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California Voters Reject Bid to Legalize Marijuana

drunkmonkey

California voters Tuesday shot down a measure to legalize marijuana under state law, disappointing advocates who hoped that young and left-leaning voters would swing an electorate that seemed to turn against the measure in recent months.

Looks like California isn't as liberal as we thought. Mexican drug lords must be jumping up and down with Glee.

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orourkeda

The Liveline influence is far and wide.

Arnie better watch out. The Joe is coming.

Zigmund

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Looks like California isn't as liberal as we thought. Mexican drug lords must be jumping up and down with Glee.

"Coming up next, Pablo Escobar singing "Don't Stop Believin""

orourkeda

Zigmund wrote: »

"Coming up next, Pablo Escobar singing "Don't Stop Believin""

This is Pablo Escobars party piece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3L4spg8vyo&feature=related

ScumLord

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

Misanthrope

drunkmonkey wrote: »

California voters Tuesday shot down a measure to legalize marijuana under state law, disappointing advocates who hoped that young and left-leaning voters would swing an electorate that seemed to turn against the measure in recent months.

Looks like California isn't as liberal as we thought. Mexican drug lords must be jumping up and down with Glee.

There's no problem getting weed in Cali as it stands.This is great news for growers.They're going to go on making a decent living off their efforts.If anything,voting against Prop 19 is the liberal choice.Why surrender their industry to the State who will mismanage it like they do everything else.

Augmerson

Misanthrope wrote: »

There's no problem getting weed in Cali as it stands.This is great news for growers.They're going to go on making a decent living off their efforts.If anything,voting against Prop 19 is the liberal choice.Why surrender their industry to the State who will mismanage it like they do everything else.

Interesting point.

orourkeda

Misanthrope wrote: »

There's no problem getting weed in Cali as it stands.This is great news for growers.They're going to go on making a decent living off their efforts.If anything,voting against Prop 19 is the liberal choice.Why surrender their industry to the State who will mismanage it like they do everything else.

I always thought California to be the stoners capital of america.

Johro

orourkeda wrote: »

The Liveline influence is far and wide.

Arnie better watch out. The Joe is coming.

Them dirty druggies Joe.. Injectin' that there cannabis Joe..

charlemont

Im very disappointed but we must smoke on.. now that the vote failed, its always gonna be illegal especially in Ireland but fu*k em...

PanchoVilla

As soon as I heard this I started to wonder if they used electronic voting machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs

gollem_1975

orourkeda wrote: »

I always thought California to be the stoners capital of america.

california's a state dude.

ps: by some accounts Oregon is :pac:

Cavehill Red

Misanthrope wrote: »

There's no problem getting weed in Cali as it stands.This is great news for growers.They're going to go on making a decent living off their efforts.If anything,voting against Prop 19 is the liberal choice.Why surrender their industry to the State who will mismanage it like they do everything else.

This is exactly the sort of fuzzy logic and misconception that saw cannabis smokers and growers vote against a law that would have legalised their industry and possibly commenced a wave of prohibition repeal across America and elsewhere.

Does the State legislature 'mismanage' the alcohol or tobacco industries? No. They simply tax and regulate them.

This was a classic coalition of fools - from grannies scared that nurses would turn up to work stoned to hypocritical boomers voting down what they themselves engaged in (while still expecting their pensions and benefits to be paid out of an empty budget) to idiot users and dealers who'd rather be illegal than pay some tax.

Of course, a lot of the particularly baked off-the-grid libertarian hippies up in the hills don't like paying tax. That's understandable, but Cali needs the revenue badly.

Meanwhile, thousands die annually south of the Rio Grande as drug cartels fight to control the flow of drugs to El Norte.

The rejection of Prop 19 merely ensures the cartels continue and so do the deaths.

As a wise man once said, there is no drug problem in Latin America, there is a United States problem. That problem is destined to continue, thanks to this vote.

Overheal

gollem_1975 wrote: »

california's a state dude.

ps: by some accounts Oregon is :pac:

No dude, california is a state... ... ... ... !

think about it

Sticky_Fingers

Cavehill Red wrote: »

This is exactly the sort of fuzzy logic and misconception that saw cannabis smokers and growers vote against a law that would have legalised their industry and possibly commenced a wave of prohibition repeal across America and elsewhere.

Does the State legislature 'mismanage' the alcohol or tobacco industries? No. They simply tax and regulate them.

This was a classic coalition of fools - from grannies scared that nurses would turn up to work stoned to hypocritical boomers voting down what they themselves engaged in (while still expecting their pensions and benefits to be paid out of an empty budget) to idiot users and dealers who'd rather be illegal than pay some tax.

Of course, a lot of the particularly baked off-the-grid libertarian hippies up in the hills don't like paying tax. That's understandable, but Cali needs the revenue badly.

Meanwhile, thousands die annually south of the Rio Grande as drug cartels fight to control the flow of drugs to El Norte.

The rejection of Prop 19 merely ensures the cartels continue and so do the deaths.

As a wise man once said, there is no drug problem in Latin America, there is a United States problem. That problem is destined to continue, thanks to this vote.

While I agree with most of this the link between cannabis and the recent Mexican drug war is not really an issue since only a tiny fraction of the US cannabis supply comes from south of the border. A more important factor I think is the criminalisation of large sections of public over such an innocuous drug. How many lives and careers will be ruined over needless drugs convictions just to keep safe the excessive profits of wannabe hippy Escobars.

Cavehill Red

Of course, it's a ludicrous waste of resources and an enfringement of civil liberties to be jailing people for cannabis usage when more dangerous recreational substances are legal for use.
But while California may well produce much of its own cannabis, that doesn't mean that other states like Utah or Texas do. There's no doubt that the Mexican cartels are involved in importing cannabis to the US. The fact that they also import other more lucrative substances doesn't eradicate the direct link between US cannabis prohibition and Mexican murders.

policarp

orourkeda wrote: »

I always thought California to be the stoners capital of america.

I agree! I agree!
Just don't Bogart the joint Da...

DOC09UNAM

Look at them being all high and mighty

Jamiekelly

Oh well, it should have been passed. The one thing I never got was the whole "cartel" argument....most of those cartels' main income doesn't come from weed lol. It comes from Cocaine and Heroin. If prop 19 did pass then nothing would change in those cartel wars...except the production of more Cocaine to compensate for the minor loss of the marijuana profit

Father Damo

orourkeda wrote: »

The Liveline influence is far and wide.

Arnie better watch out. The Joe is coming.

Oh Jesus Christ.

Headshops drugs were banned because the majority of them were

a- Fradulent overpriced dud drugs (spice gold etc etc)

or

b- Positively dangerous (BZP)

Get over yourself. Having been unfortunate enough to have taken both the aforementioned they had good reason to have been banned. Joe Duffy my cock.

And as for the prohibition arguement I havent seen much on the news to suggest massive amounts of the banned drugs are being trafficked here these days.

orourkeda

gollem_1975 wrote: »

california's a state dude.

ps: by some accounts Oregon is :pac:

I know that.

I think you know what I mean

orourkeda

Father Damo wrote: »

Oh Jesus Christ.

Headshops drugs were banned because the majority of them were

a- Fradulent overpriced dud drugs (spice gold etc etc)

or

b- Positively dangerous (BZP)

Get over yourself. Having been unfortunate enough to have taken both the aforementioned they had good reason to have been banned. Joe Duffy my cock.

And as for the prohibition arguement I havent seen much on the news to suggest massive amounts of the banned drugs are being trafficked here these days.

Relax it was only a joke.

No need to get your knickers in a knot.

NoHornJan

orourkeda wrote: »

Relax it was only a joke.

No need to get your knickers in a knot.

Do priests wear knickers?

reprazant

Cavehill Red wrote: »

This is exactly the sort of fuzzy logic and misconception that saw cannabis smokers and growers vote against a law that would have legalised their industry and possibly commenced a wave of prohibition repeal across America and elsewhere.

Does the State legislature 'mismanage' the alcohol or tobacco industries? No. They simply tax and regulate them.

This was a classic coalition of fools - from grannies scared that nurses would turn up to work stoned to hypocritical boomers voting down what they themselves engaged in (while still expecting their pensions and benefits to be paid out of an empty budget) to idiot users and dealers who'd rather be illegal than pay some tax.

Of course, a lot of the particularly baked off-the-grid libertarian hippies up in the hills don't like paying tax. That's understandable, but Cali needs the revenue badly.

Meanwhile, thousands die annually south of the Rio Grande as drug cartels fight to control the flow of drugs to El Norte.

The rejection of Prop 19 merely ensures the cartels continue and so do the deaths.

As a wise man once said, there is no drug problem in Latin America, there is a United States problem. That problem is destined to continue, thanks to this vote.

Or maybe people voted against it because the majority do not agree with it and do not want it legalised.

Just a thought.

Cavehill Red

reprazant wrote: »

Or maybe people voted against it because the majority do not agree with it and do not want it legalised.

Just a thought.

A very large clear majority under 40 did support prop 19, despite the misinformation which led to many cannabis users and growing voting against it.

I don't think they'll be fooled the same way next time.

Biggest opposition was among the over 65s (who were told their nurses would be stoned at work). They're dying out. There was opposition too among Asian-Americans (who are diminishing in population in the state) and big support among Hispanics (who are very much growing in population in Cali.)

All the demographics indicate that this measure or something very like it will pass sooner or later. The sad thing about it not passing NOW is that Cali could badly use the revenue right now, and instead will see massive cuts in services.

Cannabis was this week ranked miles below alcohol in terms of the damage it causes to individuals and society by The Lancet. There are frankly no coherent arguments remaining for the ongoing prohibition of a highly useful plant that has been cultivated by mankind for many millennia.

The only people who benefit from such prohibition are the alcohol and tobacco peddlers. I like a nice whiskey and I see no sense in preventing my fellow individual from enjoying their intoxicant of choice, especially since it is safer than my own.

Cali got duped this time around. There is a significant natural majority who see the stupidity in keeping cannabis legal. I'd expect this measure to pass quite significantly the next time it's presented.

FlutterinBantam

heh heh ...looks like the voters in the Golden state have a bit of sense eh:D

Why work your hole off to support a coterie of stoners and useless gimps who contribute nothing and take everything.

Bit of turpitude in the squats and ghettos when the jerks who ride the free wave of John Q Taxpayer to the limit, realise that the game is up.

Well done Cali voters, you guys got sense.;)

ScumLord

Cavehill Red wrote: »

A very large clear majority under 40 did support prop 19, despite the misinformation which led to many cannabis users and growing voting against it.

Any cannabis user/grower or anyone that works in the industry that's over there that voted against this was either a complete idiot or up to their eyeballs in crime. It's madness to want to remain in an illegal status for financial gain.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Why work your hole off to support a coterie of stoners and useless gimps who contribute nothing and take everything.

Bit of turpitude in the squats and ghettos when the jerks who ride the free wave of John Q Taxpayer to the limit, realise that the game is up.

What are you on about now? How do Americans that don't have social services like Europe going to end up paying for any ill effects of drug users, they won't even give care to tax paying cancer patients. They'd have just let them die on the streets or would have locked them up in jail.

Cavehill Red

ScumLord wrote: »

Any cannabis user/grower or anyone that works in the industry that's over there that voted against this was either a complete idiot or up to their eyeballs in crime. It's madness to want to remain in an illegal status for financial gain.

There was a lot of misinformation in the campaign, as there always is in relation to such debates.

Actual facts always end up taking second place to emotive unfactual responses on both sides. One thinks of the British government sacking their own drugs Tsar for advising them that their legal classification of drugs was arseways.

Some users and growers voted against Prop 19 because they felt it was the 'wrong' type of legalisation. Rather than see it as a stepping stone to better legislation, they decided to remain in the black economy. It's akin to those people who voted against divorce here because they felt no-fault or the four year wait weren't the type of divorce they wanted to have introduced.

Others are just happy with the current situation. They get their medical excuse, go to the 'dispensary' and claim their weed as medicine. The scale of the MM industry indicates that the vast majority of 'patients' are actually recreational consumers. In effect, weed is legal there already, with the caveat of a medical hoop to jump through. Prop 19 would have made this industry honest. Instead, people will continue getting bogey prescriptions for nonsensical ailments from dodgy doctors.

More significantly, others voted it down because they feared being taxed and having to set up in business, do paperwork, all of that stuff. It's a stupid reason to remain illegal and at risk of arrest, especially in a 3-strikes-and-you're-out judicial climate.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Father Damo wrote: »

Oh Jesus Christ.

Headshops drugs were banned because the majority of them were

a- Fradulent overpriced dud drugs (spice gold etc etc)

or

b- Positively dangerous (BZP)

It certainly wasn't A cos homeopathy pills are still legal

Shulgin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Others are just happy with the current situation. They get their medical excuse, go to the 'dispensary' and claim their weed as medicine. The scale of the MM industry indicates that the vast majority of 'patients' are actually recreational consumers. In effect, weed is legal there already, with the caveat of a medical hoop to jump through. Prop 19 would have made this industry honest. Instead, people will continue getting bogey prescriptions for nonsensical ailments from dodgy doctors.

.

It does seem that a large number of medicinal cannabis users voted no to keep the status quo. A lot of them like it the way it is and any change in the law could mess with their supply, either through aggressive federal intervention, or changes in how medicinal cannabis can be sold.

Pity it didnt go through this time, but it's coming, and soon.

Johro

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

It certainly wasn't A cos homeopathy pills are still legal

Homeopathic remedies though, whether you believe they work or not, don't do harm.