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Zamano

cormie

So on I think it was, March 7th, I got a text out of nowhere about some Podge and Rodge subscription and it told me text STOP to unsubscribe (unsubscribe to what I thought?). Apparantly I signed up to some service and it was done from my phone, the only way possible I think it could have been that my browser was activated while in my pocket and it did it from the homepage somehow, an unfortunate coincidence of random key presses in my pocket perhaps?

Anyway, it turned out I was charged 2.50 the next day after I got another text because I didn't text stop. I was afraid to text stop incase that itself would sign me up to something, these services are generally very sneaky. I rang o2 and they unsubscribed me but I wanted to find out where this company got my details from anyway and to get my money back. They said it'd be investigated and all that and I'd be sent a call log. I never got the log which was sent out on March 9th and that was the last I heard. I rang back today and they said it was investigated and they said the refund was declined as it happened from my phone and I didn't text stop! This was seen as them getting my permission:eek:

The lady the first day said it was done through a company called eirborne, I forgot the name of them today when I rang back but I asked who it was done through and the lady on the phone said she didn't have access to that info, I said the last lady in the same department was able to tell me, so why couldn't she. Then I remembered it was eirborne. I googled and saw eirborne was bought by Zamano!

It's only 2.50 yeah, but it's a matter of principal, I feel I've been robbed of 2.50 and I don't like the idea of it.

Any suggestions as to how I can go about getting what I believe is my money back?

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Mumha

BrianD wrote: »

Seems clear to me that ComReg (RegTel are now absorbed into this body) need to issue a directive on this. It seems unreasonable that you can actually subscribe to this service by hitting a banner advert on a mobile site. There should be a confirmation process that happens afterwards.

Nothing will change until somebody notifies Zamano and ComReg of this. It is worth while informing the operator that this type of advertising on their site is causing these problems.

BTW with premium short codes it is the operator that gets the largest chunk of the money with the service provider getting the rest. Complaining to your mobile provider is not effective - all they will do is e-mail the owner of the shortcode and request an unsubscribe and confirm when it's done. I wouldn't rely on it. The best way is to send STOP to the shortcode in the first instance.

On the other hand there are tens of thousands of people who happily sign up to theses services - many without reading the costs and small print. This is why your mobile operator may seem less than interested when you have problems.

But they ARE aware ! The big question is why a statutory body continues to do nothing....

You don't seem to understand that there aren't tens of thousands happily signing up - most are doing so unknown to themselves.

You also don't understand when this furtive sign up happens, you do not receive a text to say that you have signed up for a subscription service. You suddenly start getting texts out of nowhere which usually cost €2.50 or more each time.

Mumha

gollem_1975 wrote: »

Brendan Mullin ?

Shame on him, but then as someone who was involved with Quinlan Private, should we be surprised. Still though, he should be ashamed of himself.

gollem_1975

Mumha wrote: »

You also don't understand when this furtive sign up happens, you do not receive a text to say that you have signed up for a subscription service. You suddenly start getting texts out of nowhere which usually cost €2.50 or more each time.

+1

I never received a message at the start of the subscription.

however Zamano were able to provide a log file saying that a confirmation/information text was delivered.

02 say they have no record of these messages are they are "free" messages.

according to Comreg the provider has to provide another "free" message when the customer has incurred a cost of €20 for the service!

the latter "free" message was the only one I received. by that stage they already had provided me with €20 worth of links to download "exclusive" podge and rodge clips :mad:

however its my word against theirs and Comreg are siding with Zamano.

Raiser

Comreg don't give a fcuk what Zamano do as long as its not in the Print or Broadcast Media - all they care about it totting up their expenses and drawing a huge salary at the Taxpayers expense - being paid handsomely to effectively do nothing at all.

- Why don't 4 or 5 People from this thread contact each other and get some Radio coverage on Liveline with Joe Duffy??? I bet they'd go for it as I personally know of a lot of People who are very pisséd off and would imagine that a lot of People are in a similar situation and would no doubt call in to support this.

Mumha

gollem_1975 wrote: »

Did anyone manage to get a refund from this ?

Zamano via Comreg supplied me with a log file indicating that I did receive an unsubscribe info message when the suscription began ( i dispute this )

As suspected , the subsciption was triggered using a WAP service (the k800i problem)

Really felt that the benefit of the doubt should be with the customer ( esp. when its so obvious that I had no intent to subscribe to the service, and didn't download anything from them )

Yeah I got a refund from Zamano twice ! Both times as a result of the unlocked phone pressing against coins in my pocket, unknown to me at the time.

Mumha

Raiser wrote: »

Comreg don't give a fcuk what Zamano do as long as its not in the Print or Broadcast Media - all they care about it totting up their expenses and drawing a huge salary at the Taxpayers expense - being paid handsomely to effectively do nothing at all.

- Why don't 4 or 5 People from this thread contact each other and get 30 mins coverage on Liveline with Joe Duffy??? I bet they'd go for it as I personally know of a lot of People who are very pisséd off and would imagine that a lot of People would call in to support this.

Joe Duffy has already dedicated a week to this in the past, yet it still goes on.

A journalist contacted me in the past about doing a piece about it in a consumer program on tv but I haven't seen it since.

Comreg know it's very easy to stop this, but they are either completely lazy or in cahoots.

1 - I would make the provider stop making any clickable ad the first thing the "cursor" rests on, when the browser opens up.

2 - To start any subscription service, the SS provider must text you for permission to start deducting money, and how to cancel. By doing so, it will alert the phone user what has happened.

gollem_1975

if any journalist reading this thread wants to contact me about this then feel free to PM me.

suprised to hear you got a refund from Zamano over this mumha

I have jumped through a few hoops on this one and haven't had any joy.

perhaps in the current clime, companies are playing hardball.

I told 02 customer service that after over 10 years of being with O2 I was very dissatisfied with the experience and was seriously considering moving to another operator.

the answer was the same.."we're not refunding you"

Raiser

Can anybody provide clarification on Zamano's residency in the Digital Hub?

- Is it correct to say that they are taking advantage of the Irish State and its Taxpayers to effectively operate a shady Venture from within a State funded/subsidised platform while effectively stealing form the People who paid for their lodgings, and for all we know are still subsidising certain elements of their daily costs???????

Mumha

gollem_1975 wrote: »

if any journalist reading this thread wants to contact me about this then feel free to PM me.

suprised to hear you got a refund from Zamano over this mumha

I have jumped through a few hoops on this one and haven't had any joy.

perhaps in the current clime, companies are playing hardball.

I told 02 customer service that after over 10 years of being with O2 I was very dissatisfied with the experience and was seriously considering moving to another operator.

the answer was the same.."we're not refunding you"

I made the complaint on http://www.askcomreg.ie/about_us/form.asp

and this is the judgement i received

"On receipt of your letter, we contacted Zamano and requested the log file for your mobile telephone number XXXXXXX. A log file is an electronic read-out of all transactions sent and received during the course of subscription. In accordance with this file, your number entered Zamano’s Premium Rate SMS mobile content subscription service “Jakesweb Jake Stevens Videos” on XXXXXX at XX.00hrs. This subscription was created via the WAP portal. Your number was fully unsubscribed from this service on XXXXXXXX.

All Service Providers operating within this territory are obliged to adhere to a Code of Practice. In accordance with this Code once a consumer has subscribed to a Premium Rate SMS Service, Service Providers are obliged to ensure the consumer is fully advised that the service is a subscription together with the full cost of the service and information on how to unsubscribe. Having examined the information received by you, we were not satisfied that this information was provided to you as per the Code requirements. As a result of this, we have requested a full refund. To arrange this refund of €15.50 please contact Mr Donal McGarry, Customer Services Manager at Zamano on (01) 4893623.

In relation to your concerns regarding the creation of a subscription to this service, having monitored this service a user can only subscribe to this service by clicking on a succession of links and scrolling through the WAP site. If a consumer inadvertently subscribes to a service, they can unsubscribe immediately by texting ‘Stop’ to the relevant short code number. RegTel recently undertook a national publicity campaign to highlight this requirement and clarify for consumers the opting-out process from subscription services. Please refer to our website www.regtel.ie for further information. "

And that was just one of two.

Keith186

Does the EU law of a cooling off period apply to these services as they are 'distance selling' effectively. You are entitled to a full refund within a 7 or 14 day period if I remember correctly. Sorry don't have the time to look it up now. Could some of you take a class action suit against the company?

ComReg and NCA are a waste of time, they are effectively powerless and provide no service to the public other than a website. Try getting them to look into the cooling off period on distance selling on your behalf then to subscribe and sue them if they cant cancel without charge/penalty in the time period. Wouldn't hold your breath though!!

Luckily I haven't been unfortunate enough to be conned by these pr1cks yet but I will go all out to get them back if they ever do.

EDIT: http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/online-shopping/returning-unwanted-goods/index_en.htm

Colling off period is 7 days. A refund must be provided.
Tickets for travel holidays and leisure entertainment reservations are excluded such as plane tickets or gig tickets.
There texts would not appear to me to be excluded and do fall under this law.
Anyone think differently?

El Camino

gollem_1975 wrote: »

Brendan Mullin ?

Who is Brenda Mullin and what does he have to do with Zamano, Irish Rugby and O2? I genuinely have no idea and this all seems rather mysterious...

Also, aren't ComReg supposed to be in the process of reviewing this whole area and issuing a new Code of Practice to put greater controls in place for the whole PSMS industry.

I have to agree though - who actually wants to pay for Podge and Rodge clips or other worthless content via this medium. This is an outdated business model and subscription services for such content should be prohibited.

There are some genuine subscriptin services that i could see providing value e.g. news alerts etc. but with smartphones and internet accessability any demand for these services has to be on the slide.

gollem_1975

El Camino wrote: »

Who is Brenda Mullin and what does he have to do with Zamano, Irish Rugby and O2? I genuinely have no idea and this all seems rather mysterious...

Also, aren't ComReg supposed to be in the process of reviewing this whole area and issuing a new Code of Practice to put greater controls in place for the whole PSMS industry.

I have to agree though - who actually wants to pay for Podge and Rodge clips or other worthless content via this medium. This is an outdated business model and subscription services for such content should be prohibited.

There are some genuine subscriptin services that i could see providing value e.g. news alerts etc. but with smartphones and internet accessability any demand for these services has to be on the slide.

brendan mullin is a former Irish international rugby player.

+1 on your comment/perspective about the clips/business model

doleman2010

There is supposed to be a public consulation process being initiated by comreg sometime soon where the industry (if you could call it that)and the public will be invited to make submissions regarding how this business is run.
In my case I will have great pleasure handing over the false opt in records supplied by 02 to me when they stole from an 02 account of a dead relative of mine.
The cover up and excuses dealt out to our family by 02 were sickening and disgusting.
At all times their only concern was to circle the corporate wagons and deny and lie to the last.
At least I know now that my relative or their phone had no part in opting into a revenue gathering exercise by 02.
IF there is a decent journalist on this give me a pm I can tell you more , a lot more.
By the way ZAMANO is backed by the Irish tax payer through Enterprise Ireland . What a joke.

gollem_1975

Mumha wrote: »

I made the complaint on http://www.askcomreg.ie/about_us/form.asp

and this is the judgement i received

"On receipt of your letter, we contacted Zamano and requested the log file for your mobile telephone number XXXXXXX. A log file is an electronic read-out of all transactions sent and received during the course of subscription. In accordance with this file, your number entered Zamano’s Premium Rate SMS mobile content subscription service “Jakesweb Jake Stevens Videos” on XXXXXX at XX.00hrs. This subscription was created via the WAP portal. Your number was fully unsubscribed from this service on XXXXXXXX.

All Service Providers operating within this territory are obliged to adhere to a Code of Practice. In accordance with this Code once a consumer has subscribed to a Premium Rate SMS Service, Service Providers are obliged to ensure the consumer is fully advised that the service is a subscription together with the full cost of the service and information on how to unsubscribe. Having examined the information received by you, we were not satisfied that this information was provided to you as per the Code requirements. As a result of this, we have requested a full refund. To arrange this refund of €15.50 please contact Mr Donal McGarry, Customer Services Manager at Zamano on (01) 4893623.

In relation to your concerns regarding the creation of a subscription to this service, having monitored this service a user can only subscribe to this service by clicking on a succession of links and scrolling through the WAP site. If a consumer inadvertently subscribes to a service, they can unsubscribe immediately by texting ‘Stop’ to the relevant short code number. RegTel recently undertook a national publicity campaign to highlight this requirement and clarify for consumers the opting-out process from subscription services. Please refer to our website www.regtel.ie for further information. "

And that was just one of two.

what info did you submit to them that indicated that you weren't provided with the info. ?

do you have some photos of Comreg Ceo in an embarrassing position :pac:

The message I got from Comreg is almost identical to that you received except they are saying that Zamano did provide me with the info text.
Did the log file provided by Zamano indicate that you received the text ?

Comreg are saying that Zamano have proof that the message was delivered to my mobile phone handset. 02 have not record of it being "delivered" or "sent" . I never received this message so i can only assume that this "evidence" is suspect . i.e. Zamano can try to prove they "sent" the info text all they want but it does not prove that it was actually delivered.

cheers,

Gollem

owainglyndwr

I got a full refund from ZAMANO as they knew i wasn't going to go away ... I phoned every day .. They accused me of racism ! I'm still considering taking legal action over that slur .. I've got a Senator and minister of communications handling my affairs .. they are doing it because they knew i wasn't going to go away ... My secret is .. "Never lose your cool and never swear" just chip away at them .... I ran rings around Regtel before they merged with Regcom ... regcom are yet to deal with a pain in the ass like me.. "Don't give up !!

dudara

@HeavyRunner Please confine your posts to one thread.

dudara

HeavyRunner

I have tackled them on the Data Protection angle in that I did not give Vodafone permission to pass on my private mobile number to Zamano. I'm sure the same applies to O2 customers. There is a copy of my complaint here:-

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20809517/Zomano_Complaint.pdf

If you are on O2 bill-pay ring customer service and ask them do they pass on your mobile number to companies like Zamano when you use WAP services on your phone. They may have a different set-up to Vodafone. I'm not sure but would be interested to know.

doleman2010

It is good to see that people can take on these shower who think they can run rings around every body. they all seem to try and fob the consumer off, blame someone else, and that someone is always not in this country , they dont have a phone no or address and you can only contact them by email.
I had a year long battle with 02 ,in the end I got an apology from a director and the money stolen returned to me.
02 tried everything to stop the matter being investigated , they even provided falseified opt in records and lied to regtel and comreg.
They are totally frustrating to deal with, but this so called industry is very lucrative for them and their partners . they will do anything to prevent any investigation into them.

brightspark

Just lost over 5 Euro to Zamano this afternoon, a bunch of texts arrived at just after 5.30pm today.

3 were no help, they can't even provide an option to block them.

Their best advice was to look at www.phonesmart.ie

It's amazing how they can claim it's nothing to do with them, despite the fact that they must obviously hand the money over.

Just got a call back from 3, refund on the way.

karltimber

Just did a quick google search and found this - link

can't believe there is so much info on this company and that it's widely reported that the work from the Dig Hub.

this boils my blood. :mad:
hasn't effected me but still... :mad:

k

CJhaughey

I have had the unfortunate experience of being scammed by Zamano for just shy of 10 euro.
I first noticed texts coming through with something about seememobile on them, now I have an old SE K800i and the screen is so small that viewing video is pretty painful, the last thing I would be subscribing to is a video clip site.
I thought nothing of this until I received another text saying that I have been scubscribed to this service for 2x 2.50 per week. to stop test stop to 50***
Of course I immediately stopped the sub but too late to stop the 10 euro being taken from my credit.
I emailed Comreg and complained and was given a number and email to follow up on.
I won't let this rest and intend on pursuing this further.
What a shower of scumbags, if you offer a good product then people don't mind paying for it, but to manipulate webpages so that an inadvertent keystroke subscribes you to a very expensive service is deception and fraud in my eyes.
The mobile networks and Zamano are in this scam as well as the former minister Ryan and Enterprise Ireland were shareholders until recently as well.
Great way to run a country :rolleyes:
I am quite angry over this.

CJhaughey

Update:
After I emailed Comreg they advised me to request a logfile from Zamano
I emailed their Customer services team and today 10 days after first complaining I received a cheque for e20 in the mail.
Worth following up on to make them aware that people can and do fight back.

freakwencydb

Well done on this and at least Comreg stood up for the consumer, they seem to be a bit hit and miss as when you ring their call centre to speak to comreg you are connected to an outsource crowd in Waterford , who also handle calls for mobile phone companies here.
just look at the meteor threads on here and you will see the attitude that prevails there.

CJhaughey

To clarify, I received a cheque no logfile.

BrianD

CJhaughey wrote: »

To clarify, I received a cheque no logfile.

I'd ask for that!

The real issue here is that ComReg as the premium rate regulator need to issue stronger guidelines regarding these types of banner adverts appearing on mobile devices.

There should be no automatic passing of phone number through whatever means once the advert is clicked on.

At all times, the user should be required to enter their phone number or take some sort of affirmative action that indicates that they want the service.

I guess that when you examine both the premium service and the operators that they are following the guidelines to the "letter of the law". The letter of the law needs to change.

freakwencydb

The logfile would have provided you with the proof that you DID actually subscribe to the service!
This would have shown the sequence of events that should have taken place where you opted in and then consented to subscibe to the service.
The mobile provider should be able to give you the details also .but seing as they are business partners with these scammers they may be unwilling to help.
I have proof of a mobile operator here actually providing totally false opt in details to try to cover up a scam.
The onus is on the mobile provider and the content provider to prove that you did in fact opt in , after all they are the people who share your money between them.
Refunds only mask the underlying problem.

adee

Got 4 texts a few weeks ago, deleted them and thought nothing of it. Got another this morning and googled the number and found this thread. Called service provider who were no help - so called Zamano. They said that I actually texted them 'vod.tarot' to subscribe to the Tarot service on 24th July.
That is a complete lie.
What ever about people thinking about their phone browsed to a banner add while unlocked - the fact that they stated that I had texted them is very dodgy. I happen to know exactly where I was and what I was doing all day on the 24th.
Spoke to Customer Service's again just now, and they confirmed that my phone records will support that no such message was sent by my phone. Advised me to go to ComReg. Chatty guy, also said he deals with about 4 calls a day concerning Zamano, He said that he thinks Zamano randomly send texts to numbers, which is "a bit illegal but they do" and that they particularly target PAYG phones.
Zamano, when I called earlier, didn't even attempt to argue with me, instantly offered me a refund, which i find a bit strange considering some of the stories in this thread. Will let you know it it arrives.

freakwencydb

ZAMANO-RUGBY-O2-RUGBY.

ang1170

HeavyRunner wrote: »

I have tackled them on the Data Protection angle in that I did not give Vodafone permission to pass on my private mobile number to Zamano. I'm sure the same applies to O2 customers. There is a copy of my complaint here:-

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20809517/Zomano_Complaint.pdf

If you are on O2 bill-pay ring customer service and ask them do they pass on your mobile number to companies like Zamano when you use WAP services on your phone. They may have a different set-up to Vodafone. I'm not sure but would be interested to know.

Did you ever get a response to this complaint?

I'm in a similar situation myself at the moment.

owainglyndwr

ang1170 wrote: »

Did you ever get a response to this complaint?

I'm in a similar situation myself at the moment.

I got Senator Noel Coonan to fight my corner .. I got a full refund but i wasn't happy as they accused me of Racism i kid you not .. They said i refused to talk to their "Non Irish staff" ... I was tired with dealing with their customer service based in India so i contacted their Dublin office directly and said if they didn't give me a full refund i would phone every single day till they did .. I was good for my word