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Anti Islam rhetoric - on the rise ...

deravarra

Hi folks. Something I am very much aware of after reading comments in the Sky News website is the huge increase in anti - Islamic rhetoric. It's getting to a very nasty stage and I'm getting the feeling that it could go back to the 1930's and Germany.

Is it just the few, or do a lot of people have issues with normal, everyday muslims?

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deravarra

the_syco wrote: »

I believe Hitler wanted them to join his cause?

Did he? And why didnt they join up? Why no concentration camps in North Africa? Why only in Eastern Europe?

Social Disorder

deravarra wrote: »

if you come out from under your rock then we can go for a coffee

perhaps your mahatma was a good guy. said some very nice things about Mohammed! (Im serious!!!)

maybe his buddies would be good enough to follow his example:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-10-01-504329397_x.htm

2 Year old article. Small scale violence. You could also use the bombings in Kuta et el as an example but none the less they are rather small incidents in comparison. Especially considering the huuuuge scale or india.

In saying that, I believe all organised religion is wrong...Hinduism/Buddism just seems the better of the other other evils.

deravarra wrote: »

oh here we go ... a contribution from someone who knows nothing but feels a need to say something

the nine year old wife thing is well trodden and a piece of old tosh from an islamophobe.

Perhaps when you're finished reading the usual rubbish seen on certain websites, you could read something more enlightening and believable about Mohammed, such as the fact that he wasnt marrying 9 year olds

9 Year old wives is a law, as is stonings for being raped and other insane laws. You cant deny any of these...he was just making an example.

Saudi Arabia is light years behind the east for civil rights this is due to the islamic figureheads ruling with an iron fist. Example:

A Lebanese television psychic arrested and convicted of sorcery in Saudi Arabia apparently failed to foresee his own sentence to death by beheading, and now awaits the mercy of King Abdullah.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=190056

BlaasForRafa

deravarra wrote: »

Did he? And why didnt they join up? Why no concentration camps in North Africa? Why only in Eastern Europe?

Over 40k muslims joined the Waffen SS, mainly from Soviet republics. Most fought on the eastern front but some even ended up in Normandy defending it from the allied invasion on d-day.

Johro

Sharkey 10 wrote: »

I have a big problem with islam and not just radical islam. I cant hate people i just dont like their parts of their philosophy.
This is a double edged sword and there is alot of hypocrisy involved remember the time that danish magazine published pictures of mohamed , the reaction to that was ridiculous also more recently the reaction to the koran burning was awful.
Radical islam has to be adressed and not the way it is being at the moment

I would feel the same about the Christian Right. As for Islam, I have absolutely no problem with it. Fundamentalism, yes. But not just in Islam. We have our own fundamentalists. The issue of burning the Koran, it provoked such outrage because it was meant to do so. There are elements within Islam that I wouldn't feel comfortable with, but, again, I wouldn't be comfortable with all the Catholic church says and does.
Islam is being radicalised because it feels it is under threat. And it is.
Radical Islam won't be got rid of through wars, threat of war or anti-terrorist measures. It is most powerful in the poorest of countries. Give the people infrastructure, education, jobs and thus, money, and they will have no time for radicals, the Taliban, or Al Qaeda.
On the question of anti-Islam rhetoric rising, I'm not sure. In some quarters, yes, but they are predictable quarters. I think people are starting to see the other side of the coin, especially when talking about the Israeli/Palestine conflict. Here's hoping.

enfant terrible

I would think the Jews as usual are the most hated on boards.ie looking at the politics and conspiracy theory forums.

twinQuins

Look, if you're going to try and provoke a group of people you really don't have any business acting surprised when they actually react.

goose2005

deravarra wrote: »

oh here we go ... a contribution from someone who knows nothing but feels a need to say something

the nine year old wife thing is well trodden and a piece of old tosh from an islamophobe.

Perhaps when you're finished reading the usual rubbish seen on certain websites, you could read something more enlightening and believable about Mohammed, such as the fact that he wasnt marrying 9 year olds

But that's why Saudi Arabia has 9 as the age of marriage - if Mohammad did it, it's OK. He also owned, traded in and raped slaves.

deravarra

Social Disorder wrote: »

2 Year old article. Small scale violence.

It was a quick cursory search on google. I simply picked the first one there. You want me to go on? I can ....

Social Disorder wrote: »

In saying that, I believe all organised religion is wrong

Fair enough, your opinion. I wont piss on it

Social Disorder wrote: »

Hinduism/Buddism just seems the better of the other other evils.

Erm .... the "seems" would indicate blissfull ignorance, but hey, I wont condemn nor criticize!

Social Disorder wrote: »

9 Year old wives is a law, as is stonings for being raped and other insane laws. You cant deny any of these...he was just making an example.

In a few countries, yes it would seem to be so. Then tell me why, if the whole Mohammed marrying a nine year old is true, arent there more Islamic countries allowing this to happen? And dont even go down the route of them being more secular ...

Social Disorder wrote: »

Saudi Arabia is light years behind the east for civil rights this is due to the islamic figureheads ruling with an iron fist.

Agreed ... but instead of islamic substitute wahabi. Just like in the sentence:

Irish governments were greatly influenced by the christian churches catholic church.

deravarra

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Over 40k muslims joined the Waffen SS, mainly from Soviet republics. Most fought on the eastern front but some even ended up in Normandy defending it from the allied invasion on d-day.

Quite amusing that you post this in a thread about anti-islamic rhetoric. Unsurprising tho, given your history of comments in that vein

deravarra

goose2005 wrote: »

But that's why Saudi Arabia has 9 as the age of marriage - if Mohammad did it, it's OK.

Then why dont all the other Islamic countries have this as the norm? Are they not Islamic?

Johro

enfant terrible wrote: »

I would think the Jews as usual are the most hated on boards.ie looking at the politics and conspiracy theory forums.

For 'Jews', read the government of Israel. People who hate Jews won't be on these fora for long. They'll be banned, as they should be.

BlaasForRafa

deravarra wrote: »

Quite amusing that you post this in a thread about anti-islamic rhetoric. Unsurprising tho, given your history of comments in that vein

You asked a question. I gave a straight factual answer, whats your problem with that? I didn't pass any moral judgements on those men, most were Soviet prisoners recruited by the Waffen SS, some also fought for the Heer, this is history not opinion so don't go getting your knickers in a twist.

deravarra

Johro wrote: »

For 'Jews', read the government of Israel. People who hate Jews won't be on these fora for long. They'll be banned, as they should be.

Agreed!

deravarra

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

so don't go getting your knickers in a twist.

Y fronts actually

Doc

The Qur'an does not explicitly forbid images of Muhammad, there are a few supplemental teachings which have explicitly prohibited Muslims from creating the visual depictions of figures under any circumstances the key concern being that the use of images can encourage idolatry, where the image becomes more important than what it represents.

In Islamic art, some visual depictions only show Muhammad with his face veiled, or symbolically represent him as a flame however some other images, notably from Persia of the Ilkhanate, and those made under the Ottomans, show him fully.

As a non Muslim the Danish cartoonist is perfectly entitled to draw Muhammad although offensive to Muslims there was noting worse about it according to the Qur'an then me eating pork, in fact me eating pork is worse according to the Qur'an.

The response of the people to the cartoon that rioted destroyed totally unrelated western franchises and used it as justification for actions of violence was totally unjustified and against the teachings of Muhammad and the Qur’an.

deravarra

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You asked a question. I gave a straight factual answer, whats your problem with that? I didn't pass any moral judgements on those men, most were Soviet prisoners recruited by the Waffen SS, some also fought for the Heer, this is history not opinion so don't go getting your knickers in a twist.

would it be wrong for me then, to mention those Jews who joined the German Army? Or would that be seen as anti-semitic?

Dudess

enfant terrible wrote: »

I would think the Jews as usual are the most hated on boards.ie looking at the politics and conspiracy theory forums.

Anti Semitism is inexcusable, as is hatred of Israelis, and I'm not denying there are anti Semitic members on Boards, but criticism of the Israeli government's/military's treatment of Palestinians is not anti Semitism - even if some use it to further their anti Semitic agenda. Most criticism of Israel though is just based on an objection to bullying of a less powerful people (like objection to the nazis' treatment of Jews) - the fact that Judeaism is the predominant religion in Israel is only brought into it by those who cry "anti Semitism".

enfant terrible

deravarra wrote: »

would it be wrong for me then, to mention those Jews who joined the German Army? Or would that be seen as anti-semitic?

Are you worried about anti-semitism too or just anti islam feelings?

deravarra

enfant terrible wrote: »

Are you worried about anti-semitism too or just anti islam feelings?

Im worried about both to be honest ... and the whole secular extremism as Benedict referred to recently ...

I know I know ... a muslim referring to and agreeing with something the pope said ...:rolleyes:

scientific1982

deravarra wrote: »

Hi folks. Something I am very much aware of after reading comments in the Sky News website is the huge increase in anti - Islamic rhetoric. It's getting to a very nasty stage and I'm getting the feeling that it could go back to the 1930's and Germany.

Is it just the few, or do a lot of people have issues with normal, everyday muslims?

Strange. I would consider Islam a fascist ideology itself.

deravarra

Dudess wrote: »

Anti Semitism is inexcusable, as is hatred of Israelis, and I'm not denying there are anti Semitic members on Boards, but criticism of the Israeli government's/military's treatment of Palestinians is not anti Semitism - even if some use it to further their anti Semitic agenda. Most criticism of Israel though is just based on an objection to bullying of a less powerful people (like objection to the nazis' treatment of Jews) - the fact that Judeaism is the predominant religion in Israel is only brought into it by those who cry "anti Semitism".

and those who support the palestinians are accused of being terrorists, jihadists and such

enfant terrible

deravarra wrote: »

Im worried about both to be honest ... and the whole secular extremism as Benedict referred to recently ...

I know I know ... a muslim referring to and agreeing with something the pope said ...:rolleyes:

Fair enough

deravarra

scientific1982 wrote: »

Strange. I would consider Islam a fascist ideology itself.

really? how come?

BlaasForRafa

deravarra wrote: »

would it be wrong for me then, to mention those Jews who joined the German Army? Or would that be seen as anti-semitic?

:rolleyes:

its common knowledge that jews fought in the Wehrmacht. Mentioning that is as anti-semitic as mentioning that muslims fought in the Wehrmacht is anti-islamic.

deravarra

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

:rolleyes:

its common knowledge that jews fought in the Wehrmacht. Mentioning that is as anti-semitic as mentioning that muslims fought in the Wehrmacht is anti-islamic.

the number of muslims you mentioned tho ... far less than what Im reading as the number of Jews who fought in the Wehrmacht ... some 150,000 according to Mark Rigg's book

Sharkey 10

Johro wrote: »

I would feel the same about the Christian Right. As for Islam, I have absolutely no problem with it. Fundamentalism, yes. But not just in Islam. We have our own fundamentalists. The issue of burning the Koran, it provoked such outrage because it was meant to do so. There are elements within Islam that I wouldn't feel comfortable with, but, again, I wouldn't be comfortable with all the Catholic church says and does.
Islam is being radicalised because it feels it is under threat. And it is.
Radical Islam won't be got rid of through wars, threat of war or anti-terrorist measures. It is most powerful in the poorest of countries. Give the people infrastructure, education, jobs and thus, money, and they will have no time for radicals, the Taliban, or Al Qaeda.
On the question of anti-Islam rhetoric rising, I'm not sure. In some quarters, yes, but they are predictable quarters. I think people are starting to see the other side of the coin, especially when talking about the Israeli/Palestine conflict. Here's hoping.

I have a major problem with the christain right but in general, and especially in America they are the opposite of what i believe a christian should be.
I cannot be resolved with a religion , whos punishment for apostasy is death (someone correct me if i wrong but im sure im not).
Your ideas about combating radical islam are right , i think that extremism will spread more rapidly when the youth of the middle east ( especially in palestine ) can tangibly see the negative influence of outside powers .

deravarra

Sharkey 10 wrote: »

I have a major problem with the christain right but in general, and especially in America they are the opposite of what i believe a christian should be.
I cannot be resolved with a religion , whos punishment for apostasy is death (someone correct me if i wrong but im sure im not).
Your ideas about combating radical islam are right , i think that extremism will spread more rapidly when the youth of the middle east ( especially in palestine ) can tangibly see the negative influence of outside powers .

excellent reply!

I dont like the whole idea of death for apostates ... not 100% sure where this idea comes from nor on how much it is carried out ...

Sharkey 10

Johro wrote: »

For 'Jews', read the government of Israel. People who hate Jews won't be on these fora for long. They'll be banned, as they should be.

And so they should, but there is a major problem with people differentiating between antisemitism and anti Zionism.
Btw is fora really the pluralization of forum?

BlaasForRafa

deravarra wrote: »

the number of muslims you mentioned tho ... far less than what Im reading as the number of Jews who fought in the Wehrmacht ... some 150,000 according to Mark Rigg's book

And?

Not every person who fought in the Wehrmacht was a war criminal, most were people just trying to survive.

What if 150001 muslims fought for the Wehrmacht? Would that then make them somehow worse than the jews in your mind?

scientific1982

deravarra wrote: »

really? how come?

Its a totalitarian ideology that discourages free speech. It promotes the subjugation of women, the notion that muslims are superior to non-muslims and mandates violent punishment for breaking Islamic law. If thats not fascist I dont know what is.