in September 2006 admitted having received payments from "friends" in the early 1990s which he termed as a combination of loans and gifts totalling £48,000 while serving as Minister for Finance. Damaged by the controversy initially, which included admissions of appointing friends to state boards and not having a bank account while serving as Minister for Finance, support for the party in opinion polls rose after Ahern described the circumstances of the payments to the public in an interview with RTÉ television.[14] Former Taoiseach Albert Reynolds stated in a radio interview on RTÉ that he would have told Ahern that taking such payments was totally unacceptable. As the then Taoiseach he should have been informed by Ahern and would have been very clear that accepting the payments was wrong. He said that many other options were open to Ahern such as getting a bank loan. [15] After the payments controversy, polling data suggested that Bertie Ahern's increase in popularity due to the payments controversy was primarily a sympathetic reaction. In September 2007, Ahern testified over a four day period at the Mahon Tribunal about these payments and his explanations under oath varied from day to day, being described by one of the sitting judges as "polar opposite"[16] In April 2008 Ahern announced his intended resignation as Taoiseach and party leader, naming May 2008 as when he would step down. The announcement came during a period of increased disquiet over his evidence to the Mahon Tribunal, in particular denials of foreign currency lodgements, which were contradicted in evidence given by his former secretary, who accepted that paperwork before the tribunal indicated a sterling lodgement was made by her on his behalf.
chopser wrote: » And almost of all the politicians mentioned above were then voted back in by the people of their constituencies.
feelingstressed wrote: » Michael Lowry too will top the polls. We have a good thread going in the Tipperary forum on the candidates.
Biggins wrote: » Something that you said there made me think. The good people of Tipperary are debating the possible candidates and thats rightly fair.
Biggins wrote: » National possible TD's should be elected on the policies they aspire to or hold with their party. National idealists should not be voted upon just because of their region basis alone or primary basis of local known character and localised actions/ideas.
feelingstressed wrote: » "where Tipperary leads, Ireland follows" :cool: But anyway, I've read threads in Mayo, Donegal and North Dublin forums. Maybe your own Louth forum has one of these threads
feelingstressed wrote: » A fair point but all I'd say is with the party whip system a backbencher can do very, very little. So little wonder they spend their time on local issues. I can elect a TD with a vision and new national policy but I know if the party whip orders them to vote for something they'll do it. So unless there is radical electoral reform or voters demand something new from their candidates, it'll be a decade before you see any change here...
Biggins wrote: » For a brief moment of hope in the last decade I had hoped for a new direction in Libertas that might be coming. However they/he turned out to be a joke and one that was suspicious/dodgy to say the least.
flynnlives wrote: » Time for a List system in elections to finally do away with parish pump politics.
Monty Burnz wrote: » Lowry was kicked out of the party when he was exposed. Compare Charlie Haughey Beverly Cooper Flynn, Liam Lawlor, Bertie Ahern - ffs, even Ivor Callely quit the party rather than be kicked out! Fianna Failure supporters I have spoken to (going back to the mid-90s when I became interested in politics) think everyone is out for themselves, and they have massive respect for those who get away with corruption (i.e. are good at it). Another good reason I hope to see the club set up for these people wiped out.
AskMyChocolate wrote: » .They actually think there's a difference between Bertie Aherne and Garrett Fitzgerald. Intellectual elitism and snobbery. The hallmark of FG.
Sergeant wrote: » What a strange comment. Whilst Garret FitzGerald was hamstrung by an economy destroyed by yet another FF "buy the election" policy under Lynch, he was a genuine force for social change in this country. Not a great leader, but to say he was no different than Ahern is a low blow.
AskMyChocolate wrote: » In what way does Fitzgerald taking backhanders from AIB differ from Bertie taking backhanders from builders? Let's not forget he was the first one to organise a bank bailout. Both parties believe in an inner circle of privilege whose gambling debts should be paid for by the 90% of the population who are not in that circle. He was most definitely a genuine force for social change. FF couldn't possibly have achieved the two parties' common goal of making the rich richer and the poor poorer without FG support.I find his smug, self-indulgent,self-exculpatory articles in the Irish times utterly nauseating and if one didn't know of the man's unbelieveable conceit and lack of selfawareness one would assume they were satirical in the vein of Alan Partridge. But then again what can one expect from a man who has taken €2,000,000 in pension payments from this state while pontificating on our lack of competitiveness and explaining why people on €16,000 a year need to be brought into the tax net. His tacit collusion in helping FF bring the price of an average dwelling from twice the median wage to ten times the median wage, (once him and Bertie's own dirt-cheap houses were long paid for) thus consigning an entire generation to homelessness or slavery,should not be forgotten either. Although the crowning achievement of both men's careers is probabably best explained by the fact that neither have a problem accepting their well deserved pensions of €140,000 per year while school children have to bring toilet paper to school with themselves. I suppose it would be remiss of me and churlish to sign off without mentioning the glowing terms with which both men were spoken of in the Ryan report.
mossyc123 wrote: » Fitzgerald doesn't want his ridiculous pension. Recently on Vincent Browne he spoke of the first cabinet (of which his father was a member) who recieved salaries of roughly €70,000 in today's money. Could you link me any evidence of him taking backhanders from AIB. You mightn't like his column but to suggest he wants to make the rich richer and the poor poorer is nonsense. He just wants Ireland to be on a sound economic footing and sees the ridiculously low taxes and uncompetitive wages as a genuine barrier to this. I genuinely believe the man isn't motivated by money or power and never has been, he just wants the best for this country. The difference between the 2 parties can be viewed throught the activites of their respective ex-taoisigh. John Bruton: EU ambassador to US. Chairman of IFSC Ireland with responsibility of promoting Ireland as a location for Financial Services. Albert Reynolds: ????? Wanted to be President. Garrett Fitzgerald: Columnist and Lecturer on Public Affairs. Contributes to the national debate in a constructive manner. Bertie Ahern: "Sports Columnist" Wants to be President.
K-9 wrote: » One of the banks, think it was AIB, wrote off an overdraft of his.
dabestman1 wrote: » It puts only a cap of 200,000 on civil servants, what value! No mention of serious political pensions reform. Cutting social welfare by 18% to 2014, etc
mossyc123 wrote: » Googled it and Shane Ross article from 1999 appeared. FitzGerald didn't accept the offer from AIB to write off the overdraft it seems.
adrian280582 wrote: » FF & FG are both same just would be seeing different faces on TV. And then you have Labour, Joan Burton sweet jesus imagine having her as minister? Sinn Fein no thanks
Liam Byrne wrote: » Sounds horrible to me. Neither the former nor the latter would represent my beliefs and views. Also a ridiculous statement, because Ireland could change in lots of other ways; I'm not saying they'd happen, or that I'd want them to, but - for example - Ireland could change if it became part of the UK. So "The only way Ireland will change in any way" is an agenda-driven, narrow-minded gross misrepresentation of facts; if that's how you'd operate in politics, count me out.
