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Is The U.S.A the most extreme Terrorist nation?

sxt

In your opinion?

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sxt

Clawdeeus wrote: »

Im starting to see where your coming from, Some people equate war with terrorism. Others do not.

Wha are you talking about? a makey up war is terrorism....the iragi people had nothing to do with the plane hijackers!:rolleyes:

af_thefragile

Clawdeeus wrote: »

The Geneva convention calls upon you to take reasonable steps to protect civilian lives, and not taget civilians intentionally. There has been no evidence that cilians have been targeted INTENTIONALLY by international forces (although, as always its the civilian population that suffers the most)

For people to be considered POWs some criteria have be met, none of which is by the insurgents (note i did not say terrorist). You cant not not play by the rules, get caught, then call upon the same rules for protection. Off the top of my head, wearing uniforms is a must.

America still can't just go bombing countries like that without any responsibility.
And most of the times its civilians who get killed in these attacks. Americans haven't produced any evidence that these drone attacks have resulted in any decrease in terrorist/insurgent activity. It only infuriates people more to take up arms against America. Anyone would. What would you do if you home got blown up by an american missile, killing your entire family with it...?

And what America is doing in Guantanamo can't be justified either. Most people there have no convictions, they have been given no trial and if you've seen any pics of the convicts in Guantanamo, you'll see how horribly they are tortured.

Clawdeeus

af_thefragile wrote: »

America still can't just go bombing countries like that without any responsibility.
And most of the times its civilians who get killed in these attacks. Americans haven't produced any evidence that these drone attacks have resulted in any decrease in terrorist/insurgent activity. It only infuriates people more to take up arms against America. Anyone would. What would you do if you home got blown up by an american missile, killing your entire family with it...?

And what America is doing in Guantanamo can't be justified either. Most people there have no convictions, they have been given no trial and if you've seen any pics of the convicts in Guantanamo, you'll see how horribly they are tortured.

Proof of that nature is almost impossible to find. What is clear is the vast majority of those killed are insurgents. According to Pakistani scources.

Sure it cant. The point im making is that your pointing to a site of where 150 people are held in awful conditions saying look, its the most extreme terrorrist nation on earth! This idea that America does bad, therefore its the worst dosent fly however.

There are about as many political prisoners in Cuba as there are in Gitmo. No body is accusing Cuba of being THE MOST EXTREME TERRORIST NATION.

Its the hyperbole I have an issue with. Just because it is the most publiscised nation does not mean it is the most active in this regard. People must think the world is an awfully cuddly place

Terry

sxt wrote: »

Was curious to see what other people thought were the bigggest terrorist nations , so did a google search for that and this is the first link that comes up

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/pakistan/TNJ22N2CMFFOJSN00

The most approved answer was this one

" not every muslim is a terrorist but every terrorist is a muslim...muslims appear to the world as violent,wicked,intolerant,back ward people. "

Scary...

Quite a lot of those posts were made by people in the U.K. and the U.S.
The one you quoted was by someone in Scotland. Quite obviously someone who bought into the "West is the best" ideal put forward by tabloids.

Norwayviking wrote: »

The Russians got their arses kicked by the Finns back in 1939,and you are saying they would have wiped the floor with the American and British troops.Dont think so

Jakkass wrote: »

I honestly don't know why people would have serious issues with the USA. Yes, it's a superpower. Nobody disputes this. Nobody disputes that on occasion the US military has made mistakes, nobody disputes that the USA as a state has made mistakes in the past.

However, when push comes to shove, the USA overall advocates democratic values, freedom and liberty as a model for other nations to follow. If the bully advocates these type of values, then I'm quite happy to back the bully for the most part. Of course the right to criticism remains open.

I'd rather the USA be the bully than Russia, China, or Iran for example.

Of course you support their ideals. They fit right in with your own.
A lot of the states in the U.S. are heavily influenced by Christian fundamentalism. Going by your posts here, I'd picture you as a Christian fundamentalist.
Quite a few have state sponsored death, which you defended in another thread a few days ago, when you alleged that Moses was right to kill the people with the golden calf, despite having just been told by God that you shouldn't kill anyone.
I believe you said that state sponsored death is not murder.

Now I'm not going to get into a heated debate on this, regardless of what your reply is. I'm just giving my opinion here.

You quite clearly stated that you are ok with state sponsored killing, because it's part of the 10 commandments, and therefore the word of God. However, you are pro-life when it comes to abortion.
I know you will reply by saying that an unborn child has not committed any sin (apart from original sin, but I'll let that one slip) and that a murderer has, so deserves to be put to death by the state.
Then there's the whole gay marraige thing.

There beliefs fit right in with those of the people who live in the bible belt of America, which is why I believe you support their ideals.

I'll give them credit for the ability to call their health minister a fat whore who knows nothing about how the average person lives, but that's about the extent of the freedom that they have over us.

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

WMD's were the main reason for Operation Iraqi Liberation, America lied about them, there was zero evidence. they falsified their reasons for starting that 'war', it is illegal.

you cant go and bomb another country just because you dont agree with how they run their own country. natives start their own revolution.

EG. Ireland, France, Cuba. If the people want change they will rise up and fight for it.

Great post, and something I've been saying for a long time.
Between them, the British, French, Spanish, Potuguese and the Dutch, they drew quite a lot of straight lines through North Africa and the Middle East without any consideration of the disparate tribes in the area after WWII.

This has led to continued trouble in that region ever since.

We're constantly told that the Muslims are a united front and they want ot take the world over and impose sharia law everywhere.
This is the view of a few Muslims. I still remember the doorman of the local Indian restaurant telling me that Islam would soon run the world. However, I'm quite aware that this is not the view of the majority of Muslims, and that just like Christianity, they have different sects with different interpretations of their holy books.

The internal problems in Iraq, pre-invasion and Kurds aside, were between Shia and Sunni Muslims. Different sects of the same religion. Just like NI.
Somalia is currently borked because two groups from a similar sect, one with more extremist views than the other, are disagreeing over some small things.

Were it not for the greed of the former colonial powers, and the power seeking neo-colonials, things may not be as bad as they are now.

Dubs wrote: »

To call any nation a terrorist nation is a bit extreme itself. Just because a nation has a notable terrorist organisation in it, doesn't make it a terrorist nation.

It's a very misleading, and I'm sure offensive, statement to make.

Firstly, offensive to who? America?
Is it ok for them to call North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan terrorist nations, but it's politically incorrect to point out the terrorist atrocities of the U.S.?

Clawdeeus wrote: »

well seeing as my views align with a lot of the Wests then no, they dont seem "extreme" . I wouldnt consider Ireland in a state of fear or submission despite very much being in the US sphere.

Just read today Iran considers itself to have built "the only fair and just society" They hardly consdier themselves extreme. I probablly would.

Our alignment with them is what scares me.
No, I do not wish to be associated with the other side.
I'd rather be, as our constitution states, neutral.

I'd also consider Iran to be extreme. They just don't have the nukes or the military capabilities of the U.S.

On an international stage, the US is the only one that can do this everywhere, so not exactlly apples and apples. Countries reach as far as they feel they can, it is not driven by ideology but need, want and most of all ability.

Sure the US uses its power to get what it deems necessary internationally. Isnt that what every body does?

That they use their power to achieve what they want is in and of itself terrorism.
They bully the world into submission, and if they don't get their way, then they invade and conquer.

Just a little note on Dr. David Kelly.
We know how the MP Stephen Milligan died, but the records of Dr. Kelly have been sealed for 70 years "to protect his family". A little U.S. influence there.

Terry

LOL @ Insurgents.

sock puppet

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

the most extreme 'terror act' ever commited on a nation in modern times?

9-11?
..8-6?(Hiroshima and Nagaski nuked)

The Hiroshima and Nagaskai bombings forced the Japanese into surrender and saved the rest of the Japanese people from the horrors of an invasion.

philologos

Terry wrote: »

Of course you support their ideals. They fit right in with your own.
A lot of the states in the U.S. are heavily influenced by Christian fundamentalism. Going by your posts here, I'd picture you as a Christian fundamentalist.
Quite a few have state sponsored death, which you defended in another thread a few days ago, when you alleged that Moses was right to kill the people with the golden calf, despite having just been told by God that you shouldn't kill anyone.
I believe you said that state sponsored death is not murder.

Now I'm not going to get into a heated debate on this, regardless of what your reply is. I'm just giving my opinion here.

You quite clearly stated that you are ok with state sponsored killing, because it's part of the 10 commandments, and therefore the word of God. However, you are pro-life when it comes to abortion.
I know you will reply by saying that an unborn child has not committed any sin (apart from original sin, but I'll let that one slip) and that a murderer has, so deserves to be put to death by the state.
Then there's the whole gay marraige thing.

There beliefs fit right in with those of the people who live in the bible belt of America, which is why I believe you support their ideals.

1. You are free to refer to me in whatever way you like.
2. The USA is not a fundamentalist Christian state by Constitution. It is a society that was built with the intention of pluralism. This cannot be said of other States that have been described on this thread such as Saudi Arabia, or Iran for example.
3. I believe there is a difference between a death penalty and a murder.
4. Personally, from a perspective of law. I think that we shouldn't put people to death for crimes. I believe that it is not immoral to do so, but that we shouldn't do it because we should encourage people to reform their lives, just as we are all given the opportunity to reform our lives. This view of the death penalty actually arises from my Christian beliefs. So I'm anti-imposition of death penalty in our legal context.
5. As for being pro-life in respect to abortion that's true.
6. You've clearly not read any of my previous posts on original sin.
7. I oppose same-sex marriage? So? - This arises out of a belief that children are better off with a mother and a father. If I were seeking to impose a Judeo-Christian view of relationships on the State it would go much further than opposing same-sex marriage.
8. Christian belief doesn't encourage imposing beliefs on the State. The New Testament leads to the belief that the church is a separate entity from the State rather than that the church is the State. I agree with this principle. I would much rather encourage society from within than a top-down imposition of beliefs.

Deal with this as you will I look forward to your response.

AckwelFoley

Terrorists.. yea my bollocks

Lefties make me LOL so much

Norwayviking

Nodin wrote: »

You may have missed the military escapade termed World War II which happened between the Winter war and 1945. Things changed somewhat.

Yes i am very well aware of it thank you.
Since my grandfather was Finnish and was fighting in both wars i know that.
And also since Norway was invaded for 5 years by the Germans,i think i should know something about it.

Norwayviking

sxt wrote: »

I don't think the Russian army of 1939 is comparable to the Russian army of 1945, which would have been significantly better organised/ commanded, had a massively enhanced production line of weapons /tanks/planes etc, hundreds of thousands more troops, and were battle hardened and high on morale.

Offcourse the Russian army wasnt the same as in 1939,they had to build up their army to be able to fight the Germans,but the point is that they would think twice about invading Finland again.Their morale was a bit low after that blow to Stalin.
And to say they would have wiped the floor with the American and British troops,not a chance.

Misanthrope

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to say they are agressive about their sense of patriotism and national security.

They don't tend to get stuck in unless 1 of the following occurs;

1) Threat of the spread of comuinism.
2) A direct attack has been made on them.

Other then point 1, they have never instigated wars with other countries. I wouldnt refer to them as warlike, but do agree that they are agressive.

Firstly the US flies it's war flag at all times.Why don't they fly tnheir peacetime flag?Maybe this explains it?

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1798-1800[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Franco-American Naval War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. France[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1801-1805; 1815[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Barbary Wars[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Morocco, Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1812-1815[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]War of 1812[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Great Britain[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1813-1814[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Creek War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Creek Indians[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1836[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]War of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Texas Independence[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Texas vs. Mexico[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1846-1848[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Mexican-American War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Mexico[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1861-1865[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]U.S. Civil War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Union vs. Confederacy[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1898[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Spanish-American War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Spain[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1914-1918[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]World War I[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Triple Alliance: Germany, Italy, and Austria-Hungary vs. Triple Entente: Britain, France, and Russia. The United States joined on the side of the Triple Entente in 1917.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1939-1945[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]World War II[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Axis Powers: Germany, Italy, Japan vs. Major Allied Powers: United States, Great Britain, France, and Russia[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1950-1953[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Korean War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States (as part of the United Nations) and South Korea vs. North Korea and Communist China[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1960-1975[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Vietnam War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States and South Vietnam vs. North Vietnam[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1961[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Bay of Pigs Invasion[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Cuba[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1983[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Grenada[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States Intervention[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1989[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]US Invasion of Panama
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Panama[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1990-1991[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Persian Gulf War
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States and Coalition Forces vs. Iraq[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1995-1996[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States as part of NATO acted peacekeepers in former Yugoslavia[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]2001[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Invasion of Afghanistan
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States and Coalition Forces vs. the Taliban regime in Afghanistan to fight terrorism.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]2003[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Invasion of Iraq
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States and Coalition Forces vs. Iraq[/FONT]
The thread of spreading communism is long since passed and has been greatly exaggerated in the past.eg Sen. Joseph MacCarthy

Concerning direct attacks as provocation to war,nearly every war the US has been in was waged off the back of a false flag operation or a lame excuse.

Clawdeeus

Misanthrope wrote: »

Firstly the US flies it's war flag at all times.Why don't they fly tnheir peacetime flag?Maybe this explains it?

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1798-1800[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Franco-American Naval War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. France[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1801-1805; 1815[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Barbary Wars[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Morocco, Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1812-1815[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]War of 1812[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Great Britain[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1813-1814[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Creek War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Creek Indians[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1836[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]War of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Texas Independence[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Texas vs. Mexico[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1846-1848[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Mexican-American War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Mexico[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1861-1865[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]U.S. Civil War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Union vs. Confederacy[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1898[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Spanish-American War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Spain[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1914-1918[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]World War I[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Triple Alliance: Germany, Italy, and Austria-Hungary vs. Triple Entente: Britain, France, and Russia. The United States joined on the side of the Triple Entente in 1917.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1939-1945[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]World War II[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Axis Powers: Germany, Italy, Japan vs. Major Allied Powers: United States, Great Britain, France, and Russia[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1950-1953[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Korean War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States (as part of the United Nations) and South Korea vs. North Korea and Communist China[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1960-1975[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Vietnam War[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States and South Vietnam vs. North Vietnam[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1961[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Bay of Pigs Invasion[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Cuba[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1983[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Grenada[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States Intervention[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1989[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]US Invasion of Panama
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States vs. Panama[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1990-1991[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Persian Gulf War
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States and Coalition Forces vs. Iraq[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]1995-1996[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States as part of NATO acted peacekeepers in former Yugoslavia[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]2001[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Invasion of Afghanistan
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States and Coalition Forces vs. the Taliban regime in Afghanistan to fight terrorism.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]2003[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]Invasion of Iraq
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica]United States and Coalition Forces vs. Iraq[/FONT]
The thread of spreading communism is long since passed and has been greatly exaggerated in the past.eg Sen. Joseph MacCarthy

Concerning direct attacks as provocation to war,nearly every war the US has been in was waged off the back of a false flag operation or a lame excuse.

Most have been caused by a false flag? Im going to file you under Conspiracy theorist.

Misanthrope

Clawdeeus wrote: »

Most have been caused by a false flag? Im going to file you under Conspiracy theorist.

Gulf of Tonkin?

USS Maine?

WMDs was the lamest excuse ever for war in Iraq

"Conspiracy Theorist" is the one-size-fits all slanderous catchcry of those who lack the balls/brains to question anything.Those who crib about the government and then vote them back in.It is the first pejorative out of the mouths of those who have nothing to say,intended to draw ridicule to the person asking the awkward question.

So go ahead and file me away in your little filing cabinet under your hackneyed,borrowed entirely unoriginal heading of "Conspiracy Theorist"
There's obviously not much more for us to discuss as is evident from your brilliant riposte.

I'm going to file you under Ostrich(head in sand variety).

Clawdeeus

Misanthrope wrote: »

Gulf of Tonkin?

USS Maine?

WMDs was the lamest excuse ever for war in Iraq

"Conspiracy Theorist" is the one-size-fits all slanderous catchcry of those who lack the balls/brains to question anything.Those who crib about the government and then vote them back in.It is the first pejorative out of the mouths of those who have nothing to say,intended to draw ridicule to the person asking the awkward question.

So go ahead and file me away in your little filing cabinet under your hackneyed,borrowed entirely unoriginal heading of "Conspiracy Theorist"
There's obviously not much more for us to discuss as is evident from your brilliant riposte.

I'm going to file you under Ostrich(head in sand variety).

USS Maine IS a conspiracy theory. WMDs is not a false flag. Im a member of the skeptical society actually, we question most things including ludicrous conspiracy theories. Its just most dont stand up to any amount of critical thinking.

So we have one possible flase flag? (In a war that was already well underway.)

af_thefragile

You can also mention the countless militarty coups America had been involved in. Whenever any leader seems to have gone against American interests, America has made every attempt to overthrow him and replace with an American puppet.

I don't have time to go into details but there are many in south an central America, Indonesia, Iran, Pakistan and Iraq where USA has been involved in.

America might not be "extreme terrorist" but it is the biggest and most powerful bully/mob state in the world. Who has constantly been at war since it's creation. It's attitude has always been "do as we tell you or be prepared to get bombed into submission". We don't care because we're in the west and were allies. But the rest of the world does see America as a big threat. A bigger threat than al-Qaeda or any other "terrorist" group.

Misanthrope

USS Maine IS a conspiracy theory.

Okay.That explains that then.

WMDs is not a false flag.

I never said it was.It was a false reason though.

Im a member of the skeptical society actually, we question most things including ludicrous conspiracy theories. Its just most dont stand up to any amount of critical thinking.

How exclusive!Tell me, have you cast your critical eye upon things like the 911 Commission Report at all?Or does the skeptical society specialise only in criticising fellow sceptics these days?

So we have one possible flase flag? (In a war that was already well underway.)

Robert Mac Namara claimed it never happened.(Fog of War)

Clawdeeus

Misanthrope wrote: »

Okay.That explains that then.

I never said it was.It was a false reason though.

How exclusive!Tell me, have you cast your critical eye upon things like the 911 Commission Report at all?Or does the skeptical society specialise only in criticising fellow sceptics these days?

Robert Mac Namara claimed it never happened.(Fog of War)

I knew 9 11 would come up.

Whilst for me it did not dig near deep enough into the failings of the intelligence community leading up to the attacks, it certainly did ascertain the real causes and perpetrators of the attack. If thats what your asking.

I said I agreed that was a false falg (more it was a deliberatly misrepresentative report) I was calling into question the effect it had on the actual buildup in the conflict, or the reasons for the war itself.

me-skywalker

USA USA USA!!!

So who would you rather the Russians after the Berlin War or the Americans? I like vodka but ild rather my bourbon thank you very much!!

Manic Moran

And what America is doing in Guantanamo can't be justified either. Most people there have no convictions, they have been given no trial

Even if you were to consider them lawful combatants (Which most are not), how long is a regular POW kept? POWs don't get trials, they basically get locked up until they escape, they die, the war ends and they are released, or an exchange is made.

and if you've seen any pics of the convicts in Guantanamo, you'll see how horribly they are tortured.

How horribly are they tortured? I'm curious what pictures you've seen that I haven't.

Firstly the US flies it's war flag at all times.

Erm... The only current US flag I'm aware of which counts as a 'war flag' is the US Navy Jack or battle ensign. US Warships started flying it in 2002 and it will remain the jack until the War on Terror ends (which in practice I take to mean when major operations cease in Afghanistan, assuming nothing else crops up).

NTM

Terry

Jakkass wrote: »

1. You are free to refer to me in whatever way you like.
2. The USA is not a fundamentalist Christian state by Constitution. It is a society that was built with the intention of pluralism. This cannot be said of other States that have been described on this thread such as Saudi Arabia, or Iran for example.
3. I believe there is a difference between a death penalty and a murder.
4. Personally, from a perspective of law. I think that we shouldn't put people to death for crimes. I believe that it is not immoral to do so, but that we shouldn't do it because we should encourage people to reform their lives, just as we are all given the opportunity to reform our lives. This view of the death penalty actually arises from my Christian beliefs. So I'm anti-imposition of death penalty in our legal context.
5. As for being pro-life in respect to abortion that's true.
6. You've clearly not read any of my previous posts on original sin.
7. I oppose same-sex marriage? So? - This arises out of a belief that children are better off with a mother and a father. If I were seeking to impose a Judeo-Christian view of relationships on the State it would go much further than opposing same-sex marriage.
8. Christian belief doesn't encourage imposing beliefs on the State. The New Testament leads to the belief that the church is a separate entity from the State rather than that the church is the State. I agree with this principle. I would much rather encourage society from within than a top-down imposition of beliefs.

Deal with this as you will I look forward to your response.

Terry wrote: »

Now I'm not going to get into a heated debate on this, regardless of what your reply is. I'm just giving my opinion here.

Manic Moran wrote: »

Even if you were to consider them lawful combatants (Which most are not), how long is a regular POW kept? POWs don't get trials, they basically get locked up until they escape, they die, the war ends and they are released, or an exchange is made.

Indeed. Quite a lot are innocent people plucked from their homes in foreign countries.

philologos

If you're going to post it Terry, there's going to be a response. That simple.

BluePlanet

Should this poll be taken as a barometer of irish opinion regarding America, in a country that is particularly american-friendly; the results show that America has a lot of work to do.

America has earned her reputation: The Most Extreme Terrorist Nation.
She'll have to start eating some serious amount of humble pie to change that.

bigneacy

I for one would like to welcome our new yankee overlords

Seriously though, (and you can say what you like about me for this)

I would much rather see USA as the most powerful nation in the world, and police the rest of the world, even though sometimes we may not see it as fair the reason they are doing it is to preserve freedom. Thats built into their constitution, and I believe that is their motivation for acting as the world's police.

Realistically without them to bully other smaller nations (who are potentially very very dangerous to us otherwise), I do not believe we would have the freedoms or comforts we have, we would be constantly looking over our shoulders or even fighting a war with one of the extreme middle eastern nations.

Even though I may not agree with their tactics or policys sometimes I think they are keeping the wolf from the door of the western world and I would rather them be the most powerful superpower than say Iran or Pakistan.

This is my opinion on USA as a nation. I do not believe religion should come into foreign policy, domestic policy or anything else. Unfortunatley it does and I firmly believe that if anything, religion will ultimately be the downfall of the human race.

sxt

BluePlanet wrote: »

Should this poll be taken as a barometer of irish opinion regarding America, in a country that is particularly american-friendly; the results show that America has a lot of work to do.

America has earned her reputation: The Most Extreme Terrorist Nation.
She'll have to start eating some serious amount of humble pie to change that.

America is the most powerful nation in the world ,it does not matter what anyone else thinks...They will do as they please...

Jeboa Safari

BluePlanet wrote: »

Should this poll be taken as a barometer of irish opinion regarding America, in a country that is particularly american-friendly; the results show that America has a lot of work to do.

America has earned her reputation: The Most Extreme Terrorist Nation.
She'll have to start eating some serious amount of humble pie to change that.

This country isn't 'particularly american-friendly', especially with the left. It's no where near the most extreme terrorist nations. These leftie liberal types sicken me preaching from their high horse, the same type would have sat back and let Hitler or Stalin conquer the world

sxt

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

This country isn't 'particularly american-friendly', especially with the left. It's no where near the most extreme terrorist nations. These leftie liberal types sicken me preaching from their high horse, the same type would have sat back and let Hitler or Stalin conquer the world

If The U.S.A is not the most extreme terrorist nation, then maybe you can name an nation that is comparable and we can provide evidence...

Riamfada

Thats the closest poll in the history of boards!

sxt

bigneacy wrote: »

I for one would like to welcome our new yankee overlords

Seriously though, (and you can say what you like about me for this)

I would much rather see USA as the most powerful nation in the world, and police the rest of the world, even though sometimes we may not see it as fair the reason they are doing it is to preserve freedom. Thats built into their constitution, and I believe that is their motivation for acting as the world's police.

Realistically without them to bully other smaller nations (who are potentially very very dangerous to us otherwise), I do not believe we would have the freedoms or comforts we have, we would be constantly looking over our shoulders or even fighting a war with one of the extreme middle eastern nations.

Even though I may not agree with their tactics or policys sometimes I think they are keeping the wolf from the door of the western world and I would rather them be the most powerful superpower than say Iran or Pakistan.

This is my opinion on USA as a nation. I do not believe religion should come into foreign policy, domestic policy or anything else. Unfortunatley it does and I firmly believe that if anything, religion will ultimately be the downfall of the human race.

It has nothing to do with religion , :eek:..... not about 9/11, not about ridding the world of "al qaedai". A threat that is nonsense compared to what u.s.a will make you believe...... Iraq is a oil rich country ,America is not ......

bigneacy

sxt wrote: »

It has nothing to do with religion , :eek:..... not about 9/11, not about ridding the world of "al qaedai". A threat that is nonsense compared to what u.s.a will make you believe...... Iraq is a oil rich country ,America is not ......

America is not an oil rich country? :eek:

America is one of the top oil rich countries in the world. It is close allies with the top two oil rich countries in the world - Canada & Saudi Arabia.
America is the worlds third biggest oil producer, just behind Saudi Arabia and Russia (both USA Allies). Wars are governed by politics, and at the moment in America, politics are influenced immensely by religion, both foreign and domestic.

Hostile Middle East nations control less than 40% of the worlds Oil, and America's buying power far outweighs any political hard feelings those countries may have towards the US. America can buy oil until it runs out, and no matter what your buying or who's buying it, there will always be someone willing to sell it.

And, yes, the threat was nonsense until they mass murdered people in New York and London a few years back (and whatever about coaltion forces 'mass murdering' people in Afghanistan or Iraq, they never intentionally targeted innocent civilians). I wonder how this poll would look if the attacks had of taken place here in Ireland?

One things for sure, Ireland's Liberal Leftie population would take a serious knock.

Would you rather nothing was done after those atrocities? That the countries harboring these extreme organisations just be allowed to do what they like? Imagine how brazen they would be without the threat of political intervention from USA, UK and the UN?

Grimes wrote: »

Thats the closest poll in the history of boards!

At the moment while i'm writing this its exactly 50-50! :eek:

jackiebaron

Rothmans wrote: »

Typical Irish replies tbh.In AH We're always giving out about how oppresive muslim countries are, how much of a disgrace they are, something should be done blah blah blah etc. And when a country steps in to try sort things out(America), all we do is complain about that country. I hate to break it to ye all, but we , in Ireland , live under an umbrella of American protection. Many of us still don't get that.

Protection from whom, pray tell? The "Reds under the bed"?, "Swine flu"?, "The Nazis"?, "The Viet Cong"? Who? Who is a threat to Ireland that we need this mythical protection you yammer on about?