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A Good Muslim/Catholic marriage

Eldel

This isn't a complaint! I am married to a wonderful man who is a Muslim. I'm the Catholic one! Anyway, when I was getting married I found that there was little to no information for the Irish woman in this situation. We were married in a registry office in Dublin. Both of our families attended and we found a hotel in Carlow that did halal and Irish menu. Everyone was happy. All my family love him and are very proud that he is a hard worker and looks out for me. We have no children yet but I think he'll will take over the religious side of their upbringing. No, I don't wear a veil, he doesn't want me to convert, his family are very happy with me. If anyone is in this situation, and, like me, didn't know where to turn to, I hope this will help. You're not the only one!

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tatli_lokma

Eldel wrote: »

This isn't a complaint! I am married to a wonderful man who is a Muslim. I'm the Catholic one! Anyway, when I was getting married I found that there was little to no information for the Irish woman in this situation. We were married in a registry office in Dublin. Both of our families attended and we found a hotel in Carlow that did halal and Irish menu. Everyone was happy. All my family love him and are very proud that he is a hard worker and looks out for me. We have no children yet but I think he'll will take over the religious side of their upbringing. No, I don't wear a veil, he doesn't want me to convert, his family are very happy with me. If anyone is in this situation, and, like me, didn't know where to turn to, I hope this will help. You're not the only one!

I'm not sure I understand the point of your post??

You are married to a Muslim, had a nice wedding, your family are happy for you, there is no pressure on you to convert etc etc......
so why would you say if you are in 'my situation and don't know where to turn?'

I am married to a Muslim, I was raised catholic (although not practicing) and it is not an issue for me at all. So I am just wondering what the intention of your post is?
don't get me wrong, I'm not havig a go - I am delighted for you that you have found a loving partner and have a mutually respectful marriage, and it is of course important for people to know that not all muslims are fanatics, or make their women wear a burka or treat them as inferiors...but I am just curious what the point of your post is?

Eldel

True, that statement does sound vague. I just felt that when I wanted information about this kind of marriage, there was nothing out there. That's the holy all of it. In case there's some bewildered girl out there looking for a bit of advice/comfort. 'My situation' is referring to the situation I was in before I got married. I looked for help on this very board and no one answered me at that time. And the result is that I've found another Catholic married to a Muslim! If I ever have a question, I may have to ask your advice. Thanks for answering!

tatli_lokma

aaaahhhhh - now I'm with you! I thought that might be what you were getting at, but not sure from the post!

To be honest I had no difficulties really with the whole issue of the wedding as a civil ceremony was what we both wanted (he is from a very secular country so a 'muslim' ceremony would not have been usual for him anyway). To date there have been no issues for us with our cultural differences - from my experience I have found that muslim, christian, jew....basically different books, same story!
some people do ask silly questions or look at you a bit strange, and then say stupid things like 'oh they all change once they marry you' :rolleyes: and other equally ludicrous statements, but generally it has not been an issue at all.

It is good to let people know that really for the majority of us it is just business as usual the same as for any couple and there is nothing to be afraid of - they don't even have horns or hoven feet or anything!:D

And you are definitely not alone in this - there are a lot of us out there!

Southsider1

I have very good friends, a couple, he Arab Muslim and she Irish Catholic. They live in Saudi for a several years now and are very happy together. Never had any issues and have a lovely little boy who is being brough up Muslim but that he can make his own choice when he's old enough.

Like every race and religion there'll always be few bad eggs that give a bad name to others.

Jana3124

I can appreciate when you are coming from but to be true... you both say you "don`t practice", which to me sounds like "well I don`t really care" or something similar. I am a Christian and I do practice and now we are having children and although we are both very opened minded we both want the best for our children... and that is the moment when you realize how deep does religion and the protective attitude towards your children run in you... and truly that is the part that can bring plenty of pain. For the start - baptism. But of course if you do not practice, you do not care about that. I feel like I have to bring up my children as Christians and my husband feels he must bring them up as Muslims. So we both do what we can always explaining the position of the other side too. When they are in the age to decide for themselves, they will anyway.

Eldel

Hi,
The beauty of this site is that we can all find each other. My initial hope was to reach out to other women in a similar situation and what I had hoped by starting this thread is that we all can compare and support each other. Now there are a few different experiences between us. And as the latest poster, there is now someone with another experience to talk to. As an aside, we don't have children and I completely agree that once they come along that our feelings would run deep.

tatli_lokma

Jana3124 wrote: »

I can appreciate when you are coming from but to be true... you both say you "don`t practice", which to me sounds like "well I don`t really care" or something similar. I am a Christian and I do practice and now we are having children and although we are both very opened minded we both want the best for our children... and that is the moment when you realize how deep does religion and the protective attitude towards your children run in you... and truly that is the part that can bring plenty of pain. For the start - baptism. But of course if you do not practice, you do not care about that. I feel like I have to bring up my children as Christians and my husband feels he must bring them up as Muslims. So we both do what we can always explaining the position of the other side too. When they are in the age to decide for themselves, they will anyway.

I'm not sure if this comment is specifically directed at one of us in particular, but for me, let me just point out, not being a practicing Catholic does NOT by any means translate as 'I don't care' and I find your comment insulting.

I am not a practicing catholic for personal reasons such as a personal distrust and disillusionment with the way the church is run. That does not mean I am not a christian, nor does it mean I don't care. I do care deeply about my spritual faith, but that is personal to me, and just because I do not attend a catholic church or follow the catholic rituals does not mean I am uncaring.

Baptism is not an issue for me, not because I don't care, or would not care about the spiritual and moral guidance of my future children, but because I do not want them baptised into the institution of the catholic church. This does not mean that they will not know about Christian faith, or beliefs or morals.

Having said that, if my catholic faith was so important to me that I felt the need to baptise my children into that faith, then I would not have married my husband. We enquired about a blessing for our wedding and were told we could not do this, that we must have a full marriage and have him accept a sacriment he does not understand or believe! :eek: Personally I would rather be true to my faith than have it belittled by having my husband stand in a church and basically lie. I think that undermines the whole concept of a catholic marriage. So a church wedding was out, and by being married civilly then as far as the CC are concerned we are not married in the eyes of god - so if my catholicism were to be so important to me, then marrying a muslim means either having him lie in church or having a marriage not acknowledged in the eyes of god.

I don't believe that there will be any pain or problems when children come, mainly because as I have explained, fundamentally, we believe the same things - he learned them in a mosque from an Immam, I learned them in school (although if I'm honest rarely in church). But mainly we both learned our values and our morals from our parents. And it might surprise you to know that on so so many things we were taught the same and believe the same. We discuss issues at length, and before marriage every aspect of what we would do, how we want our children to be raised was discussed many times. If we seriously disagreed on those issues, then to be frank we would not have married.

Our children will learn how to be good people, not how to be "good christians" or "good muslims", because in our shared opinion ultimately being a good person with strong values is more important than being a good catholic or good muslim. We have both seen "good" members of our respective religions who to be honest are an embarrassment to the faith and who we do not want to be associated with.

As I said, for us, it was a different book we read from, but ultimately we learned the same values and lessons. I know many "christians" who baptise their children, dress them up for communion and confirmation and all it is about is an excuse for a p!ss up and to get money. For me it would cause a lot more discord and pain for me to marry someone like that, with no faith or who misses the whole point of practicing a religion.

Jana3124

Cincikchick, I really am sorry!!! By no means I meant to insult you!!! I also said that it sounds to me like "I don`t care" I did not say that that`s the way you are!!! I probably should not said that. And I did not refer to your spiritual life at all!!!! I have absolutely no right to make such judgments. But if what I wrote touched you I must offer my sincere apology!!! I am really sorry.
Perhaps by your reflections you are more true to Christianity and therefore really practice far more than some of those who just do things out of habit.
I myself have many issues with practicing (I mean the way it should be officially) so have no right at all to judge anyone.
About the church I don`t share your opinion. One has to define first what really church is. And what church is not. I do not care if one is Roman Catholic or Protestant... I sincerely do believe that we all make one Church - after all the translation of catholic means - general

I never had any illusions about the institutional church as it is run by people it must have human faults (No excuse to any abuse of course! But on the other hand there are many priests who were and still are doing tremendous work and truly spread the light of God) what is important for me is the goal and why the church is really here and what for. I do believe that we are people of God "on the way"... and that is whay Church is important to me. But than again did Christ not come to save all human kind? And may after some theological reflection be Muslims as people of the same God... seen as basically members of the universal church? I can`t answer that but I am having my faith that God is Love and loving and inclusive rather than exclusive. (If we even can say anything about God) (Etymologically the word church comes from the Greek Kyriake (see etymonline.com) - Lord`s house. And we all believe in one God.
Considering the marriage... how would it be possible that once you both believe in God you would not be getting married in the eyes of God? Even in the register office... That is a matter of a personal attitude, isn`t it? I understand your opinion. And yes... I also learned that Christianity and Islam share the same basic values! In so many things we are the same. The only basic difference I see is that Muslims don`t believe that Christ is the Son of God and that he died on the cross for us and is risen and that is theologically quite a fundamental difference ... but they do believe that Christ will come again... And here we must leave space to Gods` Love and Mercy.

Again, my apologies if I hurt you. All the best!

Jana3124

Hello Eldel, I must also say that as much as it could be sometimes struggle it also is a delight to bring up children in mixed family. Because you must find a way how to respect and lovingly include the other side. That is what politics or religious leaders don`t really have to do. But for us people who share daily life it is and attitude we must adapt if we want to live in peace and I believe that it also is the only way we should live in society:)
Salam

Eldel

Jana3124 wrote: »

Hello Eldel, I must also say that as much as it could be sometimes struggle it also is a delight to bring up children in mixed family. Because you must find a way how to respect and lovingly include the other side. That is what politics or religious leaders don`t really have to do. But for us people who share daily life it is and attitude we must adapt if we want to live in peace and I believe that it also is the only way we should live in society:)
Salam

That's lovely to hear. The lesson for all of us is that in spite of our differences, we will take the best of both and I imagine that at least our child would have a broader view of the world. We have an important role as parents to play for our children; as examples of mutual respect and love. Y'know when I think about my parents, the communions etc, were not the formative experiences of my life; it was their behaviour and morals that influenced me.

Eldel

Cincikchick wrote: »

I'm not sure if this comment is specifically directed at one of us in particular, but for me, let me just point out, not being a practicing Catholic does NOT by any means translate as 'I don't care' and I find your comment insulting.

I am not a practicing catholic for personal reasons such as a personal distrust and disillusionment with the way the church is run. That does not mean I am not a christian, nor does it mean I don't care. I do care deeply about my spritual faith, but that is personal to me, and just because I do not attend a catholic church or follow the catholic rituals does not mean I am uncaring.

Baptism is not an issue for me, not because I don't care, or would not care about the spiritual and moral guidance of my future children, but because I do not want them baptised into the institution of the catholic church. This does not mean that they will not know about Christian faith, or beliefs or morals.

Having said that, if my catholic faith was so important to me that I felt the need to baptise my children into that faith, then I would not have married my husband. We enquired about a blessing for our wedding and were told we could not do this, that we must have a full marriage and have him accept a sacriment he does not understand or believe! :eek: Personally I would rather be true to my faith than have it belittled by having my husband stand in a church and basically lie. I think that undermines the whole concept of a catholic marriage. So a church wedding was out, and by being married civilly then as far as the CC are concerned we are not married in the eyes of god - so if my catholicism were to be so important to me, then marrying a muslim means either having him lie in church or having a marriage not acknowledged in the eyes of god.

I don't believe that there will be any pain or problems when children come, mainly because as I have explained, fundamentally, we believe the same things - he learned them in a mosque from an Immam, I learned them in school (although if I'm honest rarely in church). But mainly we both learned our values and our morals from our parents. And it might surprise you to know that on so so many things we were taught the same and believe the same. We discuss issues at length, and before marriage every aspect of what we would do, how we want our children to be raised was discussed many times. If we seriously disagreed on those issues, then to be frank we would not have married.

Our children will learn how to be good people, not how to be "good christians" or "good muslims", because in our shared opinion ultimately being a good person with strong values is more important than being a good catholic or good muslim. We have both seen "good" members of our respective religions who to be honest are an embarrassment to the faith and who we do not want to be associated with.

As I said, for us, it was a different book we read from, but ultimately we learned the same values and lessons. I know many "christians" who baptise their children, dress them up for communion and confirmation and all it is about is an excuse for a p!ss up and to get money. For me it would cause a lot more discord and pain for me to marry someone like that, with no faith or who misses the whole point of practicing a religion.

''Our children will learn how to be good people, not how to be "good christians" or "good muslims", because in our shared opinion ultimately being a good person with strong values is more important than being a good catholic or good muslim''. Exactly!
As I write this, I'm preparing the Ramadan dinner, I'd say we're all doing that at the moment!

tatli_lokma

Jana3124 wrote: »

Cincikchick, I really am sorry!!! By no means I meant to insult you!!! I also said that it sounds to me like "I don`t care" I did not say that that`s the way you are!!!
.....

Again, my apologies if I hurt you. All the best!

apology accepted! I suppose the 'don't care' comment perhaps hit a sore spot, because although I do not practice a specific faith, I do indeed care very much. This is difficult for many people to realise because a lot of people who don't practice a faith do so purely because they can't be bothered and don't feel they get any benefit from it. I would not be one of those people. Spirituality, doing the best you can and being a good person are very important ideals for me.

Eldel wrote: »

As I write this, I'm preparing the Ramadan dinner, I'd say we're all doing that at the moment!

thankfully no early mornings and feeling bloated all day for me this year - my husband's job at the moment involves a lot of travelling so he won't be doing it this year.
I can almost manage the not eating all day - its the getting up in the middle of the night that kills me!
But I found it much easier when we lived in a Muslim country, as so many people were doing it and you got a sense of community.

My husband is not I suppose what many people would associate with being Muslim - his sect is quite liberal compared to others (he does not agree with wearing headscarves or hijabs or burquas, does not wish for sharia law to be common law etc).
He does not always do Ramadan, but when he does it's not really about being a 'good' muslim, more about going without for a while so you can be more appreciative of what you have, and the fact that you are lucky enough to be able to open a fridge whenever you want and have food or drink - so many people do not have that luxury and it is easy to forget that. This is a lesson I will definitely want my children to learn. They won't be forced to do Ramadan, but I will encourage them to do it occasionally or even for a few days when they are old enough.

prinz

Cincikchick wrote: »

.. so many people do not have that luxury and it is easy to forget that. This is a lesson I will definitely want my children to learn. They won't be forced to do Ramadan, but I will encourage them to do it occasionally or even for a few days when they are old enough.

Christians are advised to fast on occassion too. No need to revolve it around Ramadan if you really want to incorporate both traditions.

tatli_lokma

prinz wrote: »

Christians are advised to fast on occassion too. No need to revolve it around Ramadan if you really want to incorporate both traditions.

Maybe so, I won't disagree with you, but I was never advised as a Catholic to fast from sunrise to sunset and not even drink water. I don't know many Christians who follow this practice. And the sense of community is very nice around the time of Ramadan and doing it for a month takes a bit more effort than giving up sweets for lent

prinz

Cincikchick wrote: »

Maybe so, I won't disagree with you, but I was never advised as a Catholic to fast from sunrise to sunset and not even drink water. I don't know many Christians who follow this practice. And the sense of community is very nice around the time of Ramadan and doing it for a month takes a bit more effort than giving up sweets for lent

I meant in in terms of being neutral or incorporating both traditions. Christian fasting goes beyond giving up sweets for lent, there are folk who do the 40 day dawn to dusk fast as Christians too (as Jesus did in the desert)... if you want to know them they are out there.

Best of luck with the balancing act, have my own going on, only involving nationality, and no kids yet so I can foresee a future involving give and take :pac:

At the same time it is slightly odd IMO for someone to say that their religious practices as a child were not formative and were not important to how their own children would be raised... then continue on the describe abiding by a religious practice (Ramadan). Maybe just me.

tatli_lokma

prinz wrote: »

At the same time it is slightly odd IMO for someone to say that their religious practices as a child were not formative and were not important to how their own children would be raised... then continue on the describe abiding by a religious practice (Ramadan). Maybe just me.

Odd to you maybe, but I'm just being honest. Baptism, Communion and confirmation had no real impact on me as a person. I honestly feel that I would still hold the same values and beliefs I do had I not been baptised, confirmed or whatever. The things that really formed me were my parents values and the lessons they taught me.

In fact, if I am honest, you are right they did form me, but not in the way intended. As a result of many religious practices we had in school I was only more certain that catholocism wasn't for me - I was petrified of my first confession and it has stuck with me to this day. I loathe the concept of a child feeling obliged to make up things to be forgiven for - which is what most of us did...I was cheeky to my mammy, I said a bold word....but not fully comprehending the actual concept. I don't feel comfortable that a priest feels he has the power to forgive a sin on Gods behalf, that you can confess what you like, murder, rape, child abuse and provided you say you're sorry and ask for absolution then the slate is wiped clean!?!

Sticking money in a trocaire box for the little starving black babies didn't
provide a formative experience either. But my mam insisting that I get involved in the local charity and helping out in the summer holidays, or when my parents told me that in order for Santa to come with new toys I had to give away at least two toys. Or when I was bold I didn't get pocket money and it went into a charity box! These experiences all formed me as a person and my beliefs, not getting dressed up in a frilly dress and collecting money from people (actually my mam allowed me to use the money to buy 1 new toy and some books and 1 game. Anything after that had to go to a charity, but I was allowed choose the charity myself, and I chose DSPCA!

)

prinz

Cincikchick wrote: »

In fact, if I am honest, you are right they did form me, but not in the way intended. As a result of many religious practices we had in school I was only more certain that catholocism wasn't for me -

Fair enough. Most people are exposed to cultural Catholicism which ruins it for a lot. You are correct the actual meanings behind the sacraments have been lost at the expense of a big day out/parties/money/gifts etc. You mentioned earlier how much discord and pain it would cause you to marry someone who misses the point of practising a certain religion in favour of the materialism etc, but then you use this materialism as a reason to distance yourself from the religion itself. The two are not inextricably linked.

On the confession front there is no real marked difference between RCC and Islam, save for the presence of a priest who is acting in persona Christi, so it's not all that different tbh, added to the fact that the slate is never 'wiped clean' in the eyes of God. There will still be a judgement day.

Cincikchick wrote: »

Anything after that had to go to a charity, but I was allowed choose the charity myself, and I chose DSPCA! )

Good choice

You have an interesting future ahead. All the best.

mathepac

Cincikchick wrote: »

... I don't feel comfortable that a priest feels he has the power to forgive a sin on Gods behalf, that you can confess what you like, murder, rape, child abuse and provided you say you're sorry and ask for absolution then the slate is wiped clean!? ...

Your understanding of the sacrament of reconciliation is flawed. Maybe revisiting and relearning the three elements of reconciliation, namely conversion, confession and celebration, might change your current erroneous perspective.

Cincikchick wrote: »

... Sticking money in a trocaire box for the little starving black babies didn't
provide a formative experience either. But my mam insisting that I get involved in the local charity and helping out in the summer holidays, or when my parents told me that in order for Santa to come with new toys I had to give away at least two toys. Or when I was bold I didn't get pocket money and it went into a charity box! These experiences all formed me as a person and my beliefs, not getting dressed up in a frilly dress and collecting money from people (actually my mam allowed me to use the money to buy 1 new toy and some books and 1 game. Anything after that had to go to a charity, but I was allowed choose the charity myself, and I chose DSPCA! )

But these practices have nothing whatsoever to do with any religion. It sounds like they were contrivances used to enforce some sort of parental punishment / reward system, using a religious / school event or external organisation as the mechanism, and in your mind these things seem linked erroneously with Catholicism.

tatli_lokma

mathepac wrote: »

Your understanding of the sacrament of reconciliation is flawed. Maybe revisiting and relearning the three elements of reconciliation, namely conversion, confession and celebration, might change your current erroneous perspective.
But these practices have nothing whatsoever to do with any religion. It sounds like they were contrivances used to enforce some sort of parental punishment / reward system, using a religious / school event or external organisation as the mechanism, and in your mind these things seem linked erroneously with Catholicism.

Look, this thread wasn't started to discuss my personal religious beliefs, it is about merging of two religions and cultures, so I think we are getting a bit off topic and this would be better suited to the religion forum.

Having said that, in answer to your comments, my perspective is not erroneous - a perspective is just that, how you look on something. In school we were taught - perhaps erroneously - that if we confessed our sins we would be forgiven. I was told, directly from a priest that myself and my husband would be free to marry in a catholic church, provided we both accepted the sacriment of marriage. I pointed out that my HTB hadn't had the previous sacriments, and not being a catholic or even a Christian, did not understand the concept of receiving the sacriment. The answer we were given, was 'sure all he has to do is agree, it doesn't have to mean something to him specifically and he does not have to convert, but if you want to have a religious ceremony he has to say he accepts the sacriment'. So basically, be a hypocrite, which seems to be a running theme through catholocism, IMO. A running theme through many religions actually, but my personal experience is with Catholocism.

As for linking experiences with religion - you seem to miss the point I was making. These experiences helped form my moral compass, and gave me lessons to learn, which I feel were beneficial. The lessons I learned as part of the ritual of religion did not have the same impact. My formative experiences were not religion based. The religious experiences I had, whilst I remember them, I don't feel they had any real impact on me as a person, and had I not been confirmed etc, I don't think it would have made much difference to how I turned out.

prinz

Cincikchick wrote: »

Look, this thread wasn't started to discuss my personal religious beliefs, it is about merging of two religions and cultures, so I think we are getting a bit off topic and this would be better suited to the religion forum.

Not wanting to go too far off topic but it doesn't seem to be about merging two religions at all, which is the point. You have no problems writing of Christianity and Christians while simultaneously abiding by Islamic practices. This is your right, enjoy, but don't pretend there is an equal approach being taken.

tatli_lokma

prinz wrote: »

Not wanting to go too far off topic but it doesn't seem to be about merging two religions at all, which is the point. You have no problems writing of Christianity and Christians while simultaneously abiding by Islamic practices. This is your right, enjoy, but don't pretend there is an equal approach being taken.

errrmmmmm

I never said I abide by Islamic practices - I think you will find that I mentioned that there is one particular practice, that of Ramadan fasting, which I can appreciate as a worthwhile practice. If I were 'abiding' by Islamic practices, then surely I would be a Muslim - which I am not, and have no intention of becoming.

I also do not "write off" Christianity - I think you will find that I pointedly said that I have difficulties with Catholocism and therefore do not practice my Christianity as a catholic. I never 'wrote off' Christianity, or spiritualism, but rather I choose not to participate in the established RC church. I can only speak of catholocism, as that is the faith I was raised in, so it is not an attack on a specific faith, but instead it is my view of a faith I have experience of - I can hardly be slagging off all of christianity when I say I don't agree with certain concepts of religious practice??!!

There are some Christian practices I "abide" by - i.e we celebrate Christmas, I pray, and many other 'practices' which are Christian, but not specifically catholic. My husband has his own practices which he follows, some of which I participate in, others I don't. Likewise, he particpates in some Christiam practices, and not others, such as he celebrates Christmas with me, although his celebration is of the birth of a prophet, rather than the son of God. Whether participating together or independently we respect each others choice to do so, and we support each other in those choices.

Seems to me, that some people are not open to the concept of not being tied by one specific religion. For me, merging and accepting different faiths, and enjoying the good in each is the important thing. That is what we do in our family, and it is what my children will do. From my observations of your replies, you seem a bit miffed that I do not wholeheartedly bang the drum for Christianity. My faith is my personal choice, as is how I practice it and celebrate it. Whether that is enough for you, is a seperate issue. For me, I am quite happy with it. Obeying set rules does not make me a better christian or person, IMO. But that is all my own opinion, and its me who has to feel comfortable with it. If it bothers you how I practice then that is your own issue.

prinz

Cincikchick wrote: »

errrmmmmm
I never said I abide by Islamic practices - I think you will find that I mentioned that there is one particular practice, that of Ramadan fasting, which I can appreciate as a worthwhile practice.

It is. As are all periods of fasting. Would you agree that hypocrisy runs through Islam for instance?

Cincikchick wrote: »

From my observations of your replies, you seem a bit miffed that I do not wholeheartedly bang the drum for Christianity..

Not at all. However I haven't seen anything positive about it either. You have written off the sacraments...which btw are not confined to Roman Catholicism, and seem to view Catholicism and by extension Christianity in a very skeptical light by confusing the faith and the actions of some who practice it (i.e. materialism, the big day out culture), the lack of a sense of community...

Cincikchick wrote: »

If it bothers you how I practice then that is your own issue.

It doesn't. Just an interesting topic IMO. If it bothers you how other people practice Christianity then that is their issue.

tatli_lokma

prinz wrote: »

It is. As are all periods of fasting. Would you agree that hypocrisy runs through Islam for instance? .

yes it does, as it exists in all religions were far too much power and trust is give to those 'in charge'. This is the very reason why I practice my personal belief system in my own way, a way that I am comfortable with, and why I do not follow a set doctrine or institutionalised church.

prinz wrote: »

Not at all. However I haven't seen anything positive about it either. You have written off the sacraments...which btw are not confined to Roman Catholicism, and seem to view Catholicism and by extension Christianity in a very skeptical light by confusing the faith and the actions of some who practice it (i.e. materialism, the big day out culture), the lack of a sense of community....

regardless, that is my experience of being raised a Catholic - any confusion or misunderstanding you may perceive is undoubtedly the result of how I was 'taught' Catholicism in school and as a result of personal experiences and things I saw with my own eyes. I do not view Christianity with skepticism, but I view Catholicism with disdain, which is my right.
I also never said I wrote off the sacriments - my point was that I learned very little worthwhile which made me a better person by getting confirmed or making my communion. In fact I would say that I have more respect for the sacriments than the priest who wanted my husband to belittle them by basically lying and pretending he understood them.

this thread is about Christians married to Muslims, not a discussion on my personal belief system or how I practice my christianity. I would appreciate it if you would stop picking holes in how I choose to practice my faith and instead address the issue at hand - although this may be difficult for you given you have no personal experience of being married to a Muslim :rolleyes:
Not very Christian to be so judgemental really, is it??

prinz

Cincikchick wrote: »

I also never said I wrote off the sacriments..

In fairness you said they meant nothing to you, and you also took the mick out of confession, in doing so establishing that you actually do not have an understanding of what it represents, in the Catholic Church or any other Christian church you care to mention.

Cincikchick wrote: »

Not very Christian to be so judgemental really, is it??

Who was judging? I was interested to know how you, and others, were going to balance the two, if at all. On that note continuing this is pointless as the constant undertone is negative. I would suggest though that the thread title is misleading on two counts.

Best of luck with your husband and family.

tatli_lokma

prinz wrote: »

In fairness you said they meant nothing to you, and you also took the mick out of confession, in doing so establishing that you actually do not have an understanding of what it represents, in the Catholic Church or any other Christian church you care to mention.

so because something doesn't hold any meaning to me personally, I am therefore writing them off???

I didn't take 'the mick' out of confession, but you seem to feel like anything I say is a personal affront to Christianity. Again, personally I don't 'get' the concept, and IMO it is regularly misused, as I was trying to point out in my examples. Being realistic is not 'taking the mick' - are you honestly telling me that every child out there who goes to confession because it is part of making their communion, fully understands what they are there to do? that they don't do what I did and trot out the usual 'i said a bad word...I was cheeky' etc. If you can't see that this is what goes on and that this is the experience most people have of confession is just naive.

My own belief is that a reform of the Catholic church is well past due - were there to be a reformation I may well return to practicing. But as long as people see every criticism of Catholic practice as a scathing attack then it is not likely.

Regardless of my faith in Catholocism, my faith in Christianity and my wish to live a good life has not changed. In fact, marrying a non-Christian has reminded me of the many good things about my faith and has also shown me that where the important things are concerned we believe the same things and want the same things for our children.

prinz

Cincikchick wrote: »

so because something doesn't hold any meaning to me personally, I am therefore writing them off???
I didn't take 'the mick' out of confession, but you seem to feel like anything I say is a personal affront to Christianity. Again, personally I don't 'get' the concept, and IMO it is regularly misused, as I was trying to point out in my examples. Being realistic is not 'taking the mick' -.

You said anyone could go confess murder, child abuse etc and get the 'slate wiped clean'... and you couldn't understand this, as it seems absurd. You don't get the concept because confession is not about wiping your slate clean in the eyes of God. Try to explain that and the shutters come down. I'm not taking anything personally, you are entitled to your opinion. It might be based on a total misunderstanding but there you go.

Cincikchick wrote: »

My own belief is that a reform of the Catholic church is well past due - were there to be a reformation I may well return to practicing. But as long as people see every criticism of Catholic practice as a scathing attack then it is not likely..

Criticise Catholic practice all you like. But if your criticism isn't valid expect to have it challenged.

Cincikchick wrote: »

Regardless of my faith in Catholocism, my faith in Christianity and my wish to live a good life has not changed. In fact, marrying a non-Christian has reminded me of the many good things about my faith and has also shown me that where the important things are concerned we believe the same things and want the same things for our children.

..and that's why I wish ye well, with the end of Ramadan holidays coming up and all.