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Saorview Content Speculation

icdg

Feel free to speculate on what content will be on the free-to-air digital terrestrial television platform, which the powers that be have stupidly decided to name "Saorview" (thus leaving anyone that doesn't speak Irish confused as to what "Saor" means and leaving those that DO speak Irish annoyed that it wasn't called "Saorfeach". But that's neither hear nor there).

I'll start the ball rolling by predicting that there will be no additional TV channels other than RTÉ News Now, at least initially.

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The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is all very well to link to the press release of an appointment, but nothing has been heard of it since. This appointment was to be the central focus of the DTT project. All that has been heard of the office appointment is ...... nothing. Silence. Not a peep.

Do I assume that she has not taken up the appointment? Or that she is so busy being a Director of DTT that she has forgotten to make any press releases on how things are going, after all it is less than ten days to launch time? Is there going to be a formal knees up, and if so, where is my invitation? Is there even going to be a press release about it?

Hark! Nothing. I thought I might have heard a whisper.

Is she a figment of the DG's immagination? Goan hasn'y gone yet, maybe she has thrown her hat in the ring to replace him. We don't know anything about her progress in her new job, or about DTT from RTE. Or RTEL.:mad:

Agreed, that great wall of silence again.

She appears to have taken up the position if this quote from an interview with RTÉ's Steve Carson is anything to go by.

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

Agreed, that great wall of silence again.

She appears to have taken up the position if this quote from an interview with RTÉ's Steve Carson is anything to go by.

That is proving my point - appears . She has made no visible impact since she became the sole focus of DTT with a brief to co-ordinate all strands of DTT into one office. I know it is early days, but it is less than 10 days to launch. No appearance on Morning Ireland, Pat Kenny, Marian Finucane, or even Tubbs. In fact her only appearance is in an oblique quote from a colleague. Hardly great PR.

Even Biffo makes more appearnces on Morning Ireland than this - even after being up all night.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is proving my point - appears.

He didn't disagree with the statement.

Sam Russell wrote: »

I know it is early days, but it is less than 10 days to launch.

More like a week to the start of the public testing phase which is probably the reason there'll be nothing said before the end of the month. We may see a press launch the first week in Nov.

If they're serious about it Sunday 31st or Monday 1st Nov should be interesting radio days - Morning Ireland, Today with PK and Drivetime etc. Shouldn't be an issue on Joe Duffy's show until around ASO time.

watty

No.. I think it's maybe more than 6 months to launch.

I think now they are aiming for Both PSB mux up and running on 49 sites = 97.2% population coverage and Saorsat available. Would not surprise me if 2 of the 51 sites are dropped if Saorsat "works".

Info campaign will not start until AFTER the technical/Soft launch. Probably very softly till January/Feb and confirmation that Ka-Sat will 100% definately be available and they can fix the "Full Public Launch" date.

How can they start an Info Campaign now, today?

No firm date for both Mux running on 49 sites
No HD playout operational date for RTE1 and RTE2, maybe TG4 also
When does TV3 join DTT
No-one knows if Saorsat is available for maybe 10 to 14 weeks time from now (Jan/Feb confirmation).
They will want a bigger list of certified boxes and TVs for Publicity campaign than Walker.
Manufacturers will only pay the certification for Saorview after "Soft" / "Technical" launch as there are false starts to DTT going back to 1999!

All those point need sorted before an active & positive Info campaign can roll. That's why I'm very sceptical of there being much official marketing before Jan/Feb 2011.

The "premature" November Info Campaign

Full Public Launch date
There will be a full launch of DTT called Saorview when we have 49 sites, 97.2% population coverage. But RTE NL isn't 100% sure that will be in April. It might be.

What if I can't receive via my Aerial
Oh. We are going to have satellite for all the people that can't get it via an aerial. Since we are only doing 49 or 51 sites instead of 170 currently for Analogue, that might be 2% or 10% depending on how good RTE NL are at RF planning and how good your aerial is. Did we mention the Satellite doesn't exist yet? It will be launched soon and if it works will be ready for April. We don't know yet where you buy the special LNBF/Dish it needs. It should work with an UK Freesat HD setbox. But we can't be sure for a few months till someone tests it. Your existing dish won't work. A Sky box won't work, though existing RTE, TG4 and TV3 will remain for subscribers of UPC and Sky. Of course the Satellite Launch might fail, or it might not work when in Orbit.

Content
As well as all four existing Channels(Sorry we are not sure when TV3 is joining, so it's three existing) we will have TV3e (if TV3 want, but we have no date), a Children's Channel, The RTE News Now repeats (it's not really like the BBC news 24 yet) and RTE's Digital Radio Stations that a few people get via DAB, vTuner, RTE player etc. In the evening when we run out Kids programs we'll do a RTE1 +1, later when we run out of RTE1 we will have Euronews in early hours till the Kids TV starts at Breakfast time. There is Oireachtas TV online, set up years ago when they thought they would start DTT really soon. But the Government haven't told us yet when they will pay for it to be carried on Saorview. The Irish Film Board has been told to Fund an Irish Film Channel. But we don't know when they will do that, what they will show or if they will pay for HD. There will be no BBC or ITV channels. You can buy them from Sky, UPC or get them for free from Freesat with a Dish (not the same one as for Saorsat unless you didn't buy it yet and have a good installer).

HD
It's all HD compatible from Day 1. TV3 have said they are going to do HD someday and maybe build an HD studio in 2012. RTE will have HD for some programs on RTE2 first. But we are not sure when. Later RTE1 and TG4 will have HD. When there is money to pay for some upgrades. Sorry we don't have a date yet. So there might not actually be any HD this week or this month. But you need an HD receiver because it will be, some day. It's not Like B&W vs Colour. If the "tuner" doesn't do HD, you don't get B&W, I mean the basic picture. Though an HDTV is best (but some HDTV can't actually receive HD without a separate "set-box") a regular TV will work as long as a separate HD set-box like a Sky HD box, except different, is used.

How you know equipment is compatible?
It will have a Saorview logo. Except nothing except one company you never heard of has a sticker because big Companies don't trust us anymore. They want to see the service officially live first before they pay for certification and print marketing stuff. Some UK stuff works fine and some never will. It's very technical. So that's why you need to see the Saorview Logo. Except for Saorsat. That was a last minute "brainwave" to save €40M doing more transmitter sites. So we will figure out a logo program for that really soon...

I'd Catch the first flight to Russia if I was appointed to run Info Campaign and absolutely had to start it NOW or even before January.

"There are known knowns; there are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns; that is to say, there are things that we now know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns; there are things we do not know we don’t know."
—United States Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld

He left out "Trying to do Irish DTT Info Campaign before some basic Questions have Answers"

I mean... come on. How do you explain any of this to the average non-technical person?

Apogee

They can just do the half-arsed nonsense like with DAB where some parts of the country can get it, and the rest can lump it. And don't release any information or make any statements, because then you can't be held accountable.

watty

The Cush wrote: »

More like a week to the start of the public testing phase which is probably the reason there'll be nothing said before the end of the month. We may see a press launch the first week in Nov.

That's my view. Nothing except a 1st November 2010 press release till they can "fill in the blanks".

Posted maybe September...

Speculation on possible time scale

* Announcement on 1st November 2010 that yesterday Saorview limited
service started. 94.5% population coverage.
* After November 2011 (could be as late April): Occasional RTE2 in
HD, Start of DenTV & RTE News Now separate channel officially.
* Limited Public Information campaign from 1st November 2010
* November / December 2010: Some saorview certified TVs and setboxes
in Shops.
* Major publicity from January/February 2011
* An announcement of actual Public launch date in January or February
2011
* Sometime November 2010 to January 2011: Ka-Sat @ 9E launch via
Proton
* February/ March: Saorsat tests commence
* April/May: much variety of Saorview TVs & Setboxes

Currently in http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorview
was in http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/Irish-DTT-Sites
then was at http://www.techtir.ie/saortv
first blog post http://www.techtir.ie/watty/saortv 17th July. My how time flies and still so many unknowns.

SPDUB

watty wrote: »

How do you explain any of this to the average non-technical person?

You don't need to explain all that to average non-technical person at this stage just the fact that DTT is coming .

There were two people at my work who only have a telly for a bit of news and occasional show, so only have RTE etc , and they had no idea that their current telly won't be able to pick up any transmission without some extra equipment in two years time until I told them

And this is the type of people DTT is aimed at otherwise why bother building a new network and just tell people to use cable and satellite

endakenny

Why is the broadcasting regulator not threatening to strip TV3 of its licence for failing to pay for coverage on the relay transmitters? TV3's excuse that it's still negotiating with RTÉNL is unacceptable.

watty

SPDUB wrote: »

You don't need to explain all that to average non-technical person at this stage just the fact that DTT is coming .

There were two people at my work who only have a telly for a bit of news and occasional show, so only have RTE etc , and they had no idea that their current telly won't be able to pick up any transmission without some extra equipment in two years time until I told them

And this is the type of people DTT is aimed at otherwise why bother building a new network and just tell people to use cable and satellite

All agreed
BUT...
After you tell them it's coming what next?

So Nov to Jan/Feb you just say it's coming. But avoid explaining what is coming? It's a bit problematic.

Then Jan/Feb you tell them what is coming and when

At the minute there are too many blanks, too many questions people might ask that have awkward answers (as in We Don't Know Yet).

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

At the minute there are too many blanks, too many questions people might ask that have awkward answers (as in We Don't Know Yet).

All the technical tests are done and dusted, well nearly. The launch is after 4 years of trials/tests. The network is built for 95% of the population while DAB was launched claiming 50% population coverage. 3mobile claims 93%.

It is all political now. If it was launched today, and FreeviewHD boxes were declared OK, with RTENL having to make sure they were, then there is a ready supply at not too big a rip off price.

It ASO was to be 31st October 2011, then everyone would make sure they had the appropriate kit in place pretty sharpish. We converted to km/hour pretty wuickly if I remember, with cars still selling with mph for many months afterwards. When my old TV broke down, I had a replacement within days.

Remember, 80% of people do not watch RTE from an aerial. 300,000 homes. That is all. The success of DTT will be if that number increases and the $ky subscriptions fall so less money leaves the state unnecessarily.

ASO is the deadline, not the soft launch. We have had a long run of disapointments in this never ending saga of missed opportunites and demonstations on incompetence, the 1st of November will just be another one.

watty

So when will there be HD on RTE 2?
When Will TV3 be on it
When Will RTE1 & TG4 be HD
No-one can promise Saorsat or a Date for it until it's working
When will the 49 sites be complete with 2x Mux?
When does the oireachtas TV start? Why won't the Government pay TODAY for it. The infrastructure is all there. It Could be live 1st Nov.
When will the Fim Channel Start? Where Will Irish Film Board get the money to run it. Will it be HD? If not why not?
Will TV3e really be on it? No confirmation from TV3 yet.
What is date for Full Public Launch?

It's not true that 80% don't use an aerial. Many people with UPC/Sky use a TV aerial too. 80% pay TV is not equal only 20% using aerial

The soft launch is just to convince Retailers and Manufacturers that this time it's real and this is really the spec.

The important events are
49 sites working with 2 x Multiplex
HD playout running on at least one Channel
Confirmation that TV3 will be on DTT at Public Launch and what their intention is about TV3e
Live signal on Ka-Sat

The two important dates are Full Launch and Analogue Switch off.

The Government needs to legislate that channels MUST be on DTT at Public launch or be closed on Cable, Analogue and Satellite the next day. That will sharpen thinking.

The Government must legislate a date and minimum spec of set-top/TV to avoid "dumping" here of boxes & TVs that are unsuitable for DTT. Perhaps a deadline of April or May 2011. After that any Terrestrial Setbox must be Freeview HD or Soarview, minimum and any TV must be Freeview HD or Soarview. By 2012 boxes and TVs must be both.

Or something similar. The refusal of Government to fund or take action or responsibility is unacceptable.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

So when will there be HD on RTE 2?
When Will TV3 be on it
When Will RTE1 & TG4 be HD
No-one can promise Saorsat or a Date for it until it's working
When will the 49 sites be complete with 2x Mux?
When does the oireachtas TV start? Why won't the Government pay TODAY for it. The infrastructure is all there. It Could be live 1st Nov.
When will the Fim Channel Start? Where Will Irish Film Board get the money to run it. Will it be HD? If not why not?
Will TV3e really be on it? No confirmation from TV3 yet.
What is date for Full Public Launch?

These are political questions.
TV3 do not have to be on it. Same for 3e. Their licence could/should be revoked.
RTE2 will be HD when the new kit is installed for autodistribution and when 2nd mux is running. We know tests have been run on most sites for two mux operation.
Oireachtas TV can go anytime - political choice - as is who pays for it.

It's not true that 80% don't use an aerial. Many people with UPC/Sky use a TV aerial too. 80% pay TV is not equal only 20% using aerial

I know, but I was making a point.

The soft launch is just to convince Retailers and Manufacturers that this time it's real and this is really the spec.

So why not just launch, that will really convince them.

The important events are
49 sites working with 2 x Multiplex
HD playout running on at least one Channel
Confirmation that TV3 will be on DTT at Public Launch and what their intention is about TV3e
Live signal on Ka-Sat

The two important dates are Full Launch and Analogue Switch off.

No, the two important dates are - 1. When people are told when ASO will occur, and 2. When it actually occurs. DTT is working now, saying it is officially working is worth nothing in real terms. RTENL will still turn it off if they need to service it.

The Government needs to legislate that channels MUST be on DTT at Public launch or be closed on Cable, Analogue and Satellite the next day. That will sharpen thinking.

The Government must legislate a date and minimum spec of set-top/TV to avoid "dumping" here of boxes & TVs that are unsuitable for DTT. Perhaps a deadline of April or May 2011. After that any Terrestrial Setbox must be Freeview HD or Soarview, minimum and any TV must be Freeview HD or Soarview. By 2012 boxes and TVs must be both.

Or something similar. The refusal of Government to fund or take action or responsibility is unacceptable.

Well, they manage to fund Gov jets, long holidays, pensions for corrupt individuals, and bankroll the bankers, but not the sick, the old or the poor. What's new?

SPDUB

watty wrote: »

All agreed
At the minute there are too many blanks, too many questions people might ask that have awkward answers (as in We Don't Know Yet).

Only for people who want every single answer at once .

The people I told didn't want to know every single technical specification just the basic of what Digital TV was and would they need any extra equipment and would it be expensive.

So when will there be HD on RTE 2?... When Will RTE1 & TG4 be HD

They don't care about HD .As long as they can get a picture that's watchable

No-one can promise Saorsat or a Date for it until it's working

Not relevant for most people .

When will the 49 sites be complete with 2x Mux?
When does the oireachtas TV start? Why won't the Government pay TODAY for it. The infrastructure is all there. It Could be live 1st Nov.
When will the Fim Channel Start? Where Will Irish Film Board get the money to run it. Will it be HD? If not why not?
Will TV3e really be on it? No confirmation from TV3 yet.

The only real relevant question for most people still only receiving the Irish channels is whether they will get all the Irish channels as at present so the TV3 availability is the only real question

They just need basically a very generic info campaign that isn't trying to answer the questions frankly they don't care about .

Tom Slick

SPDUB wrote: »

. . . They just need basically a very generic info campaign that isn't trying to answer the questions frankly they don't care about .

. . . and they'll get it. Just wait.

SPDUB

Tom Slick wrote: »

. . . and they'll get it. Just wait.

Will they ? Frankly the speed the Govt. is proceeding at with the whole process I wouldn't be surprised if the info campaign starts in Jan 2013:rolleyes:

Tom Slick

The only people with real cause to be annoyed at the lack of info are, as usual, the early adopters (for trial broadcasts, remember). By the time analogue is switched off, the cost of an STB should be acceptable to Mr. Average.

The Cush

SPDUB wrote: »

Only for people who want every single answer at once .

The people I told didn't want to know every single technical specification just the basic of what Digital TV was and would they need any extra equipment and would it be expensive.

They don't care about HD .As long as they can get a picture that's watchable

They just need basically a very generic info campaign that isn't trying to answer the questions frankly they don't care about .

Agree with you 100%.

I've said it previously what we need is a plain-english DTT public awareness campaign and should have had it since 2008 covering the basics of DTT such as "What is DTT/Saorview", "What equipment will we require to receive DTT/Saorview", "When will I be able to receive DTT/Saorview" etc. etc. together with the Saorview compliance logo.

Those that want the technical specs can be referred to the relevant documents.

cjt156

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1029/breaking40.html

Irish Times reporting TV3 is now part of DTT launch - is that so?

Trial digital TV service launched
Television viewers in the 26 counties can now access several RTÉ channels in digital following the trial roll-out of Saorview, a new free-to-air digital television service.

RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3, TG4 and RTÉ News Now can be accessed as part of the trial. It is expected that more services and channels will be available once the full service is launched next year.

Announcing the plans today, Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan said: “Digital Television will improve the television experience for the viewer, with more channels, high-definition pictures, higher-quality sound, on-screen menus and digital teletext.

Irish homes have two years to upgrade their TV sets to receive a digital signal as the analogue terrestrial television network operated by RTÉ will be switched off at the end of 2012.

More than 1 million viewers currently use the analogue terrestrial television service in their homes.

The European Union has determined the end of 2012 as the date by which Ireland needs to launch a replacement digital transmission system to ensure all Irish audiences can continue to receive free-to-air television.

The end of analogue broadcasting will free up space for wireless broadband and mobile services and the Government estimates that the country will benefit by as much as €500 million over the next decade as a result.

"Today’s launch of the RTE digital television service, on a trial basis, is another important milestone in the advent of free-to-air digital television to Ireland. Television viewers and the country in general will benefit from this modernisation of our television service,” Minister Ryan added.

The Digital Television service will launch today from 24 sites around the country.

Mr McBoatface

It would appear to be the case, but it's not showing at the moment

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056074243

watty

Part of the launch as soon as they pay?

mossym

Irish homes have two years to upgrade their TV sets to receive a digital signal as the analogue terrestrial television network operated by RTÉ will be switched off at the end of 2012.

nice and clear, now people will think this is going to cost them a new tv, no mention of external boxes.

Sam Russell

mossym wrote: »

Irish homes have two years to upgrade their TV sets to receive a digital signal as the analogue terrestrial television network operated by RTÉ will be switched off at the end of 2012.

nice and clear, now people will think this is going to cost them a new tv, no mention of external boxes.

No, you can upgrade you TV by way of an external box, just as you can upgrade your house by way of an extension.

mossym

Sam Russell wrote: »

No, you can upgrade you TV by way of an external box, just as you can upgrade your house by way of an extension.

was my sarcasm in nice and clear lost?

do you not think the average person is going to read "upgrade their TV sets " as meaning they will need a new tv?

or am i the one missing sarcasm?

Sam Russell

I think the average person will consult the TV retailer who will try to persuade them tho buy a new TV, but will have a fall back position of a STB.

People will quickly learn what is necessary.

Tesco, Currys and other UK based retailers will flood the market with cheap boxes.

mossym

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the average person will consult the TV retailer who will try to persuade them tho buy a new TV, but will have a fall back position of a STB.

People will quickly learn what is necessary.

Tesco, Currys and other UK based retailers will flood the market with cheap boxes.

agreed, but you would think they would make the launch statement clear and accurate to avoid muddying the waters from the very start.

and if these are the same retailers(not all before i get in trouble) who will try and convince them that they need a 100euro HDMI cable to get HD, then i (maybe incorrectly)think sending people with the wrong ideas into the lions den is a very bad idea...

just make an accurate clear statement from the start, it's not like they are trying to explain the state finances or something

eh2010

How can I get these channels? I have a philips plasma screen tv that I got last year. Is it new enough for digital tv? I think its digital ready but i'll have to check. I have an aerial on the roof for picking up analogue signals will I have to buy a new one to pick up these channels? And what about a set top aerial will that work?

watty

Generally there is no difference on Aerials. No such thing as Digital Aerial http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorview

Peddyr

What you've all been waiting for and all you need to know here: http://www.rte.ie/saorview/

Looks like nothing to change until spring next year apart from changing the name of the current engineering tests to a trial once again. Trial, tests, trial, tests, trial, tests etc etc etc... More stalling...?

watty

I wondered why this one http://saorview.ie/ had a credit for a non-existant photo.

Stinicker

watty wrote: »

I wondered why this one http://saorview.ie/ had a credit for a non-existant photo.

I'd say the credit is for the Hurling image appearing on the TV, most of these sports images are heavily copyrighted.