My name is URL wrote: » Why do you even bother with this forum? I'm genuinely interested to know. I mean most people who don't have an interest in the subject matter would give this place a wide berth, and know what the term 'conspiracy theory' means when it's used as a description of what a forum is about. ie.. likely to contain a lot of BS to put it simply.. most people wouldn't bother
My name is URL wrote: » You expend just as much energy here as the theorists, who very few people are likely to take seriously anyway for the most part. Is it solely to change the minds of theorists or what? Are there any theories which you think could contain an ounce of truth or is it the term itself which you find objectionable?
alastair wrote: » Curiosity - same reason I drop into reactionary right wing blogs from time to time. Always good to know what the other crowd are on about. I've no problem with accepting conspiracies exist - you would be ignoring history otherwise, but 'grand' conspiracies are never going to work out given the human condition - so all the typical 9/11, moon landing, alien lizard shapeshifter, NWO guff should be obvious to anyone with a critical faculty. It also serves to provide a handy cover for underhand misdeeds that would otherwise be the focus of concern. 9/11 is a case in point - the actual shortfall in the US response is buried under a tonne of patent nonsense, so attention is handily misdirected - maybe there's your conspiracy (aside from the boring al qaeda one)?
My name is URL wrote: » It just irks me that so many threads end in the same way.. everyone seems to have a label for everyone else, and the more vocal from each side compounds that.. it's fairly off-putting for those with more moderate views I'd imagine
TalkieWalkie wrote: » CNN are big supporters of the "no plane" theory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHWHHid0Pmo
meglome wrote: » It irks me too, it really does. But I am personally willing to believe quite a lot if someone can explain why i should. However what TalkieWalkie did above is a classic example of what many truthers will do when put on the spot about their beliefs.... change the subject. Seriously 2 big planes flew over a city of 8 million people to suggest that there were no planes is beyond silly. I saw it live myself at the time.
TalkieWalkie wrote: » Actually I didn't change the subject. I offered a theory and was asked to supply evidence of it which I did.
TalkieWalkie wrote: » It's pointless debating with some of you skeppies.
Mahatma coat wrote: » Just to weigh in here for a second meglome it dosent matter if New york has Eight or Eighty million people, how many of them actually SAW the planes?? I have a friend who was in NY at the time of the attacks, he didnt see planes, he saw the smoke and the fire and was in the middle of the confused panic on the Streets, He like most other people only found out from the Television what had happened, Millions of people BELIEVE that they saw Live footage of Planes hitting the buildings, but the nub of the argument is that it IS entirely possible to fake something like that, theres an emotive memory planted with teh Images of the planes hitting Being repeated adnauseum for the month following the attack in the public conciousness where even to this day people are steadfastly stating 'I know what I saw'. The question is do you really??
humanji wrote: » It is of course possible to fake it, but there's too much of a chance of it being uncovered.
paddyirishman85 wrote: » I doubt a lot of people saw or took much notice of the first plane. But after the first plane hit, obviously 8million people didn't see it, but thousands of people most definitely would have seen the second plane. Even people working in other buildings would have either been looking out the windows or would have evacuated to the streets for fear that another plane might hit their building.
humanji wrote: » Well, if it means anything, I have a mate who was there and saw the second plane hit. He also believes the US government are behind it. I just don't see why it would seem easier to fake it than to use actual planes. It is of course possible to fake it, but there's too much of a chance of it being uncovered. It's just good sense to fly a real plane into the building.
meglome wrote: » Look even if we ignore the thousands of people who saw the planes... there were plane parts (registered to those planes), there were body parts (matched with DNA), there were Id's and personal effects (matched to the passengers on those planes). So we have some highly compressed video with no plane on it... or we take the ton of other evidence for a plane including the same video at higher res which shows the plane. So we have to assume some incredible new hologram technology, we can also assume thousands of people needed to be in on it to even fake the footage, we have to figure some way for them to get the bodies and plane parts into the buildings, etc etc... in short it's ridiculous and impossible. AND most importantly would be way easier just to use real planes.
Church and Vesey. We were coming across and we walked down. We had to go down to the command center. We carried all our tools, the bottles, everything, and as we're walking down, part of the plane engine was sitting right in the street, still burning. I said, look, this is the plane. FDNY firefighter Paul Hyland Once we started taking off, I guess 30 feet in front of us, there was a lady on the ground by the curb and she was just waving her arms. That's all she could wave. Her legs were crushed. Apparently she got hit by part of the landing gear, one of the tires of the airplane. There was a large tire next to her. FDNY EMT Orlando Martinez ...we started making our way to NYU Downtown Hospital, Beekman, to drop off our first set of patients when we got flagged down for another lady who got hit by the landing gear of the first plane. FDNY EMT Frank Puma We just passed a compact car where the engine was running and the door was open, which looked to me like the driver had escaped, but from the back seat to the trunk was crushed by a jet engine. We started going up West Street. I believe that's when Smitty ran over the part of the plane, but he did that to avoid the bodies because there were obviously bodies in the street. FDNY firefighter Michael Hazel There was a car that we drove by that the driver's door and the passenger door were open, and there was a plane motor on the back half of the car. Two inches more, and both these guys would have been dead too. That was their ticket. It was amazing. The car was actually cut right in half with this motor, right there back of the front seat. I sat there in amazement. FDNY firefighter Richard Saulle "A section of the landing gear proved to me that this was a commercial airliner." PAPD Det. Sgt. Raymond Dilena Source A tremendous fireball, flaming debris, pieces of the airplane, fuselage, landing gear, pieces of the building. ...We started running down one of the little side streets, Courtlandt or Dey. There were people dead in the street that obviously you couldn't help them. There was flaming debris coming down all over. It was just a matter of who got hit with the debris. FDNY Captain Michael Donovan Right behind us on the southeast corner of West and Rector was a landing gear assembly from an aircraft lying against the curb and some scaffolding. PAPD Det. Edward Rapp Source As we approached West Broadway, a NYPD lieutenant told us we could not proceed due to aircraft parts blocking the road. PAPD Det. Robert Fuchs Source People coming out of the buildings half burned, the fuel must have spewed down and hit some people. A lot of burns literally down through the skin to the bone. I had two patients on my ambulance, vehicle 111. FBI Agents were telling us to move our vehicle from the corner of Vessey and West, cause there was debris from the airplane which they needed for evidence. I guess it was NTSB, they wanted the area secured. There was nowhere for us to move the vehicle, cause there was debris everywhere. FDNY EMT Alwish Monchery After that, an FBI agent came down the block. He identified some landing gear that was in front of our rig, asked me to make sure no pedestrians came down the block to interfere with any type of metals and debris that were there, because they were trying to identify to put the pieces back together for the plane. FDNY firefighter Sidney Parris Vesey and Church, Vesey and Church right there. We stepped off the rig, and there were plane engine parts and people yelling and screaming. FDNY firefighter Bertram Springstead Walking around, we came out to Rector Street. We saw one of the landing gears from the airplane. FDNY EMT Benjamin Badillo Various pieces of the plane were falling on the street. As we went down the street you could see parts of aircraft with stencil numbers on it and things like that. There was a wheel, or like a wheel housing or something else there in the street. FDNY Deputy Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick I continued down Liberty, just west of 10 and 10. As I got down a little farther, there was what looked to be a piece of the cabin of the airplane, I guess. It looked like a piece of it about maybe six foot long. It looked like the windows. FDNY Battalion Chief Brian Dixon I parked the rig on Church right at Fulton, directly in front of the World Trade north plaza. My officer told us we're going to go into the north tower lobby. We proceeded down to Vesey. Walking down Vesey, we noticed large pieces of what looked like possibly the fuselage from the plane. There was a caravan of motorcycle police coming up. We stopped them and we cleared the path of big O rings and pieces of fuselage of the plane. We threw it to the side, and we told the guys to go on. Fire Patrolman Paul Curran ...it was Dey or Cortlandt Street. We walked down that block. It was littered with airplane parts.... FDNY Chief Ray Goldbach Captain Nahmod and I were running down Vesey Street stepping over airplane pieces, several bodies and whatnot. There was what looked like the front wheel assembly of an airplane. Unknown the size of the plane that had hit, it just looked like it was one pair of wheels on an assembly, pieces of metal with rivets in them, a few body parts scattered around. FDNY EMT Richard Zarillo Michael Sheehan, a broker working on the 55th floor of 2 World Trade Center, moved to the stairwell when he realized a plane had crashed into 1 World Trade Center. By the time he reached the 25th floor, he could smell the fumes of fuel that had begun to filter through the ventilation systems of the two buildings. Like I remember walking by with the chief, and I remember seeing the airplane engine. FDNY EMT Robert Kimball We came up, tried to find our way into the courtyard area and we hugged the side of the buildings and it was an overhang that we stayed under. We noticed metal that looked like it came from the plane, in retrospect. FDNY Assistant Commissioner Thomas McDonald So we ran back to the car and laying right in back of my car was a large object which I thought was probably part of one of the aircraft turbines. FDNY Chief of Safety Albert Turi. We did see part of -- I didn't see it, but Jeff Johnson told me later on he did see part of the landing gear actually fell right through the roof and it was in one of the Jacuzzis in another room. FDNY firefighter John Breen, in the Marriott Vista hotel (WTC 3) By the time I started to pass by in front of (firehouse) 10 and 10. As I got down a little farther, there was what looked to be a piece of the cabin of the airplane, I guess. It looked like a piece of it about maybe six foot long. It looked like the windows. FDNY firefighter Brian Dixon The other thing that was actually evident, though, is what appeared to be some plane parts, like some circular pieces of a plane, the walk down Vesey Street. FDNY EMS Dr. Michael Guttenberg We were driving out of the tunnel up West Street and we're seeing body parts in the street, torsos, chunks of flesh, parts of the airplane landing gear, car fires everywhere. It was like a war zone. FDNY firefighter Steve Piccerill I passed over some pieces of what appeared to be aircraft wreckage, fuselage, whatever, some body parts and bodies in various states, either people from the building or the airplanes. You couldn't tell. They weren't intact. FDNY EMS Division Chief John Peruggia Then actually when I found my car, I found my car like later, later on in the day, but I left it there, because it was not able to be moved because it was covered. There was an airplane tire about 10 feet away from it. FDNY EMS Captain Frank D'Amato, at the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel & West Street The landing gear of the aircraft was in that parking lot there. It was right near us. FDNY firefighter Dean Coutsouros There were a number of airplane parts throughout the street, littering the streets. FDNY firefighter Robert Norris I remember at one point seeing what looked like piece of an airplane. That piece looked like it crushed half that car. FDNY firefighter Kevin McCabe ...our initial response was seeing body parts and airplane parts all over the west side. FDNY EMT Stephen Hess You heard the explosion and everything, but I saw the big fire ball. The stuff was coming down across the street. It looked like a meteor came flying across the street. They said it was the engine. FDNY firefighter Peter Fallucca As we were riding in, we must have ran over some debris from the plane. We saw debris all over the floor. We saw a wheel. There was cars that were flattened. It was obvious that heavy things had fallen on them. FDNY firefighter Joseph Sullivan That was before we got to the south pedestrian bridge, before Liberty Street . You could see airplane parts just littered across the street, across the highway. FDNY firefighter Craig Monahan You could see airplane parts on the ground and although I didn't realize it at the time, I later realized there were body parts, both on the concourse and on the street. (some of these might have been jumpers) I now made a left on Vesey and walked down the street on the 7 World Trade Center side, where I could see more airplane debris. FDNY Assistant Commissioner James Drury There was jumpers everywhere, there was bodies everywhere, pieces of plane everywhere. FDNY firefighter Kevin Murray We walked down Vesey Street, and it was like total silence, nothing. It was eerie. There were police cars all parked on angles, metal going through their hoods. There was a tire of a plane on top of one. FDNY firefighter Arthur Riccio It's interesting because, as we were there, there was a police car, I guess, on Vesey, on the corner there, and some debris comes down from whatever this explosion was, at the time we really didn't know, and it just crushes it, I mean, crushes the top front of the police car, which really scared me at that point. Q.Could you tell if it was airplane parts? A. It looked like an airplane part afterward, yes, it did. It looked like part of an engine. It was pretty big. It was probably the size of the hood because it kind of hit it, bounced, and then rolled off. FDNY paramedic Manuel Delgado Well, we had problems securing some tie- back cables to the setback roof and I had to go to the upper roof to see if we could run the cables up there. I had my camera and headed for the upper roof and I couldn't believe what I saw. There was a large piece of a landing gear and pieces of airplane parts all over the roof. I took many pictures and quickly left he roof. Louis, aka "Scaffoldrider" Took photos of aircraft parts on Federal Building Source In my zeal to get close, I had not noticed the falling bodies. Then I nearly stepped into a puddle of blood that was congealing beside what looked like the titanium gear of a pulverized airliner. Andrew Jacobs One security officer reported that while the engine of the first plane had landed in the [Marriot] swimming pool, everyone in the health club was fine, and all were being brought to the lobby. Another officer radioed that the room-by-room evacuation was proceeding and that all guests were being brought down to the first floor. Source
King Mob wrote: » Because I'm not arsed to waste the time and bandwidth with more examples of people failing to identify video compression and drawing ridiculous conclusions from it. Why not just explain it in a few words? If we just kept linking you a video over and over again we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Di0genes wrote: » Loads of pictures and the source for the above quotes
The first photograph shows a portion of Flight 11's landing gear, according to Chapter 2 of FEMA's World Trade Center Building Performance Study. The report locates the debris -- the only part of the plane it identified -- at the corner of West and Rector Streets, about four blocks south of the North Tower. The second photograph, apparently of the same landing gear fragment, shows more of the surroundings.
TalkieWalkie wrote: » Doesnt look like the same piece to me, it's very different. Also seems to have moved location, one is on the corner of a street and the other not. But the scaffold in the background seems to have stayed and has been cleaned up a bit. In fact, the whold area has been cleaned up a bit.
The NIST report said of this photo: A second wheel from a landing gear, shown in Figure 6-18, was found much further south at the corner of Rector Street and West Street. This is a distance of roughly 1,385 ft from the base of the south face of WTC 1. The presence of a braking system indicates that this wheel also came from one of the two main landing gears. The two wheels in Figure 6-16 and Figure 6-18 are the only large pieces of aircraft debris from WTC1 that have been identified in the visual record. Numerous smaller pieces of aircraft debris are evident in close-ups of the street debris following the aircraft impact. The aircraft wheel found embedded in the panel section at the corner of Cedar and West Street likely passed through the center of the building in order to hit the south face near the center. Based on where it landed, it is considered likely that the wheel that landed on the corner of Rector and West Streets also passed through the core, but this conclusion is not as well supported as for the other wheel"
Joshua Jones wrote: » How can you comment on a thread where you don't take in relevant information?.
TalkieWalkie wrote: » Hmm, they don't seem to work.
Is this part of your proof ?
Di0genes wrote: » Lets see your argument is that. No plane hit the WTC at all. No one saw a plane hit the first time, and then no plane hit it the second time. None of the 8 million people living in Manhattan noticed this, despite this happening in broad daylight. You're also saying that some of the footage of this was faked, and some wasn't and that the footage that was faked was inserted real time, despite the fact that the technology doesn't exist. Then some how airplane wreckage was strewn around the WTC complex, including trashing cars, and no one noticed this. An this was all done on the pretext of invading Iraq and Afghanistan, and in order to facilitates this they dropped the passport of a Saudi man into the debris. And you, seriously, have the temerity to try and be scathing about other peoples "proof"?
Di0genes wrote: » The links can be found,http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lie...aftpartsnyc911 here. Lets see your argument is that. No plane hit the WTC at all. No one saw a plane hit the first time, and then no plane hit it the second time. None of the 8 million people living in Manhattan noticed this, despite this happening in broad daylight. You're also saying that some of the footage of this was faked, and some wasn't and that the footage that was faked was inserted real time, despite the fact that the technology doesn't exist. Then some how airplane wreckage was strewn around the WTC complex, including trashing cars, and no one noticed this. An this was all done on the pretext of invading Iraq and Afghanistan, and in order to facilitates this they dropped the passport of a Saudi man into the debris. And you, seriously, have the temerity to try and be scathing about other peoples "proof"?
meglome wrote: » Well put. I'd be the first to say there are many thing about 911 that can be discussed back and forth but seriously to believe the no planes theory you need to also have no problem believing in the tooth fairy and santa claus.
alastair wrote: » Your research letting you down again?
TalkieWalkie wrote: » Yes that's what am saying. The technology does exist to edit real time tv, it has existed since 1998, often used during football games.
Even if it didn't exist.... the theory is that there is an approx 17 second delay on the news stations from the hit and their reactions. But of course you wouldn't know this as you don't look at the evidence put forward.
Regarding finding plane parts at all sites.. It is fairly obvious if you want to make it look like a plane crashed at a particular area, YOU PLANT SOME PARTS !!! kinda like a cop setting someone up on a drug charge, they must plant the drugs first lmfao - it's not rocket science
TalkieWalkie wrote: » Yes that's what am saying. The technology does exist to edit real time tv, it has existed since 1998, often used during football games. Even if it didn't exist.... the theory is that there is an approx 17 second delay on the news stations from the hit and their reactions. But of course you wouldn't know this as you don't look at the evidence put forward.
TalkieWalkie wrote: » Regarding finding plane parts at all sites.. It is fairly obvious if you want to make it look like a plane crashed at a particular area, YOU PLANT SOME PARTS !!! kinda like a cop setting someone up on a drug charge, they must plant the drugs first lmfao - it's not rocket science
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