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Web Design Courses- Dublin 2010?

condra

Hey folks.

I've been considering doing a Web Design course to bring my skills from "intermediate" to more advanced.

I already have HTML/Photoshop/Dreamweaver skills, but I would like to improve on my CSS, SEO, and indeed my design theory itself.

Has anyone done the Web Design course at Mad Art, Gardiner Street?
http://www.madartstudio.com/
(or does anyone know anything more about it?)
Apparently there is a new course starting in July.
21h ~ 7 weeks, 560 euro.

I've also been looking at the "Advanced Diploma in Web Design Course" from IBAT in Swords.
http://www.ibat.ie/index.php/courses/computing-and-it/ibat-advanced-web-design.html
It seems rather expensive for 1200 euro, though it looks pretty good.

Thanks for any pointers.

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Placebo

2nd one is more development than design.
you could potentially learn at a need to know basis,
i.e research when something is required and learn it on the go and get it done

condra

Cheers. If they were both starting in July, I would probably be more inclined towards the IBAT course, but I don't think I fancy waiting until October, unless I hear some very good things about IBAT

Has anyone here studied with MadArt or IBAT?

PCPhoto

would be very interested in the course (madart) ...but will be away for 3 weeks....how do you know theres gonna be a new course in July ..says nothing on website.

condra

I emailed Hubert and he told me a new course is starting July 5.
He seems like a very nice bloke actually.

red_ice

web design is down to personal taste. madart to me doesnt look anything special and being frank it seems like a waste of time.

Design regardless of where you see it has the same principals across all mediums, tv/web/print whatever. You can learn design in a much better environment than what madart have to offer.

if you want to bring your design skills from "intermediate to more advanced." do what most people who are gods in this area do. Spend hours working at it. Study other peoples work, see what they did, replicate it, change it, make it your own. Get a magazine, read interviews. Above all try come up with something else. Personally, i spend at least 30 minutes a day looking at deviant art downloading logo's and web interfaces that i like. Just so i can get a feel for a style/texture and can reference it.

going to a course isnt going to make you a good designer.

<edit>
If it was down to me, i would go for the ibat course, simply because

# Working with Jquery
# Working with AJAX using Jquery and JSON
# Working with CSS grids such as 960.gs
# Designing CSS-based menus

will help make a design really come to life on the web.
</edit>

condra

Red_Ice thanks for the reply.

I'm not sure why you are being so harsh on MadArt. I've read good things about the course here and on Creative Ireland.

At the same time, I have to agree the IBAT course looks much more comprehensive.

going to a course isnt going to make you a good designer.

While strictly speaking, that's true, I don't fully agree with the sentiment.

I think there is a lot to be gained from supplementing books and videos with a classroom environment, especially for motivation and inspiration.

Anyway, thanks again for your reply.

red_ice

condra wrote: »

Red_Ice thanks for the reply.

I'm not sure why you are being so harsh on MadArt. I've read good things about the course here and on Creative Ireland.

At the same time, I have to agree the IBAT course looks much more comprehensive.

While strictly speaking, that's true, I don't fully agree with the sentiment.

Sorry if i came across as short/rude condra. I have a thing about being blunt. Its honestly not my intention, i just call it how i see it.

I dont have anything against the madart thing, its the individual that produces the work and i feel that there could be a better place to develop your skills than what madart has to offer. Im sure its a great place to learn however I have limited knowlege on their course, but what i've seen from it hasnt been that impressive.

going to a course will not make you a good designer, and you're right, its not an entirely correct comment, but its a big factor of it!

condra wrote: »

I think there is a lot to be gained from supplementing books and videos with a classroom environment, especially for motivation and inspiration.

so true. i cant learn anything new without a solid push from an educational facility, i just cant for some reason. I know some people would buy into something as simple as the style of their website as a reason for going to them. I hope that stuff doesnt count as motivation or inspiration! For me, if i was going to do design, it would be NCAD.

The reason for that is as you mentioned above, motivation and inspiration.

The Mad Art course is pretty decent from the looks of things. It's not perfect but seems to be the most up to date in terms of techniques used. A lot of course are teaching techniques 5 or 6 years out of date. The IBAT one is saying all the right things, but I would still approach it with caution.

red_ice wrote: »

web design is down to personal taste.

This statement shows an incredible lack of understanding of web design.

Placebo

i think what people are trying to say it that they cant teach you nice aesthetics, its like art class, they might just point you to references then you have to do the art. So you might come out there with as much you will learn on smashingmagasine.com

you can learn all of this at home, if you dedicate yourself

i have a
BSc computer science software engineering [did small html- lol]
MSc in multimedia systems [did small html, more lols, some php, basics, anything about graphic design was pretty much bull****]

so i've learned everything myself. Im sure Bsc and Msc might look good on my cv but i cant say any future jobs will take those into account without looking at some sort of portfolio as well.

Axwell

The Madart one looks decent and an up to date. As P said a lot of courses are teaching very dated content and only touching on css etc. Not bad pricewise either and small class sizes is always a good thing.

Amusing though that they teach on page SEO but still have the permalinks on the site in an SEO unfriendly format

Placebo

Axwell wrote: »

The Madart one looks decent and an up to date. As P said a lot of courses are teaching very dated content and only touching on css etc. Not bad pricewise either and small class sizes is always a good thing.

Amusing though that they teach on page SEO but still have the permalinks on the site in an SEO unfriendly format

lol good catch

Placebo wrote: »

i think what people are trying to say it that they cant teach you nice aesthetics, its like art class, they might just point you to references then you have to do the art.

Design is not art. Good design is about visual problem solving. Of course you can teach good design and aesthetics to someone. There's always some people who are naturally good at design, but a huge portion of it can be taught, practised and developed.

The main reason that many people advocate self-teaching is not because being taught is bad, but because there's a complete dearth of good courses in Ireland.

Conor J

how does this course stack up in comparison to the Swords course?

http://www.dbs.ie/advanced-web-development/evening-diploma.htm

Has anyone done it previously? how do experienced web developers view it?

edit: ive just read another thread with some comments on this course, and it aint looking so great. so thats me sorted with my answers.
swords is looking sprightly tho

Pixelcraft

From reading it doesn't seem great, but if you're a complete beginner it may be a start. A 14 week or whatever diploma isn't going to cut it though, you're going to need to invest years in education (self or otherwise) to get to an employable standard. Do you need to keep it in dublin? The interactive design course in the University of Ulster is headed up by people that really know their stuff, ironically site is down right now so I can't drag up any info on it!

anbrutog

Pixelcraft wrote: »

From reading it doesn't seem great, but if you're a complete beginner it may be a start. A 14 week or whatever diploma isn't going to cut it though, you're going to need to invest years in education (self or otherwise) to get to an employable standard. Do you need to keep it in dublin? The interactive design course in the University of Ulster is headed up by people that really know their stuff, ironically site is down right now so I can't drag up any info on it!

As someone whos had the misfortune to do the course I can't disagree with this strongly enough. Unless the content has changed dramatically in the last few years I would stay as far away from this course as possible. It teaches bad design practice,badly ( css hardly mentioned , table based design etc.. ).Avoid at all costs. Its better in my opinion to know nothing than to learn something the wrong way.

Pixelcraft

Fair enough - I'm not vouching for it though, it's quite vague about what it covers, It may be a start if you're completely new to the web, I'm not sure any part time courses exist here that teach to a proper standard.

Conor J

Pixelcraft wrote: »

From reading it doesn't seem great, but if you're a complete beginner it may be a start. A 14 week or whatever diploma isn't going to cut it though, you're going to need to invest years in education (self or otherwise) to get to an employable standard. Do you need to keep it in dublin? The interactive design course in the University of Ulster is headed up by people that really know their stuff, ironically site is down right now so I can't drag up any info on it!

sound advice, ill have a look at that soon then so.

Im not a novice, but i do need to step up from the one module i learned in college a few years ago.. my level is that of being able to set up a few basic websites for small companies, im looking to expand this a hell of a lot.

anbrutog

Pixelcraft wrote: »

Fair enough - I'm not vouching for it though, it's quite vague about what it covers, It may be a start if you're completely new to the web, I'm not sure any part time courses exist here that teach to a proper standard.

Yeah unfortunately that appears to be the case alright, that there arent any courses out there. I think Lynda.com is the best and only route available.

condra

Hey guys.

Thanks again for all the replys and discussion.

I decided to go with IBAT in the end because:
Working with Jquery
Working with AJAX using Jquery and JSON
Working with CSS grids such as 960.gs
Designing CSS-based menus

Also, I went out to the open day and the facilities are fantastic. I've also had great correspondence with them.

In the meantime I am getting more in depth with CSS/Divs/Wordpress etc at home so I feel like I will be well prepared for the course.

As for the "design theory". I already have a basic grounding in design, but I really want to push my skills in terms of typography, layout, colour etc.
Over the coming weeks, I'll be ripping my way through this:
http://psd.tutsplus.com/articles/inspiration/teach-yourself-graphic-design-a-self-study-course-outline/

_____

p wrote: »

Design is not art. Good design is about visual problem solving. Of course you can teach good design and aesthetics to someone. There's always some people who are naturally good at design, but a huge portion of it can be taught, practised and developed.

The main reason that many people advocate self-teaching is not because being taught is bad, but because there's a complete dearth of good courses in Ireland.

I agree with everything you said there.

Still I think when people say "doing a web design course won't make you a good designer", they have a point. Most web design courses seem to focus much more on the technical side of things than give much guidance on design/aesthetics, unfortunately.

Zascar

I'm going to do this course in Graphic Design in spetember: http://www.scd.ie/Computer_Graphic_Design/Default.374.html

condra

Looks like it could be a great introduction to graphic design with Photoshop and Illustrator.

350 for 25 weeks is great value too.

Aidan05

We can find various web design courses offered these days, which train individuals on basics of web designing in an effortless and simple manner.

Axwell

Aidan05 wrote: »

We can find various web design courses offered these days, which train individuals on basics of web designing in an effortless and simple manner.

And this is helpful advice to the OP in what way exactly? :rolleyes:

Aidan05

Normally web design programs will be taught by the expert instructor with a passion for teaching. It includes steps like beginner, intermediate and advanced. You can easily qualify the course by concentrating on each individual steps and continue as long as you desire.

cormee

Aidan05 wrote: »

Normally web design programs will be taught by the expert instructor with a passion for teaching. It includes steps like beginner, intermediate and advanced. You can easily qualify the course by concentrating on each individual steps and continue as long as you desire.

Please subscribe me to your newsletter

ivanc

condra wrote: »

I decided to go with IBAT in the end

I know your post is two months old at this stage but just to say...

I've done two Web diplomas with IBAT and will also be on the Advanced course in October. It's not cheap but well worth the money. I barely knew HTML when I started but just nine months on - having done lots of homework - I'm well able to design and construct decent looking search engine friendly sites.

If you haven't already got a copy of DW The Missing Manual I'd suggest getting it before the course starts - it will fill in any blanks left by the coursework.

See you there on the 12th.

Zascar

Zascar wrote: »

I'm going to do this course in Graphic Design in spetember: http://www.scd.ie/Computer_Graphic_Design/Default.374.html

I start this tonight I'll let you know how it goes!

magunkey

Zascar wrote: »

I start this tonight I'll let you know how it goes!

So how did it go. What was class size like?

Zascar

Class size was fine, about 20 people - only 3/4 of the computers were being used. Teacher seems very cool. The PC's are pretty new and they have all the full suites of software, works fast which is nice. We started off VERY slow, talking about File>Open & CTRL+S - but I suppose you have to start somewhere. Last 30 mins spent on Layers, bringing new pictures in, and the Magic Erase Tool. The Class is wide and varied in why they are doing it and what they want to get out of it which is good, he said he's teach a lot of different people many different things depending on what they all want to learn. It's great that they are not just teaching generic stuff but everyone can get what they want out of it

iveski

Total waste of money, these guys just want your cash - seriously dont bother with this - you can get better courses on you tube !