Knocknacarra/Rahoon History

churchview wrote: »

Apologies. I forgot to comment on this bit of nonsense. I'm not talking about recently when they were there in the last 40 - 50 years. I'm talking late 19th and early 20th century. I'm sure you yourself were there at that time though and will therefore have a contrary view :rolleyes:

:D:D you shouldn't really comment on things you don't know or have not lived through - you said the encampments were around in your grandparents time, did you not - jeez if they were around in the 19th century, (1800's) then or early 20th century (early 1900's) then what age does that make you? in your 70's, 80's at least I would imagine, in which case you would know exactly what I am saying. nice try but no cigar

dolphin city wrote: »

:D:D you shouldn't really comment on things you don't know or have not lived through - you said the encampments were around in your grandparents time, did you not - jeez if they were around in the 19th century, (1800's) then or early 20th century (early 1900's) then what age does that make you? in your 70's, 80's at least I would imagine, in which case you would know exactly what I am saying. nice try but no cigar

My grandfather was born in 1884. My grandmother approx 5 years later.

What that has to do with historical facts relating to the area beats me though :rolleyes:

dolphin city wrote: »

: If you actually know about Galway at all, you will realise that Galway was basically made up of estates built around the town... claddagh, fairhill,

So Claddagh is an estate built around the town

You're quite the expert alright.

dolphin city wrote: »

:
Knocknacarra considered upmarket and people who thought they were better than others decided to purchase houses in Knocknacarra and Yes again I stress there were houses in Knocknacarra at the time - not farms - houses. again just because you didn't seem them from your bedroom window did not mean they didn't exist (unless of course you lived in a glass house LOL).

Go on, try to answer a question that's put to you, even if for the novelty of it. Where were these posh houses? Name us four or five families that lived in them

dolphin city wrote: »

:
I'm gettin tired of trying to explain the actual situation - again I suggest you speak to someone you trust and they will set you straight.

You don't explain anything. You make bald assertions, take umbrage when anyone disagrees with you and then ignore them when they put questions to you to try to make some sense of what you say.

dolphin city wrote: »

:
Knocknacarra considered upmarket and people who thought they were better than others decided to purchase houses in Knocknacarra and Yes again I stress there were houses in Knocknacarra at the time

What? This is just a statement, completely subjective and entirely nonsense. It's neither an argument nor an assertion. Do you know the difference?

Finally, Knocknacarra may have had some posh houses in the 19th Century. Noone, including me, needs to speak to their predecessors or ancestors to verify this. It's historical fact, clear from maps, books etc. There has been no poshness ever since.

There's no way Knocknacarra was posh 30, 40 or 50 years ago. The farms were joined by mainly ugly (granted a subjective opinion) bungalow blitz type properties whose only claim to poshness might be that they'd a quarter acre instead of the patch that surrounds most estate houses. Now, if you were living in one of these and therefore considered yourself posh, God love you!

churchview wrote: »

So Claddagh is an estate built around the town You're quite the expert alright.

Go on, try to answer a question that's put to you, even if for the novelty of it. Where were these posh houses? Name us four or five families that lived in them

You don't explain anything. You make bald assertions, take umbrage when anyone disagrees with you and then ignore them when they put questions to you to try to make some sense of what you say.

What? This is just a statement, completely subjective and entirely nonsense. It's neither an argument nor an assertion. Do you know the difference?

Finally, Knocknacarra may have had some posh houses in the 19th Century. Noone, including me, needs to speak to their predecessors or ancestors to verify this. It's historical fact, clear from maps, books etc. There has been no poshness ever since.

There's no way Knocknacarra was posh 30, 40 or 50 years ago. The farms were joined by mainly ugly (granted a subjective opinion) bungalow blitz type properties whose only claim to poshness might be that they'd a quarter acre instead of the patch that surrounds most estate houses. Now, if you were living in one of these and therefore considered yourself posh, God love you!

calm down dear or you'll give yourself a heart attack. I would rather post on what I know and lived through, not what somebody in the 19th century live through. I'll be the first to admit I wasn't around in the 19th century to experience what life was like then. If your granny would have been 121 years old now, I think you should have been around Galway at the time when Knocknacarra was considered posh and upmarket. Maybe you just cannot remember or are trying to forget LOL Now I suggest you relax a bit and don't be getting so worked up. I don't go on second hand experiences, just my own thanks.

dolphin city wrote: »

calm down dear or you'll give yourself a heart attack. again I would rather post on what I know and lived through, not what somebody in the 19th century live through - they were full of oul tales then and you couldn't trust what they say. I do however trust my own experiences and you won't make me change that dear. Now I suggest you relax a bit and don't be getting so worked up.

I'm not a bit worked up

I just find it a bit pathetic that people claim a place was posh when it wasn't, and clearly isn't. They then post tripe and are incapable of answering straight questions and they then accuse others of being wrong.

As for not trusting what people say, have a look at old documents maybe if you don't trust what people say? By the way, would these be the same people you advise other to "go and ask"?

Logic and consistency are beyond you. Clearly this is why you are incapable of addressing a single issue or question that's put to you.

You added the bit "if your granny..." since I posted this first? Are you doubting what I'm saying?

churchview wrote: »

I'm not a bit worked up

I just find it a bit pathetic that people claim a place was posh when it wasn't, and clearly isn't. They then post tripe and are incapable of answering straight questions and they then accuse others of being wrong.

As for not trusting what people say, have a look at old documents maybe if you don't trust what people say? By the way, would these be the same people you advise other to "go and ask"?

Logic and consistency are beyond you. Clearly this is why you are incapable of addressing a single issue or question that's put to you.

You added the bit "if your granny..." since I posted this first? Are you doubting what I'm saying?

saucer of milk perhaps?

dolphin city wrote: »

saucer of milk perhaps?

Answer question maybe?

churchview wrote: »

Answer question maybe?

maybe a nice game of golf should jog your memory - oh wait, sorry only farms allowed.

:D:D

dolphin city wrote: »

maybe a nice game of golf should jog your memory - oh wait, sorry only farms allowed. :D:D

I don't play golf.

What's that got to do with any of the questions I and others have raised on this thread?

"Only farms allowed" ???

churchview wrote: »

I don't play golf.

What's that got to do with any of the questions I and others have raised on this thread?

"Only farms allowed" ???

Im resting my case on that note.

dolphin city wrote: »

Im resting my case on that note.

That would require you to make a case.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Very interesting discussion on the history of the area there folks.

Let's keep it nice and friendly, and not unnecessarily question each others bona fide's.

/moderation

churchview wrote: »

That would require you to make a case.

Jesus you think one of you would set a date/timeline on the discussion and clearly fix what areas you are talking about, both of you are talking around each other and both right and wrong at the same time. As said above this could be interesting but atm its just weird.

brianthebard wrote: »

Jesus you think one of you would set a date/timeline on the discussion and clearly fix what areas you are talking about, both of you are talking around each other and both right and wrong at the same time. As said above this could be interesting but atm its just weird.

Yeah, fair enough. I can see where you're coming from.

The thing is, I'm genuinely interested in how anyone could view Knocknacarra as posh, now or ever. I've asked for specific instances of where the posh areas were, or who the posh people were and all I've got in return are entreaties to talk to my dead relatives, or been told effectively that I haven't a clue.

You can have a look at other posts of mine on other threads and you'll see that I'm not in the practice of personalising things.

My family have lived in the Knockncarra/Rahoon/Pollnarooma area for nigh on 100 years (actually significantly more come to think of it). I've a significant interest in the history of the area. I've researched it as a hobby for quite a while now. Therefore, when someone has a contrary view to the established view, I would welcome their providing information on it rather than just resorting to pointless flaming. {For the avoidance of doubt, this paragraph is not directed at brianthebard - just in case it might look that way}

And Brianthebard, what am I saying that's wrong? I don't want to argue with you - as I've said I'm interested in contrary views if it illuminates us all a bit more on this area.

churchview wrote: »

Yeah, fair enough. I can see where you're coming from.
[...]
And Brianthebard, what am I saying that's wrong? I don't want to argue with you - as I've said I'm interested in contrary views if it illuminates us all a bit more on this area.

Its not what you're saying is wrong or not, but it seems clear you are both referring to different time periods and possibly different parts of the Knocknacarra area, so for the purpose of answering one another's questions or debating the issue you are both wrong in that you are both answering different questions to what has been asked.

I'm not from Galway so I'm new to the whole issue, and I find it quite interesting. My impression is that Knocknacarra have been appropriated by some as an affluent address, or have attempted to claim it as such. I know from my research of the Galway Express that Taylor's Hill was an affluent area at least a century ago, and I don't think many would argue against that. I know that some people in the back of Highfield Park (where I live atm) have appropriated Taylor's Hill as their address again in an attempt to appear to be a well to do area. Anyways the point I'm making is that these things are changeable based on period or area, and for the thread to go forward people need to be a bit more specific in what they are referring to. For all intents and purposes Highfield Park is both Rahoon and Taylor's Hill at the same time, so one can be right and wrong to call it one or the other without expanding on the point.

brianthebard wrote: »

Its not what you're saying is wrong or not, but it seems clear you are both referring to different time periods and possibly different parts of the Knocknacarra area, so for the purpose of answering one another's questions or debating the issue you are both wrong in that you are both answering different questions to what has been asked.

I'm not from Galway so I'm new to the whole issue, and I find it quite interesting. My impression is that Knocknacarra have been appropriated by some as an affluent address, or have attempted to claim it as such. I know from my research of the Galway Express that Taylor's Hill was an affluent area at least a century ago, and I don't think many would argue against that. I know that some people in the back of Highfield Park (where I live atm) have appropriated Taylor's Hill as their address again in an attempt to appear to be a well to do area. Anyways the point I'm making is that these things are changeable based on period or area, and for the thread to go forward people need to be a bit more specific in what they are referring to. For all intents and purposes Highfield Park is both Rahoon and Taylor's Hill at the same time, so one can be right and wrong to call it one or the other without expanding on the point.

Thanks Brianthebard, that's very useful - I see where you're coming from.

However, I think that the other poster is referring to the same time periods as me, but has a different view of the area both then and now. It would be interesting if the views were explained though.

For the sake of clarity, the area which is currently Knocknacarra was an area of small farms with one or two "big houses" in the 19th Century and until the 1940s to 1950s significant building didn't really happen in the area. At that stage, some houses were built by people who moved to the area, but they would have never had the cachet of say, Taylor's Hill, or Salthill at that time. Since then the development has primarily been housing estates.

None of the above could ever be considered posh.

The Galway Express is very interesting. I presume you've had a look at the Galway Vindicator as well? Hardiman also refers to Taylor's Hill. Was Taylor a bishop or a mayor? - I can't remember off the top of my head.

Without a doubt Taylor's Hill was (and is) a more upmarket area. I presume that this was because until relatively recently (say the 1950s or 1960s), it had pretty much unfettered views of the sea while being high enough to be away from the rabble

There's a café in the shopping centre in Wellpark, in the corner between the cinema and Eddie Rockets, that has a great aerial picture of Salthill taken in, I reckon, the late 1960s. It shows all of Salthill, significant parts of Taylor's Hill and parts of what's since become Kingston. It's fascinating to see how much the area has been built on since then.*

On Highfield, I think I recall that when it was being built, they tried to get a vehicular entrance onto Taylor's Hill. The idea was apparently that this would make it more desirable - supporting your view of the address that's used by some there.

Nah I'm not looking at Galway papers in partiuclar, the Express was just a good example of a Southern Unionist paper from 1912 so that's why I picked it. I don't go out towards Taylor's Hill or Knocknacarra much so I wouldn't know what boundaries people use to describe the areas.

Sponge Bob

In the 1870s there was a single parish called Rahoon covering Furbo to Corcullen and right into town. Tom Kenny has a piece here

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/10353

I think Moycullen and Spiddal were one parish back then as well. Gradually new parishes were carved out of these twe megaparishes.

By 1912 most of what is now Knocknacarra was a rural area populated by small subsistence farmers in the parish of Barna. The rest was a rural area populated by small subsistence farmers in the parishes of Bushypark and Salthill and St Josephs, between them. Rahoon was a CoI parish I think, not a catholic one.

Knocknacarra, in 1970, would simply have referred to the crossroads at Knocknacarra cross and the hill south east of it. North of there was Clybaun and the Clybaun road. There were no estates back then...just a few houses on the Clybaun Road.

In around 1979 Bishop Casey announced a big churchbuilding program and a reorganisation of City Parishes. He built one church in Westside and one in Ballymoneen Road and one out by Tirellan ( and no doubt another few ) and created new parishes around some of them dating from then.

You may therefore thank Bishop Casey for creating Knocknacarra as an area rather than a crossroads and a small townland to its east and south at least in my opinion. A search of the excellent Advertiser archive ( archive.advertiser.ie) seems to confirm that.

Click

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,526086,724009,6

Select Historic 6 Inch to see the original area. Most of what is now considered to be Knocknacarra is Shangort Ballymoneen or Clybaun.

However the original Knocknacarra also included what we call Gentian Hill ( aka "Pill Hill" in the 1960s) and that bit is/was posh

doubleglaze

"Old Knocknacarra" was and still is an affluent area. "Old Knocknacarra", as one might term it, centres around the Knocknacarra Road and includes the estate Brooklawn, which comprises decent sized family homes.

New Knocknacarra might be considered to be across the road from Kingston Hall up to the Clybaun Rd roundabout or slightly north of that. Houses on Bóthar Stiofáin and east of that would definitely be in Rahoon in my view.

My understanding is that the Catholic church in Knocknacarra extended its boundaries eastward a few years ago, over as far as about Miller's Lane in Rahoon. Around that time, there was some politics involving a very influential Knocknacarra catholic church-attending councillor who wanted, at the time, the Knocknacarra Community Centre to be located in the heart of Rahoon (Miller's Lane)...

References to "class" are not in the spirit of Republicanism, which holds all people to be born caste-free and equal in nobility. I find the term "affluent" to be less offensive than references to "class" systems strongly reminiscent of monarchism/ a hierarchical view of human beings related to birth, but that's a separate debate for another place and time.

Sponge Bob

doubleglaze wrote: »

"Old Knocknacarra" was and still is an affluent area. "Old Knocknacarra", as one might term it, centres around the Knocknacarra Road and includes the estate Brooklawn, which comprises decent sized family homes.

Yes but old/real Knocknacarra has inconveniently renamed itself to Gentian Hill or Kingston in recent years and 'modern' Knocknacarra is north of the Taylors Hill to Barna road

I call it Knocknatallaght...purely as an architectural synonym mind :cool:

_Whimsical_

churchview wrote: »

On Highfield, I think I recall that when it was being built, they tried to get a vehicular entrance onto Taylor's Hill. The idea was apparently that this would make it more desirable - supporting your view of the address that's used by some there.

I was talking to someone earlier who was telling me their aunt was involved in making a history of Highfield and the surrounding areas at the moment. I think it's just a voluntary thing, maybe for a residents association to give out to residents. From what she said it'll be very interesting.

I have to disagree with some posts here. From my own experience of growing up in Galway I think there was definitely an attitude that Knocknacarra was "posh" around 20 years ago. I remember in primary school in Taylors Hill that almost all of the more well heeled children lived there and it certainly was a desirable address ...among children under 10 at least.:D

I think this was reflected pretty well in house prices at the time. If by posh the OP means by that it was collectively deemed desirable,populated by the professional classes and was expensive then I think they are right. Also when you have an area thats exclusively like this the people living there can develop a "superior" attitude...although it was short lived in Knocknacarra!

Rahoon definitely was not a good address or association at the time. I can remember as a tiny child driving up past Dunnes on the Seamus Quirke Road and looking at Caravans lining the entire play pitch side of the road. I'm sure that impacted on the reputation of Rahoon and the general area hugely and that people probably were very eager to have an address like Knocknacarra that they felt set them apart from that side of life.

Now Knocknacarra has sprawled and the demographic of its inhabitants has had a radical change. One change is that social housing is no longer all in one area or two areas of Galway creating ghettos.In my opinion thats a great change.It has also meant that now there are no areas that are free of it either so there's a much larger blend of classes. There are loads of other reasons including the fact that much more cheap housing estates have exploded around it too. I think very few places could own to being "posh" or exclusive anymore really.

doubleglaze

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yes but old/real Knocknacarra has inconveniently renamed itself to Gentian Hill or Kingston in recent years and

Agreed.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

and 'modern' Knocknacarra is north of the Taylors Hill to Barna road

I call it Knocknatallaght...purely as an architectural synonym mind :cool:

Hmm... I think you are starting "modern Knocknacarra" a bit too far east. I think Kingston is also the stretch immediately north of the Taylors Hill to Barna road (big detached houses and the Manor Avenue estate). I'd start "modern Knocknacarra" opposite the road from Kingston Hall and then north of that. North of Kingston is mainly Rahoon, in my view. The Altán appartments, for instance, would be in Rahoon. The new primary school would be at a junction between Kingston - Rahoon-Knocknacarra, leaning more towards Knocknacarra, in my view.

_Whimsical_

Where is "posh" in Galway now ?

What address draw a "uhhh" these days? I can't really think of any.

Sponge Bob

doubleglaze wrote: »

The new primary school would be at a junction between Kingston - Rahoon-Knocknacarra, leaning more towards Knocknacarra, in my view.

Shall we delineate Knocknacarra as 'west of monkey business' and Rahoon as 'east of monkey business' , purely for convenience sake of course

And what to do with Fort Lorenzo which is in the townland of Rahoon, not in Kingston and deffo not Taylors Hill itself ....much of which is ( ironically) in the townland of Taobh Garbh or "The Rough Side"

I know someone who lives in Taobh Garbh, I must send him a christmas card this year

doubleglaze

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Shall we delineate Knocknacarra as 'west of monkey business' and Rahoon as 'east of monkey business' , purely for convenience sake of course

OK, for convenience sake, I'll allow the houses immediately west of Bóthar Stiofáin to be labeled Knocknacarra (even though they really are in Rahoon).

Sponge Bob wrote: »

And what to do with Fort Lorenzo which is in the townland of Rahoon, not in Kingston and deffo not Taylors Hill itself ....much of which is ( ironically) in the townland of Taobh Garbh or "The Rough Side"

I know someone who lives in Taobh Garbh, I must send him a christmas card this year

I view Fort Lorenzo as being in Rahoon or, perhaps even, at a big stretch, Kingston, but most certainly it is not in Knocknacarra, nor is it in Taylor's Hill, though on a hill it surely is, but the wrong side of the hill to be either Taylor's Hill or Cnoc na Cathrach.

Never heard of Taobh Garbh - a sure sign tis not in Knocknacarra anywez!

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Where is "posh" in Galway now ?

What address draw a "uhhh" these days? I can't really think of any.

For me some of the older houses on what I think is sea road are very nice but I'm not sure that its big enough to constitute a distinct area nor that it is considered really posh.

Salthill must still be somewhat posh judging by the amount of people who put salthill as their address when they mean lower salthill, which seems to stretch almost as far as the wolfe tone bridge!

Also, someone needs to post a map and signage/division lines...

[Deleted User]

@ dolphin

regarding the flats and innishannagh.....

that estate was built about 20 years before the flats were knocked

deisemum

I'm in my late 40's and I moved from Galway in the mid 80's but no way would Knocknacara have been considered posh, jeez that's a laugh, someone must have lofty notions if they deluded themselves with that nugget. The Salthill area wasn't considered posh but Taylor's Hill was the upmarket address.

Compared to Rahoon especially the flats area which had a very negative reputation then yeah Knocknacara would have been seen as more upmarket but certainly not posh.

Shantalla was a bit more upmarket than Rahoon but still a dreary place.

Andrea B.

As it hasn't been mentioned;
prior to building of Rahoon flats, Salthill would have probably had the largest traveller camp, located beside the Pearse Stadium.