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Marathon Training v2.0

Gringo78

So, 2010, time to start a new log and start training for my 2nd marathon attempt.

Just under 14 weeks to go until the Connemarathon so this log will record my training for my second marathon. Ran last years Cork Marathon in 3:26 off very inadequate marathon training so the aim will be to significantly improve on the time, get a bit more marathon experience and set me up for a sub 3 marathon attempt by end of 2010, probably in Dublin.

2009 was a good year, reduced my 5 mile time from 32:39 to 29:38 and 5km time from 19:54 to 17:56 and ran my first marathon. I didn't keep the training volume up as much as I wanted over the Nov/Dec period but I am still in good shape to start into marathon training.

Main problem with last years marathon training was no structure, I didn't understand the science behind the training and pretty much ran aimless junk miles with no great strategy. After the marathon, I went by a half marathon training program built around 1 longrun, 1 interval session and 1 tempo session per week and greatly improved my shorter distance times while gaining an understanding of my strengths, weaknesses and limitations. Due to family/work committments, I'll still not have a rigid plan this time around but rather try to ensure I acheive the following each week:

Tempo session - 6 miles. Presently at 6:20 pace. Will also do 1 in 3 sessions of 4 miles @ 6:10 pace. Will try to very gradually increase these over the next 12 weeks, I was running tempos of 6 miles @ 6:12 pace back in september but have fallen back since then.
Interval Session - Will stick to longer intervals as tend to get injured when I run too fast. So 1km, 1mile and 2km repeats, typically 5 reps, half the interval recovery, 5km to 10km pace.
LSR - will build this up to 24 miles, find it hard to get the time to do these so if time constraints allow only 16-18 miles on a particular weekend, will do some PMP miles as part, but will keep the long runs long and slow
PMP runs - will try to get some in during the week, seperate to long run, e.g 10-12miles @PMP, will not start these for a few weeks as want to reintroduce the intervals to my training first.

I've also started to run my recovery runs much slower and find this much more beneficial in keeping me injury free, so running 8min miles recovery rather than before I would have run 7:30 pace. Find it makes a big difference.

On my easy runs I usually run some hills and will include one session of hill sprints per fortnight as part of an easy run.

I found from my last marathon training that 2 weeks taper is sufficient for me so it'll be just under 12 weeks of hard training from now.

I managed to average 32mpw during last marathon training period, 30mpw then Jul/Aug/Sep and average has dropped down to only 20mpw over nov/dec so will need to up that again. Will aim for 50mpw but not sure I'll be able to get that. Now if I could get a treadmill into the house we'd be talking 70mpw easy so thats something I'm looking into at the moment.

Time Target - I've heard theres a big hill in connemara somewhere near the end so will not be attempting sub 3 but will aim for 3:05-3:10 which is an ambitious target for Connemara but a time I think I can run if training goes smoothly. Mallow 10 on Sunday (if it goes ahead) will tell me where I'm at a the moment (Target 63:xx. Ran 68:xx last year). I'll base my time target on the Mallow time rather than my Ballycotton 10 time (which is 3 weeks before the marathon) but running a good 10mile in Ballycotton 10 is also a big target for me.

I'll be watching my weight during training. Presently 75kg and would like to get this down to 72kg for the marathon. Was 78kg for the marathon last year so good that I'm already 3kg better off than at the end of training in June but would like to get this down more.

So starts Marathon Training v2.0 - I feel I know a lot more about my running than 12 months ago and one thing I have definetly learned from my own experiences and from reading other peoples marathon accounts - the marathon is not an animal easily tamed and has a propensity to bite you hard. But the rewards are great.

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Gringo78

17.46 in 5k tonight. pb by 8sec so happy with that and big improvement from 18.19 3 weeks ago but prob ran this one a bit too easy...avg hr 173 compared to 178 3 weeks ago. possibly was fatigue. ran too fast at start again 5.20 pace for first 400m. thought i was being conservative but obviously not. backed off to 5.45 pace but the course was very undulating so i forgot about the garmin after that and just tried to catch a group ahead. checking pace afterwards i slowed on km 3 but held 5.45 pace daily steady for last 2km. was surprised to see on the clock that i was going to break 18 easy because i felt i had run the race too easy which was backed up by the hr. very happy then with time all in all, a few more weeks of intervals and tempo and i'll be in good shape.

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

17.46 in 5k tonight. pb by 8sec so happy with that and big improvement from 18.19 3 weeks ago but prob ran this one a bit too easy...avg hr 173 compared to 178 3 weeks ago. possibly was fatigue. ran too fast at start again 5.20 pace for first 400m. thought i was being conservative but obviously not. backed off to 5.45 pace but the course was very undulating so i forgot about the garmin after that and just tried to catch a group ahead. checking pace afterwards i slowed on km 3 but held 5.45 pace daily steady for last 2km. was surprised to see on the clock that i was going to break 18 easy because i felt i had run the race too easy which was backed up by the hr. very happy then with time all in all, a few more weeks of intervals and tempo and i'll be in good shape.

Great going on the PB ! As you say there's more in the tank by the look of the avhr, ure setting the bar !

seanynova

well done on the PB, thinking you ran easy coming to the end of a 5k means you can only go faster! onwards and upwards (well....times downwards!)

Sosa

well done gringo...good time

Seres

great running , well done on the pb amd your traning isnt even entirely running focused at the moment !

theboyblunder

congrats on the PB gringo. great time!

Gringo78 wrote: »

17.46 in 5k tonight. pb by 8sec so happy with that and big improvement from 18.19 3 weeks ago but prob ran this one a bit too easy...avg hr 173 compared to 178 3 weeks ago. possibly was fatigue. ran too fast at start again 5.20 pace for first 400m. thought i was being conservative but obviously not. backed off to 5.45 pace but the course was very undulating so i forgot about the garmin after that and just tried to catch a group ahead. checking pace afterwards i slowed on km 3 but held 5.45 pace daily steady for last 2km. was surprised to see on the clock that i was going to break 18 easy because i felt i had run the race too easy which was backed up by the hr. very happy then with time all in all, a few more weeks of intervals and tempo and i'll be in good shape.

Gringo78

seanynova wrote: »

thinking you ran easy coming to the end of a 5k means you can only go faster!

Looking again at the HR data, I didn't run as easy as the avg HR suggests. I didn't have time for a warmup at all, literally barely got the runners on 2min before the start as the drive was longer than I had anticipated. So the HR was very low in the first 2k which skews the HR figures as I did get it up to >90%HRR in the last 2.5km so a little better than the 88%HRR avg which would have been more like my 10mile HR. Still was way off my max HR which I'd normally expect to come close to at the end of a 5k race. The fact that I did no warmup means I was probably better off that I didn't sprint towards the end as I would have been risking injury.

Thats it for races now until Ballycotton 5mile on Aug 26th. Hoping to be able to hold that 5k pace for the 5mile for Sub 29 so will be aiming for 5:30-5:45 paced intervals over the next few weeks. looking back at my log from last year I was hitting 4-5mile 6:15/6:20 paced tempos and 5:55/6:00 paced intervals before running 29:38 PB for 5 miles. Any sessions where I targeted 5:45 usually ended up falling off the pace after about 3 reps. Would need to be a good 10-15sec a mile faster then on the tempos and intervals for sub 29, so 6:05 tempo, 5:40 intervals which I think is doable.

tisnotover

The 6:05 paced tempo should be doable for ya, you were at that pace and faster in Ballycotton 10 this yr, its just a matter of getting back on the tempo horse !

Sosa

Looking forward to ballycotton lads...the intervals idid at the track last night are still in the legs...hamstrings are tightish...have not felt that since i started running...shows the pace was a bit much for me.

Gringo78

32km on the bike at avg pace 28kph. very hilly course and found it tough. did 1.3miles then off the bike, legs were a bit wobbly for 2 or 3 minutes but was then ok. race was definitely still in the legs this evening. couldn't adjust saddle height on the crap racer so was way too low

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

Looking forward to ballycotton lads...the intervals idid at the track last night are still in the legs...hamstrings are tightish...have not felt that since i started running...shows the pace was a bit much for me.

those intervals were done at some pace. Ballycottons a great race and will give you a taste of what the 10miler is like. should be a very competitive race, you won't find yourself isolated in it even at sub 29 pace.

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

those intervals were done at some pace. Ballycottons a great race and will give you a taste of what the 10miler is like. should be a very competitive race, you won't find yourself isolated in it even at sub 29 pace.

In hindsight i did them to fast,i was chasing down one fella on every one of them,on the last i flew out of the traps but he caught me on the last 50m...i was wrecked,but he is a minute better than me if both of us were at our best,so i was very happy to be that close.

With the new arrival coming late Oct,running will be curtailed as expected,so the Waterford half and more than likely the Dungarvan 10 are doubts...if that happens,i will try to get to ballycotton for a crack at sub 60 in March.
I could probably race those 2 but what i really mean is training will be down the tubes,so sub 80 at the half is a non runner...and the same for the dungarvan 10.
any chance i get i will be doing tempos and intervals....concentrate on the short stuff and then sub 2:50 at a marathon 2012

Gringo78

Thursday: Interval session. Plan was 5x1km @ 5:40 with 2min jog recovery. Did 4x1km @ 5:40 pace and then packed in the last rep after 700m @ 5:40 pace. Found this one tough and even though I quit on the last one, was happy as pretty much on track with the intervals and legs were tired today after race on tuesday and tough bike yesterday.

Krusty_Clown

Congrats on the PB Gringo. Great running.
5k race on Tuesday, and 5 x 1K intervals two days later at the same pace? Seems a strange session to do.

Gringo78

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Congrats on the PB Gringo. Great running.
5k race on Tuesday, and 5 x 1K intervals two days later at the same pace? Seems a strange session to do.

Thanks KC. How do you mean strange? i.e a session too close to the 5k race or too similar i.e 2 sessions of VO2max and that I should have gone tempo today?

Krusty_Clown

Actually both. Two sessions very close to each other, and also very similar sessions. Your interval sessions sounds like it would be perfect training for the race two days ago. Just wondering (out loud!) if you would have been better off either doing shorter and faster intervals, or as you suggested, a tempo run, or even a swim?

Gringo78

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Actually both. Two sessions very close to each other, and also very similar sessions. Your interval sessions sounds like it would be perfect training for the race two days ago. Just wondering (out loud!) if you would have been better off either doing shorter and faster intervals, or as you suggested, a tempo run, or even a swim?

well i knew i would not get to train again until monday so i felt forced to do something hard today so as not to fall behind sosa and tno. i picked the intervals cos i knew i'd fail today at the tempo, too much fatigue in the legs. if i could run tomorrow i'd have run easy today and done tempo tomorrow

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

i felt forced to do something hard today so as not to fall behind sosa and tno

The rebel is rattled !

Thats the power of the déise

Krusty_Clown

Lol. Fair enough, given your motives. I suspect that the one who wins may be the best rested, rather than the best trained!

Gringo78

monday: 10.2 miles at 7.45 pace avg with 2x2miles at tempo 6.25 pace in the middle. tempo miles felt tough after weekend of excesses but good cleansing.

Gringo78

tuesday lunchtime: 500m swim. Booked in for a lesson next week as my technique, especially legs, would seem to be very poor. I kick from my knees and my legs sink a lot so i think i could get a lot of improvement just by sorting that out.

Gringo78

tuesday pm: 30k cycle hilly at 30kph followed by 4.2 mile run off the bike at 7:10 pace. strangely i struggled to keep the pace DOWN on the run probably due to the cadence on the bike. Managed to adjust the saddle to the right height which made a huge difference

Gringo78

wednesday: 15min easy on spinning bike followed by 7 miles easy on treadmill incl 11x strides. avg pace 8:00

Gringo78

thursday: Interval session. Total 5.6 miles with 5x1km at 5:35 pace with 2min jog recovery between reps. Same session as last week but 5sec/mile quicker and completed it this time and HR's suggested was easier than last week, understandable though considering I was bit more tired last week...still a high training load last few days so very happy with these. Previous best equivalent interval session was 15sec/mile slower.

A bit of work to do on the tempo side of things but getting there.

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

thursday: Interval session. Total 5.6 miles with 5x1km at 5:35 pace with 2min jog recovery between reps. Same session as last week but 5sec/mile quicker and completed it this time and HR's suggested was easier than last week, understandable though considering I was bit more tired last week...still a high training load last few days so very happy with these. Previous best equivalent interval session was 15sec/mile slower.

A bit of work to do on the tempo side of things but getting there.

Nice going on the intervals, at 5:35min/mile pace too, good stuff !
The bike/swim training is looking good too, when is the triathlon ?

Krusty_Clown

Gringo78 wrote: »

thursday: Interval session. Total 5.6 miles with 5x1km at 5:35 pace with 2min jog recovery between reps. Same session as last week but 5sec/mile quicker and completed it this time and HR's suggested was easier than last week, understandable though considering I was bit more tired last week...still a high training load last few days so very happy with these. Previous best equivalent interval session was 15sec/mile slower.

Nice work Gringo. I did a similar session on Tuesday (5 x 1200) at the same pace (averaged at 5:35/mile) with 2:30 recovery. I have to do 1600's in a couple of weeks at the same pace, which is going to be tough.

Are you going to stick to the same number reps / distance / recovery, or swap them around?

Gringo78

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Nice work Gringo. I did a similar session on Tuesday (5 x 1200) at the same pace (averaged at 5:35/mile) with 2:30 recovery. I have to do 1600's in a couple of weeks at the same pace, which is going to be tough.

Are you going to stick to the same number reps / distance / recovery, or swap them around?

Thanks. Definitly swap them around. The only reason I repeated the session from last week was purely to see if there was a progression, I won't be doing the same one again twice in a row. I think that just 'trains' to do that particular session which is a bad thing. Will do 1200's next week, then 1600's then back to 800's the week of the ballycotton 5 (the 800's with longer recovery's, it being race week!)

As regards rep number, I try to run between 6 & 8k at interval pace (if time allows) so normally should be 8x800m, 6x1km, 5 x 1200, 4 x 1 mile at a minimum. However, if I can only get out at lunchtime, I end up having to cut it short and only get 5k's worth in as in the last 2 weeks.

Krusty_Clown

Gringo78 wrote: »

Thanks. Definitly swap them around. The only reason I repeated the session from last week was purely to see if there was a progression, I won't be doing the same one again twice in a row. I think that just 'trains' to do that particular session which is a bad thing. Will do 1200's next week, then 1600's then back to 800's the week of the ballycotton 5 (the 800's with longer recovery's, it being race week!)

As regards rep number, I try to run between 6 & 8k at interval pace (if time allows) so normally should be 8x800m, 6x1km, 5 x 1200, 4 x 1 mile at a minimum. However, if I can only get out at lunchtime, I end up having to cut it short and only get 5k's worth in as in the last 2 weeks.

I couldn't do those sessions at lunch time. I'd be wrecked for the afternoon. The plan I'm following swaps back to 800s every alternate week. So it's something like: 5 x 1200, 8x800, 4 x 1600, 8x800 etc.. Not sure of the logic, but the variety helped last year, as I wasn't dreading the next harder session all the time!

Gringo78

Saturday: 5 miles at avg pace 7:40...will mark it down as 'easy' even though I was pushing a buggy.

Gringo78

Sunday: 5.9 miles at avg pace 7:30 w/2 @ tempo 6:25. Running while OH cycled with the little fella so wasn't a very structured run and will maybe try proper tempo tomorrow evening. Watching Cork being humbled by the cats...not pretty.