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Why Is Marijuana Illegal?

I_AmThe_Walrus

Firstly, I want to express the fact that I am not a regular user of the drug itself, nor am I condoning it - I am just interested how society has labeled it negatively when they are unwilling to educate the ill-informed about the benefits.

1) It is not in any way, shape or form, addictive, mentally or physically.
2) It has unlimited and legitimate medical uses.
3) It is not a "gateway" drug.
4) If it was legal, organised crime would fall.
5) Government can tax it and give tourism a boost.

The funny thing about this whole farce is, Marijuana has been legal in the Netherlands since the 30's and according to the consumption stats, the Dutch use the recreational drug the least. Not one recorded fatality has occurred from the use of marijuana, yet alcohol and tobacco are severe killers and they're still available.

What are you thoughts? Should it be available for purchase, legally?

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ScumLord

K_user wrote: »

The price for any product is based purely on the ability/willingness of the public to pay. That is to say, people pay what the market will bear.

There are huge debates going on about the right way to price professional, technical, trade, and creative services. And whether charging as much as we can get, wringing every last Euro out of customers, is the way to go. But more often that not, greed wins out.

There is no way to tell how much Marijuana would go for in the Irish market if it were made legal. And it is illegal, by European law, to curtail the import/export market. Thats to say we, as a country, wouldn't be allowed to only buy and sell Irish grown cannabis.

And what would be the result of Irish farmers finding out that the cattle industry pays them sqat, but weed is profitable? Over night the farmers would change what they are growing. General increase in the price of food anyone?

Swings and roundabouts. Worst case scenario the cost of weed drops by half, but the price of bread and milk doubles.

And what would be the increase in the job market? There would be a few extra jobs here and there, that would be it.

Weed is being produced for I'm guessing at around €100 an once at the moment in illegal grows around Ireland, it's probably allot less but lets leave it at that price. It's being sold on the street for €50 per eight. It would be very, very easy for a legal grow to undercut those prices. We do have an idea of cost based on the price in other countries. But it all depends on the weed, like wine it varies on the cost of production for that particular breed. Some of it can be produced very cheaply.

The simple fact of the matter is in Ireland is we can't produce food cheap enough to appease the supermarkets. So I don't think if every farmer in Ireland switched to growing cannabis or industrial hemp it would have much of an effect on the cost of our food.

Nonsense?

People, as a group, are stupid. Give them a car and they will speed up. Give them alcohol and they will drive. Give them a plug socket and they will stick five plugs into it and say that "it'll be grand". Danger always happens to other people.

Sorry but I despise this logic, we can't bring in the solution because everyone else is to stupid. Nothings ever going to be fixed in this country as long as we look at the rest of the population as beneath our particular group.

Cannabis intoxicates, pure and simple. That is why people use it. Basically it messed with your head, as does alcohol. The effects may be different, the length of time under the influence maybe variable. But it does intoxicate. Increase the number of people being intoxicated and the maths tell us that more people will be hurt. Its that simple.

The other side of this is that the long term effects of marijuana have not been fully studied. Cigarettes were legalized long before the damage that they can do was understood, but once they had a legal grip there was no going back.

We've had years and years and years of studies done all over the world this talk that we don't know the long term effects is simply untrue, we do know it's just common for the government to say they don't know or they're waiting for tests, is just so it can be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

Your really nit picking, and there's simple solutions to all your concerns that don't involve spending millions and billions and throwing people in jail. We can see what the law has created, the drug problems we have today have never existed in the history of mans use of drugs. That's blindingly obvious whatever your concerns they can be dealt with on an individual basis as they arise, what we can't deal with is organised crime. At this stage we really, really need to consider the least worst option.

Herbal Deity

ScumLord wrote: »

We've had years and years and years of studies done all over the world this talk that we don't know the long term effects is simply untrue, we do know it's just common for the government to say they don't know or they're waiting for tests, is just so it can be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

Essentially they don't know the long term effects because they can't find any.

Unfortunately, you can't prove a negative. You can't definitively prove there are no side effects the same way that you can't prove there's no God. And even when all the evidence seems to suggest otherwise, a heavily funded agenda can keep on trying to clutch at as many straws as possible.

james23993

yeah i know this is a bit off the subject but i remember an article in the paper about a dog in kerry who sniffed out four ounces of cannabis and decided to eat them. Apparently the dog was stoned for 3 weeks straight
just thought id let yas know..

Snowie

ScumLord wrote: »

Weed is being produced for I'm guessing at around €100

Depends on quality, an ounce of good quality skunk which I got to see for my self... Will cost 300 euros.

Bye all factors it was worth it, good level of sticky ness well burped more then anything. Hit me like mike tyson :pac:.... Didn't bye any couldn't afford it..

So I don't think if every farmer in Ireland switched to growing cannabis or industrial hemp it would have much of an effect on the cost of our food.

Your kidding right, some of the best weed you can get is home groan. there are some damm good growers in this country, I got some thi weed that had been grown in ireland blew the head of me...if weeds well grown it will sell and better still make you a lot of money.

We've had years and years and years of studies done all over the world this talk that we don't know the long term effects is simply untrue, we do know it's just common for the government to say they don't know or they're waiting for tests, is just so it can be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

While I agree. I do think people who suffer from things like Pain aka FibroMialga should be entitled to smoke it, the studys have been shown that it helps with the pain in america there allowed over here doctors openly tell there patients to smoke it because its the only releif they can get as the "legal" med subscribe do so much damage. Ive seen the effects first hand...

My personal opinion is Ive seen the good effects of weed and Ive seen the dark places it can bring you... I really think it should be up to the person...

thebigbiffo

K_user wrote: »

4) If it was legal, organised crime would fall.

B*ll*x

there's been a few of these comments and - whatever about the rest of the points - surely this is the easiest one to prove. i dont understand how anyone can simply reply 'b*llox' to this point when it's as clear as day.

MJ market is worth at least 1 billion in this country (take value of seizures to about about 10% of the market as this is the accepted risk factor for traffickers - i'm fairly sure it's about 100m value seized on average most years). it is the number one used illegal drug in ireland, this makes it the most attractive to dealers.

How on earth can anybody say taking 1 billion from the pockets of oranised crime is a bad thing? also, how can anyone say there'd still be a black market for it!? it's a PLANT people, you can grow it at home for free ffs. it can be sold extremely cheaply making any market for unlicenced trading ridiculously unattractive.

so. it stands to reason that the only way to really effect crims pockets is to de-criminalise it. a bit like these 13 states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization_of_non-medical_cannabis_in_the_United_States

or how about something a little bigger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World-cannabis-laws.png

we just have to be behind the rest of the world dont we.

and whats with the arguments about farmers just opting to grow weed instead of food? seriously, people should just not contribute if that's the best they can do. unbelievable.

ScumLord

I think you might have taken me up wrong on a few points Snow-Monkey

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

Depends on quality, an ounce of good quality skunk which I got to see for my self... Will cost 300 euros.

Is that the street price or what the growers are selling it for? I was saying the growers are selling for €100 - €200 euros and then the dealers are putting another €100 (if your buying the oz) on top of that. To the end user the price is a highly inflated €300 per oz, if your buying eights it's working out at €400 an oz.

Your kidding right, some of the best weed you can get is home groan. there are some damm good growers in this country, I got some thi weed that had been grown in ireland blew the head of me...if weeds well grown it will sell and better still make you a lot of money.

What I was saying there is that even if all the farmers in Ireland move into weed production it won't really have any effect on the cost of our food due to farmers growing weed instead. We import a lot of food as Irish farmers can't compete with international cheap food so it's not going to have a huge impact on the cost of our food if farmers stop producing it. Nothing to do with the quality of weed that can be grown here, the weed grown indoors here can be as good as weed grown indoors anywhere.

Snowie

ScumLord wrote: »

I think you might have taken me up wrong on a few points Snow-Monkey

Is that the street price or what the growers are selling it for? I was saying the growers are selling for €100 - €200 euros and then the dealers are putting another €100 (if your buying the oz) on top of that. To the end user the price is a highly inflated €300 per oz, if your buying eights it's working out at €400 an oz.

I have sorry about that dude

Irish prices on weed are crazy man it all depends on quality....
I dont know enough but personally if i was a grower i wouldn't be dealing in ounces id sell kilos. There's not enough return in an ounce to make it worth my while.

but that's how drug dealers make money man they cut the drugs into low affordable weights....

for instance if a dealer went to say any college or it or dit, with say an ounce of hash in eights he'dor she would walk out an hour later pockets full of money...

tho the risk with that is if your caught with a bag full of weightd, cut hash, and your caught, good bye....

Snow monkey would like to say that he does not condone drug dealing its wrong and drugs are bad, Its allso very illegal, would never even consider being a drug dealer because Hed probably get caught questions were answered and I offered an explanation.

Ruski

Because the man is putting us down, brother. Let's toke up and complain but do nothing about it.

clived2

runman wrote: »

And the smoking of marijuana with tobacco would make it a killer of course considering 90% of weed is smoked with tobacco.

I had a cyanide ham sandwich the last day, I died
Damm you ham:mad:

thebigbiffo

clived2 wrote: »

I had a cyanide ham sandwich the last day, I died
Damm you ham:mad:

he also said 90% of weed is smoked with tobacco.

he's obviously a lightweight, reverse that ratio and you're close

Parsley

Wasn't there some study done that concluded that smoking marijuana lessened the carcinogenic effects of tobacco smoke?

Snake Pliisken

Elle Collins wrote: »

It's well known to be psychologically addictive.

This has been covered and brought up in this thread over and over again, by both sides.

Cheeky_gal wrote: »

Absolute bull imo. Imagine half the country going around stoned all day?? Jesus I couldn't think of anything worse. It'll never happen! :rolleyes:

Who goes around drunk all day? None but the severest of alcoholics, a tiny tiny amount of people.

Cheeky_gal wrote: »

Listen, I'm not arguing or debating that with you. You're probably right. I'm merely voicing my opinion that I don't think it should be legalised and I'm glad it's not. Apart from medical use, what benefits does it have apart from relaxing you?

A mate of mine stupidly drove home on one occasion when she had been smoking the stuff for hours previous and drove home with the handbrake up! Extremely stupid and irresponsible I know, but there's a prime reason as to why it shouldn't be legalised, she could have killed someone in that state.

But your opinion is based on the facts that have been proven wrong, so you're just being wilfully ignorant .

Your mate sounds like an idiot to start with, driving home in any state of intoxication. Driving stoned would still be against the law if cannabis was legalised. Your friend should be legally accountable, not the drug- she stupidly decided to drive when she shouldn't have.

Cheeky_gal wrote: »

Well I actually started a thread about him a few months back called "So... just found out my boyf was in prison".

Anyways I don't want to "hack" or "troll" this thread. But to answer your question that's how he's doing, not very well, slippery path

Even without him 'taking' hash everyday he sounds like a loser. People have to start realising that some people are just fúcking lazy, or stupid, or ignorant and stop scapegoating a chemical.

Snake Pliisken

Parsley wrote: »

Wasn't there some study done that concluded that smoking marijuana lessened the carcinogenic effects of tobacco smoke?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14570037?dopt=Abstract#

kleefarr

Snake Pliisken wrote: »

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14570037?dopt=Abstract#

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67366629&postcount=246

I_AmThe_Walrus

It's significantly frustrating to see that the majority of people don't understand the difference between decriminalisation and legalisation.

With the former, there are still regulations in place and that is what the pursuers of this new legislation are content with. The greatest battle pro-decriminalisation folk have to fight will be the utter ignorance of the ordinary people.

DepecheHead101

Ruski wrote: »

Because the man is putting us down, brother. Let's toke up and complain but do nothing about it.

Not everyone is a caricature, you know. As a drinker I am not a sweaty, obnoxious, wife beating, car stealing lout.

As it happens, plenty of organizations and people are trying to do something about it. In America the movement has become incredibly powerful and credible. Legalization of marijuana is now a mainstream, feasible topic. NORML have adverts on national television. A government run website listed legalization of marijuana as the number one question to offer up to Barrack Obama. You know ... the leader of the free world. Mind you he still dismissed it as if it was the pipe dream of some ragtag group of shamans.

Of course you won't know any of this, because you don't actually know anything about this topic. You're just one of these people, like many in the thread, who has nothing to either gain or loose from pot smokers and legal weed, but sees fit to rain on their parade because you consider it alien and bizarre that someone would choose to smoke grass instead of just 'having a pint like the rest of us normal folk'.
But thanks for you're contribution to the thread :rolleyes:.

I hate to sound so crude about it but can those of you who want to keep Cannabis illegal just ... bugger off already? Legal Cannabis is very, very unlikely to have an impact on any of your lives unless it becomes state law to gas the homes of suburban Ireland with concentrated THC. Any negative effects - outweighed as they are by the positives [and they are outweighed] of legalization can be taken care of with tax euro. Why does it matter to you what I inhale? Can you not just ... piss off ... no?

How many of these same people got a bee in their bonnet when various pub and off liscence restrictions were brought in place?

Christ, at least you can get your drug of choice in a garage.

Wagon

If it was legalised, would people get addicted and smoke it constantly until their eyes bled out the back of their head? Yes, some would.

Alcohol is legal, do people drink constantly and get voilent and throw their lives away? Yes, some do.

But they aren't the majority.

Legalise the weed. "Gateway drug" my hole.

scientific1982

Used to smoke it all the time but makes me too paranoid now. However, there is no reason for it to remain illegal. Prohibition has never and will never work.

seensensee

Thread still ticking over

.... So it's still illegal and will remain so for another 50 years...Guess why ....
The Drinks industry as we know it would see their profits decimated, jobs at risk ect ect.
The church in rome is against it, morally wrong, evil sin ect ect.
Big pharma is against it, reduction in sales of anti depressants, tranquillisers, viagra ect ect.
The legal/investigative/penal professional complex want it to remain illegal as it keeps many in lucrative employment, provides purpose.

The above corporations,institutions and professions have a hugely significant influence in government legislative policy, Funny how a weed threatens their power?

ScumLord

seensensee wrote: »

Thread still ticking over .... So it's still illegal and will remain so for another 50 years...Guess why ....
The Drinks industry as we know it would see their profits decimated, jobs at risk ect ect.
The church in rome is against it, morally wrong, evil sin ect ect.
Big pharma is against it, reduction in sales of anti depressants, tranquillisers, viagra ect ect.
The legal/investigative/penal professional complex want it to remain illegal as it keeps many in lucrative employment, provides purpose.

The above corporations,institutions and professions have a hugely significant influence in government legislative policy, Funny how a weed threatens their power?

I don't think there's a big active conspiracy despite all misinformed propaganda, there are groups dead set against it that will conspire in any way to prevent rational drug laws but all they are to the government are voting blocks.

The real reason the government won't consider legalising it is because their self serving, as with everything else they prefer inaction to the possibility of alienating a particular set of voters. They always assume if they just go on as normal and don't try anything different the problem will somehow go away or move onto someone else. They are so afraid of making the wrong choice they make no choice and say they need more time.

That's going to be the problem with every subsequent government because they're all playing the same game, it's a popularity contest for them so we won't see any changes until this generation hits retirement age and the truth is common knowledge and accepted by just about everyone, that any government will consider risking their carers to make a change.

King Felix

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think there's a big active conspiracy despite all misinformed propaganda, there are groups dead set against it that will conspire in any way to prevent rational drug laws but all they are to the government are voting blocks.

The real reason the government won't consider legalising it is because their self serving, as with everything else they prefer inaction to the possibility of alienating a particular set of voters. They always assume if they just go on as normal and don't try anything different the problem will somehow go away or move onto someone else. They are so afraid of making the wrong choice they make no choice and say they need more time.

That's going to be the problem with every subsequent government because they're all playing the same game, it's a popularity contest for them so we won't see any changes until this generation hits retirement age and the truth is common knowledge and accepted by just about everyone, that any government will consider risking their carers to make a change.

Rem acu tetigisti.

seensensee

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think there's a big active conspiracy despite all misinformed propaganda, there are groups dead set against it that will conspire in any way to prevent rational drug laws but all they are to the government are voting blocks.

The real reason the government won't consider legalising it is because their self serving, as with everything else they prefer inaction to the possibility of alienating a particular set of voters. They always assume if they just go on as normal and don't try anything different the problem will somehow go away or move onto someone else. They are so afraid of making the wrong choice they make no choice and say they need more time.

That's going to be the problem with every subsequent government because they're all playing the same game, it's a popularity contest for them so we won't see any changes until this generation hits retirement age and the truth is common knowledge and accepted by just about everyone, that any government will consider risking their carers to make a change.

No it's not a conspiracy, more a matter of policy with intention. Maybe the majority of general public (in various voting blocs) are against the notion of recreational MJ but in a medical context it does'nt even become a voting issue unless the government are looking for an increase in votes, who would vote against it in a medical context? Not many and those who would vote against.... Why? commercial reasons?, moral reasons?, medical reasons?;)

Mr Benevolent

To answer the OP's question, almost everything the government doesn't tax is illegal.

[Deleted User]

The other thing about the 'gateway drug' thing is that you end up knowing dealers because you want weed. That's when the chance comes along to get something heavier.. If it were legal, you wouldn't get to know dealers so easy.

Also, when people smoke and think 'sure this is illegal and it's harmless, everything else must be fine aswell' and they go off and try it.
The rest of it is fairly harmless imo but just in the context of gateway drugs.

scientific1982

I agree with all your points apart from the first one. It can be mentally addictive to a small minority of people. But then again so can chocolate.

Another point that should be mentioned is that there are higher levels of pahs in the smoke of cannabis as opposed to cigarettes. A number of pahs have been identified as human carcinogens.

I_AmThe_Walrus

scientific1982 wrote: »

I agree with all your points apart from the first one. It can be mentally addictive to a small minority of people. But then again so can chocolate.

Another point that should be mentioned is that there are higher levels of pahs in the smoke of cannabis as opposed to cigarettes. A number of pahs have been identified as human carcinogens.

Marijuana, when smoked with tobacco, reduces the carcinogenic toxins of the cigarette.

seensensee

Marijuana, when consumed vaporized (through a vaporizer) produces little or no carcinogens....

"Recently the popularity of the vaporizer has risen dramatically. With the increased demand of medical marijuana, this product is highly sought among patients who desire to avoid the harmful effects smoking creates in the body. Smoke contains carbon monoxide and carcinogens, which are environmental toxins often linked to forms of cancer. Emphysema is another risk associated with smoking that vaporizer use will omit. Many people are quitting smoking and moving to the use of vaporizers because of these two benefits. Vaporizers are also popular devices to use for inhalation of herb combinations; contrary to popular belief, these units are not used only by those requiring medicinal marijuana."

http://www.mymarijuanameds.com/tag/carcinogens

[Deleted User]

Im with Bill Hicks on this..

Not only should it be legal, it should be manditory..

seensensee

For every easy rider there's a redneck with a shot gun, that's the difficulty. cannabis culture is what it is but prohibition makes it a whole lot worse.
It's the lies, misinformation, guilt by association and punitive draconian reparations that marijuana users must endure courtesy of malevolent government policy, it's those things that cause harm and stress in society.

An Individual grows a few cannabis plants, uses them in the privacy of own home, benefits from the experience, problems are solved, society benefits, If under Irish law it's a crime then it's a victimless crime? no no not so...
The police knock down the door and arrest the individual. they enter uninvited, wreck the privacy and cause great panic and alarm and proceed to suspend the individuals liberty and interrogate for information with which to prosecute in court, evidence of cultivation and possession will secure a conviction and our individual in addition to having equipment confiscated, will be obliged to pay hundreds if not to the thousands of euro's in fines and accrue a criminal record:eek:.

The only victim in the above scenario is the individual marijuana user. one has had privacy violated, personal effects effectively stolen, been unrealistically labeled "criminal" and been coerced into supplying money for the treatment.
Quite perverse how society manufactures some of its criminals from ordinary peaceful citizens.

seensensee

In an about face, the United Nations on Wednesday lavishly praised drug decriminalization in its annual report on the state of global drug policy.

The UN also makes a significant concession to backers of legalization, who have long argued that it is prohibition policies that lead to violence and the growth of shadowy, underground networks.

In its 2009 World Drug Report, the UN had little but kind words for Portugal's radical (by U.S. standards) approach. "These conditions keep drugs out of the hands of those who would avoid them under a system of full prohibition, while encouraging treatment, rather than incarceration, for users.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/un-backs-drug-decriminali_n_220013.html