Happyman42 wrote: » But they ignored evidence that he had a national ID and said instead that: 'this lack of US identification as the reason Al Suqami took his passport on his final flight, enabling it to be found.'
Happyman42 wrote: » Does your mind not ask.....What if Caprice C was lying or was simply wrong and he actually used his National ID? Would you, 'looking for the truth' at least investigate the newspapers findings and report? Can you see how it casts doubt on their finding in this instance? If I was investigating a crime of course I WOULD assume there was a conspiracy, that's my job ffs. Then the next step is to find out who was involved in that conspiracy. They simply didn't look at all the evidence.
Happyman42 wrote: » I Yes there is.
Happyman42 wrote: » How do you know it was the same passport?
Happyman42 wrote: » If it was just a passport wouldn't that strike you as odd?
Happyman42 wrote: » Speculation, No need for the NYPD to be involved, the officer was just doing his job.
Happyman42 wrote: » Why did he apply for an National ID, was it because his passport was compromised? He is reputed to be the leader of that cell, was he going to risk the operation with a dodgy passport that had failed to get him into Bahamas?
Happyman42 wrote: » Makes it's survival even more highly unlikely imo. Soaked in jet fuel??? so it managed to escape a hideous fireball soaked in incredibly combustible fuel and didn't light? Have you ever sprinkled ordinary petrol and set it alight?
alastair wrote: » we know he used his passport to check in at Logan.
Soveriegn wrote: » This video is such a load of bull. Just like with most other 9/11 bull, we are expected to not believe our own eyes. Here are just 2 of hundreds of examples where you can count along.
Soveriegn wrote: » Coz thermite could be the culprit for the molten steel found at the base of the towers weeks after 9/11. And it does kinda explode. Plus it was a military grade, advanced thermate, how would you really know what it does ?
Happyman42 wrote: » How? Far as I know we have one Ticket agent who said he used it. Transcripts of the interview please (to assess how rigourous it was) or a copy taken off the passport.
Happyman42 wrote: » Why would a man (who knew he was going to die) apply for another form of ID if he wasn't going to use it?
Happyman42 wrote: » Transcripts of the interviews with Caprice C? Photocopy taken at check -in?
meglome wrote: » I have lit petrol before but i wonder if you have. Petrol can be surprising difficult to light and the same goes for jet fuel. In the movies they throw a match onto it or shoot a bullet but in the real world nether of those things is likely to ignite petrol or Jet fuel. The blast wave is carrying the passport away from the flames anyway.
Divorce Referendum wrote: » Hmmm wonder where the aluminium and iron oxide came from:rolleyes:
alastair wrote: » Why would he have signed up for a months gym time, why would any of them have bothered with hold luggage? Maybe they couldn't be sure they would pull it off that day.
meglome wrote: » But there's no evidence that he had an ID card. He didn't use one and one was never found. Speculation isn't evidence.As I say, go back to the newspaper article. I have no way of checking their sources but the Commission had. My mind sometimes wonders why I'm not a king and living in a castle but that would also be irrelevant. No offence but you seem to have no idea how a court of law or commission works. They follow the evidence, they do not assume what happened, they do not chase things that cannot be shown to exist.First the INVESTIGATION (that word again) then the Commission assess & adjudicate the INVESTIGATIONS (jaysus there it is again) interogate the witnesses and issue their findings. Am I right? They do not assume witnesses are lying or 'in on it' when there is no evidence for such a thing. An INVESTIGATION assumes witnesses might not be telling the truth, ever hear of the word INTEROGATION? I would like to see how rigourous that was as I would in a 'normal' court of law. You on the other hand are assuming it was a conspiracy after the fact and wondering why the commission didn't, even though they never would.It was a 'conspiracy', fact. Who was involved was what the Commission was tasked to find out. What is the evidence he had an ID card? And even if we assume for second he did what evidence is there that he used it?Check the newspapers sources, or at the very least be critical that the Commission didn't. The witnesses and the evidence say that it was. Have you got other evidence?No. But as an INVESTIGATOR I would be curious as to why he would apply for an ID card, and why all the others who applied with him, used theirs that day but he decided to risk a dodgy passport. But it wasn't just a passport that was found. As I've already said a passport would be much much more likely to be handed to a cop than a seat cushion or life-vest. Someone might have picked them up but would have no reason to give them to a cop at that point. You or Alastair said that identification documents( drivers licences etc) where found, as important as a passport, no? You know what amuses me somewhat... the CT world thinks people won't talk to them because they have been 'gotten to'. But many people have been harassed and threatened by CT'ers so if I was that guy who picked up the passport i wouldn't dream of coming forward, it would be a nightmare.Maybe, but that hasn't stopped people coming forward from a sense of duty either. It was a legit passport, he just wasn't welcome in the Bahamas. Obviously you understand to apply for an ID he'd have to properly identify himself, thus using his passport.The report Alastair posted earlier, which I quoted, says that his passport was clearly stamped with the date of his visa expiration, the found passport had that date altered, a 'suspect indicator'(I think that was the term) according to the FBI. It isn't a big leap of sense to assume that ihe might have applied for different ID or aquired a second passport from dodgy Saudi Passport office (FBI's Assessment) The imperative for an investigator reaching that conclusion (remember it's his job to follow leads and his hunches) would be to INVESTIGATE.....no? And Mohamed Atta was supposed to be leader of the cell.Apologies, the same FBI document names him as the probable leader of the cell that took the plane, not the maiin group of 19 I have lit petrol before but i wonder if you have. Petrol can be surprising difficult to light and the same goes for jet fuel. In the movies they throw a match onto it or shoot a bullet but in the real world nether of those things is likely to ignite petrol or Jet fuel. The blast wave is carrying the passport away from the flames anyway. Now you are talking rubbish
demonspawn wrote: » You mean the two main components of Thermite? Gee, I wonder where it came from alright. :rolleyes:
demonspawn wrote: » Or maybe they were just regular passengers who can no longer defend their innocence.
Happyman42 wrote: » Have either you or Alastair ever come across the term 'INVESTIGATE' My point is that the commission chose to ignore or were never presented with or decided not to investigate certain things.
Happyman42 wrote: » Have either you or Alastair ever come across the term 'INVESTIGATE'
My point is that the commission chose to ignore or were never presented with or decided not to investigate certain things.
Therefore my assessment (and you of course are entitled to yours) is that their findings are not conclusive.
And the Passport issue is not the only one.
demonspawn wrote: » You mean the two main components of Thermite? Gee, I wonder where it came from alright. :rolleyes: Maybe they didn't bother using Thermate, maybe they just brought in bags of regular Themite for the whole year after Saddam declared that he was going to begin selling his oil for euros back in 2000.
alastair wrote: » Aviation fuel is less flammable than petrol - for what it's worth.
Happyman42 wrote: » And, your point is? The aviation fuel ignited why wouldn't the aviation fuel soaked passport? It's just an other improbable in an already fantastic survival. Was anything else ejected from the building that day on fire? The seats are clearly smouldering on the street in photos so Meglone's statement that it survived because it was exploded from the plane doesn't hold. It survived, miraculously.
"Orange County, CA., Sept. 11 - Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center... Her parents, Tom and Melanie Frost, have spent two years knowing they will never understand why. A few days before the first anniversary of our daughter's murder, we were notified that they had found a piece of her in the piles and piles of gritty rubble of the World Trade Center that had been hauled out to Staten Island. It was Lisa's way, we believe, of telling us she wasn't lost. In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. They have found no other personal effects".
On Oct. 12, it arrived inside a second envelope at Mrs. Snyder's modest white house on Main Street here, and the instant she took it out and saw it, she says, ''chills just went over me.'' It was singed and crumpled. A chunk was ripped out, giving the bottom of the envelope she had sent the look of a jagged skyline. Mrs. Snyder's lyrical script had blurred into the scorched paper. The stamp, depicting a World War II sailor embracing a woman welcoming him home, was intact. Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!'' Since then, Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.
Divorce Referendum wrote: » Oh jees. Cement which is used in concrete which im sure the WTC had plenty of uses iron oxide in its manufacturing process and also as a colourant or did you know that already:rolleyes:. As for elemental aluminium well try the whole facade of the building or would you dispute that. Hardly unusual to find that in the dust of a building that had been just pulverised.
Di0genes wrote: » I dont know do you know how to use the quote function. If they investigated every possible reason for every possible piece of evidence it would probably be in session for 300 years. The passport was recovered in the rubble. The Air Hostess recalls checking in the the hijacker with the passport when he boarded the plane. Trying to figure out alternative conclusions as to how the passport arrived in New York is a complete waste of time. The passport issue isn't an issue. Please find something reasonable to clutch at.
demonspawn wrote: » Well very convenient then that Thermite is composed of aluminum and iron oxide then isn't it? And what type of concrete uses iron oxide? Only decorative concrete that does not have any structural use whatsoever. What concrete in the WTC was like this? Any pics?
Materials that contain appropriate amounts of calcium compounds, silica, alumina and iron oxide are crushed and screened and placed in a rotating cement kiln. Ingredients used in this process are typically materials such as limestone, marl, shale, iron ore, clay, and fly ash
pablo_escobar wrote: » Bush and his cronies said that Bin Laden was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks yet the FBI have said publicly there's no evidence linking Bin Laden to the event.
alastair wrote: » Mr Bin Laden begs to differ - he says he/they did it.
Divorce Referendum wrote: » Am are you reading my posts or just blurting out random stuff.It is used in all structural concrete because it is contained in the cement. Portland cement which is an additive in concrete is made using iron oxide.
