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Street Fighter III - Third Strike Online Edition-released

FutureGuy

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/07/24/capcom-announce-street-fighter-3rd-strike-online-edition/

It's a long way off yet, but still cool!

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UberPrinny_Baal

Glad to hear you're coming around to my way of thinking Ramza.

I'm feeling too lazy right now to methodically quote your points, so I'm going short hand on this one:

"Got to the end game" I guess is MMO terminology I shouldn't use on a FG forum, but it means what there is to do in the game after you hit the level cap (raids mostly). The metagame of 3S doesn't sound very appealing to me because it's largely set in stone. Games that old don't have very big shake-ups in their metagame this far down the line, unless they get a sudden big influx of new players, which is unlikely without a rerelease/rebalance.

I can't comment on who is qualified to confirm/refute the "Chun/Yun/Ken" claim, because as I mentioned I know nothing about this game. You clearly do, so you're allowed to disagree with me, but the internet has definitely given me the impression this is the case.

I don't see the problem with easy inputs. It's the same thing as adding a rebalanced mode. It would be a 'concession' you don't want to make to attract the new players you desperately want. I don't see any reason why it's bad. Street Fighter at it's highest level isn't about being able to do the moves, it's knowing when to do them.

TvC has a SUPER easy input mode, which are similar to the Smash Bros special move commands, so I was able to teach it to my girlfriend (because she's played smash but not SF) and have fun matches with her. She even went on to destroy my nephews (who are GOOD at SF) using the easy inputs. How is more accessibility bad?

It's also just the principle that matters, 11 years on and they want to change it? Little silly to me. Will rebalancing it really make a difference?

It did in HDR (which I still don't understand why you dislike).

A pad Zangief just won Evo 2010 and shook up the metagame like whoh. People on SRK are bitching that the character they placed at bottom tier is overpowered. It's awesome.

On a smaller anecdotal level, Sirlin's design philosophy in HDR was to remove the mindless abusable stuff.

In our recent ST tourney, I won the first match of all my sets. In the two sets I lost my opponents switched to other characters, and then beat me with Balrogs Throw Loop and Vega's Walldive/knockdown mixup. It was frustrating to lose to them and both of these were toned down in HDR to make them less dominating.

I might not have won if it was HDR, but I definitely think I would have done a little better.

The fact that the top winning strategies in 3S are all set in stone, and will be done to perfect new players on day 1 of release I think will be MASSIVELY discouraging to them getting into the game.

I DO agree with you that only the top of the top players should be involved in the balancing, were it to happen, because they'll find the things that need nerfing.

But I disagree they should be the ones to decide if a remixed mode NEEDS to exist, because gamers on the whole are a bunch of whiny bitches who don't like change.

Sisko

Uber you need to read this thead :

http://shoryuken.com/f2/why-hate-hdr-230262/

Its massive but anyway yeah. I don't play ST. I mean I've played it, but not 'properly' ie not spend hours playing it online/offline against people that know how to play.

So yeah, heres me thinking HDR would be great and all the ST people will love it and generally it'd be the go to game for some SF2 ness (I rather 3s and SF4 so I never really play it )

But look around you. All our SF2 fans in this community even, its always original ST. Never HDR.

Elitism? Maybe I dunno , but its there. The same will happen with 3s. Unfortunately.

Just look at ramza's posts. Truth is a lot of people will have his reaction. Even if they make the perfect 3s and its fantastic. People will react like that. Especially if they're regular SRK posters.

I don't really have any answers to your why questions though but its a pattern and its there. I don't fully understand it either.

Personally I love 3s. Always will. Its unbalanced alright. And I don't like how whiffing normals gives you meter. If they tweaked the balance and changed that aspect of it. Personally I'd like that.

But in truth I know people will go apeshit. I know Ramza's veins are popping reading what I just said about removing meter gains from wiffing from normals

I see where both sides are coming from , I mean ramza's being overly SRK by the way he posts but its not unreasonable to say you should at least be an experienced player before having such a definite opinion on it.

And by experienced I mean play the damn game the way you play sf4. For a few weeks. Not play it 3 times and try to play it like its a different SF game and make your judgments from that.

But anyway

GorySnake wrote: »

Im gonna stop posting in this thread til this debate is over, everyone is debating, Rebalance: Yes/No. I was debating whats the point in releasing this at all.

Well I see your point in that, PC is the best place to play online games. And 3s is already playable on pc in a better online environment then a console can provide. So why bother playing it on a console?

Well theres still many people out there who are fucking retarded when it comes to PC's to be blunt. So it'll get attention from them for one.

Two its the ease of access. It'd be very handy to have 3s on your console of choice there and ready and theres the hope that it'll have some graphical tweaks that make it look nicer.

You won't have to download a dreamcast emulator to play training mode.

I'll certainly be buying it. its one of my fav games of all time and chances are if I get into it I'll prob still end up mostly playing on GGPO but it'll complement that nicely.

DooM wrote:

Often times playing 3S I have felt I have been beaten by the mechanics of the game itself.

You have gotten some really odd impression of 3s. Honestly I don't think you've really played 3s yet. I think you need to give it a better chance.

Btw every time I jump over a guy cause I know he's going to ultra and the game auto corrects him and he still gets me, I feel that regarding SF4.

I then instantly think "well this is just sf4, I should have known it'd auto correct me and kill me and not done it"

The reason I do this though is cause for 2 years I was getting people with this in 3s.

And before the non 3s players jump up and say "but auto correct was in 3s" no it was not like that, not like sf4.

So you wanna talk about a game doing things that the player did not input, being beaten by the mechanics of a game, sf4 is much worse.

3s is a rush down game , there is room for zoning , just like there is room for rush down in sf4. When I moved from 3s to sf4 I had to learn to zone more and rush down less, you have to apply that the other way around when playing 3s.

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

I've no real interest in a rebalancing as I feel that would split the sf III scene especially from the jap players.

Imo in the end this is the best, anti tweaking argument I've read cause its pretty much the case. Even though I'd still rather the tweaks I said before.

Placebo wrote: »

Well let me tell you this, i've been playing 3S before you and when 3S was only available on XBL, i was a regular on that part of SRK. Matchmaking and general drivel talk, strategy section was pretty active.
That part of the forum has been dead for a few years now ! The old threads dont even show until you change the option.

That's cause online play on pc kick the **** out of it all and it moved to there. Not cause 3s died.

If anything, its only really been in the past year that 3s got a lot less popular. It was sf4.

With 2df and ggpo it was at the stage where if you were new to street fighter or new to playing online, 3s was the game you played. It was only the 'elitists' that were playing SF2 etc. 3s was actually the most accessible game.

Then HDR and SF4 came out and it changed all that.

I

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

A straight port onto 360 would see a massive player base boost, whether it is completely remade or not.

Agree.

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

If a game company was to say to me "Hey dawg! We is remaking your favourist game EVA! And we gonna put some new stuff in there, and change up some of the old stuff!"
I would say "That's awesome! There is a chance, however slight, you might just make my favourite ever game better! If you mess it up, that doesn't matter either, because I still have the original."

You seem to be of the opinion though, that if Capcom made "3S HDR", not only would this be terrible, but it would somehow ruin the original 3S.

This is what I don't understand.

I think the worry from people from Ramza's point of view is this:

If 'my' 3s comes out the way it is now , on the consoles , then it'll be great cause there'll be loads of new and returning players to play and it'll generally boost the population of players, playing the game I love, giving it more life.

If its not 'my' 3s and rather a modified 'dumbed down version' (anything but what I'm playing now) then I won't play it, I'll keep playing 'my' one. However now any new or returning player won't come to play my 3s , they'll play the other one. And I'll even LOSE players from my scene, who'll move to the other 3s, and I'll only be left with like minded players, a number that'll diminish over time, as numbers grow higher for the new 3s. Ultimately doing a lot of damage to 'my 3s scene'.

At least that's how it seems to me.

Azza wrote: »

The whole HDR is filth is abit bizzare.

It is to me too but thats the way it is. I don't play ST enough to understand it so I don't argue. But I would have assumed if we were gonna play SF2 in this community it'd be HDR. Yet I know all the SF2 heads here will go mad and demanded ST, but not only ST but some other crazy argument that I don't understand involving different feckin versions of ST :confused

(remembers the 1st DOC thread)

Scavenger XIII

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

A remixed version would be like a big journey reset button. The metagame wouldn't be already decided before we started, we'd get to discover it for ourselves.

This is a very good point, and probably the reason we want a rebalance whether we realise it or not.

Ramza

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Mine would generally always be "Why not?"

As I said I think we're kind of exactly opposite in mindsets.

I think bringing "need" into this is kind of a non-point, considering we're talking about recreational computer games. None of us "needs" that. We didn't need HDR, that's true, we also didn't need ST, CE, WW or Street Fighter 1. We need air, food and water and that's it.

Really this comes down to "want". Some people "wanted" HDR, you didn't. What I don't get is why it makes you so mad that their wants were fulfilled.

You would have essentially been happier had they been disappointed, and you were non-changing. This just seems kind of mean.

Why not try to improve what's not perfect? You already said that no game is

I don't see how you could possibly disagree. Can you check to see if it's missing for me? :P

Absolutely. Except for SF2:CE, SSF2, SSF2T, SF2HDR, SA2, SA3, SF EX2,
SF EX2 Plus, SF EX3, CvS2, CvS2 EO, TvC:UAS, SF3 2I and SF3 3rd Strike.

Kneecaps said something similar, and I don't actually see any point or reason here.

"It will piss people off."
"Why?"
"Because it will split the community."
"Why?"
"Because it will piss people off"

So on and so forth.

I empathise with you here. Smash Melee is my favourite fighting game, but it's old and we don't have a scene here. My game still has tonnes of leveling up to do before I could consider myself great, but I can't do that in stagnation. There is absolutely no reason for people to not go back and play these old games, but there's also really no reason why they should bother. Large amounts of people don't just spontaniously decide to pick up old games and get awesome at them, that's not how the human mind works. They need hype, or a re-release, or news of a sequel.

HDR got me back into Street Fighter, plain and simple. I wouldn't be posting on this forum if it wasn't released. A remixed game WOULD bring in new players, as you already said. You want new players, but you don't want to make any concessions to achieve that, even if that concession is to only allow a game mode to exist you never have to play.

Okay, that's a fair reason.

You're sort of underestimating the instant accessibility to a lot of information the internet gives people. I know very little about 3S, but I know if I wanted to get anyway decent, I'd have to overcome the fairly significant skill barrier involved, and I know if I actually got to end game, there'd be nothing but Chuns, Yuns and Kens waiting for me. There are people posting in this very topic that have played it way more than me and longer than you that are complaining about it's accessibility. It's massively discouraging to be at the pre-newbie stage of a game, and already know the path laid out ahead of you and know you don't like the sounds of the destination. If 3S was simply rereleased I know it wouldn't be my thing.

Even YOU who are steadfastely against the very NOTION of a rebalance, have said you would be happy with a couple of changes. So you're more in favour of it than you're willing to admit.

A remixed version would be like a big journey reset button. The metagame wouldn't be already decided before we started, we'd get to discover it for ourselves.

THAT'S appealing.

I'd buy that.

I know we have opposite opinions, and you're absolutely entitled to yours; but you haven't presented (or quoted from SRK) a single actual reason for being against this other than "I don't like change"

In fact, deep down, you sound like you might be a little bit in favour of it.

I'm kind of in the middle of the why and why not thing at the moment to be honest, maybe was a bit too stern before. Check my latest post

I'm just talking in terms of one game, and I know need really has no relevance here but just in this here one example ultimately imo 3s doesn't need a rebalance but I guess at the end of the day the people get what the people want

I'm not mad that people's wants were fulfilled, I'm not mad HDR either, I'm just a little annoyed over the principle is all and I guess it's just these feelings that cause me to post like I do. I don't see a point in making HDR when the game was how many years old? It's just that giant time frame I don't get

I wouldn't of been happier if HDR turned out terrible it'd just be a "told you so" moment.

Like the why and why not arguments the "try rebalance a game which is not perfect" and "leave a game alone that is not broken" are really the same thing. It just goes in a circle pretty much and it's all personal preference.

I guess if they do rebalance it having the original is ok given A).The playerbase is not big atmo/mainly on GGPO (3S doesn't get a lot of arcade play these days contrary to popular belief) and

Having the original as a backup or personal preference for others. The big question is how the rebalance will be accepted and which one will become a standard?

I mean one standard as for each game series/platform to use. SF2 = ST, SF3 = 3s, Marvel = MVC2, Alpha = A3. Nothing wrong with playign the others, and they do get play, but for tourneys etc there always needs to be one standard I think you missed my point. I just fear the rebalance would make arguments like with ST about which is best

You can empathise with me so do you see my point? It's not a harsh point at all. I guess it's different with Smash Melee but I don't agree with the "I really want to play this game, but, even though it's on PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast, AND emulated online for free with GGPO netcode, a good enough playerbase and tonnes of resources online to learn, I just don't want to! I want a rebalance". This is all I'm trying to say, people can learn it now. If Capcom release an arcade perfect port to XBL/PSN, they are giving everyone a chance to get into this game, even though it's mad old I still think it is the best FG ever made. Bringing it to the spotlight like this on PSN/XBL also removes issues people may have with GGPO, ports etc, you know the like

3s has no significant skill barrier to be honest Dave and it's that idea I'm trying to stomp out. It's like any other FG and just takes dedication. I again disagree with the Yun/Chun/Ken thing, I don't know what you mean by "got to the end game", could you elaborate?

That kind of attitude is lazy talk to me (not saying you!), but that approach annoys me and I think it's said people with that approach pushing for a rebalance. People are over thinking and not playing is all

I am for a few changes yes, wouldn't mind like I said top tier super buffs, Genei Jin too strong/builds too quick and Chun needs one stock on her super.

You can discover the game for yourself right now. The idea of the journey ahead already being laid out is silly imo. If everyone thought that way there would be no players at all who get stomped on all the time

There are people posting in this very topic that have played it way more than me and longer than you that are complaining about it's accessibility

Who are these people? DooM doesn't play 3s on a serious level as he knows himself and if he played before it was maybe only dabbing. Farz is playing since what year (correct me please farz), 2004? In around same as me (2003 offline and I was crap). I remember playing with farz a lot back in the day. The things farz complained about, are as he knows I have stated, silly (bar the Yun/Chun issue I agreed with). Same goes for DooM and he knows my stand on his claim on the game. I can't take credibility from someone who doesn't play and lists something like that, sorry DooM (no offence personally)

I have posted several reasons why I am against it (or seemingly maybe was 100% against it). I feel changing the game now will make no difference at all to accessibility, people can play it now as is. It might upset a lot of players like you can see here yourself and on SRK. It's also just the principle that matters, 11 years on and they want to change it? Little silly to me. Will rebalancing it really make a difference?

I'd buy it too

Also, to expand on my latest post, I have had a little change of heart on the whole topic. It's between, for me, if the game rebalance gets more people that is awesome and I am all for getting the game more hype and noticing, but I don't want to see what happened with HDR happen to 3s. It will kill me. I believe the game is fine input wise. I don't want to see easy inputs for 3s. I'm afraid Capcom will completely butcher some things that don't need butchering. It's a risk I personally wouldn't take and I seem quite defensive of it as you can see. It also brings me back to my point of if Capcom want to make a rebalance who will they listen to? New players can't really give an input their tbh, they should ask exp tourney players and world class players imo. I'm not trying to sound elitist but if Capcom want to rebalance 3s to the best of their ability they should go about it the right way.

To be completely honest with everyone a rebalance does sound interesting, I would like to try one out and maybe give feedback if it was possible. The idea of changing the game sounds cool, but not changing it to make it easy mode, if you get me. Keep the game mechanics and inputs the same. And Capcom take input from best sources if they can

UberPrinny_Baal

Ramza wrote: »

Capcom want to remake 3s? My answer is why? One simple word ; why?

Mine would generally always be "Why not?"

As I said I think we're kind of exactly opposite in mindsets.

Ramza wrote: »

Why did ST need HDR? No game is perfect but I'll be damned if 3s or ST or any other game is broken! 3s as a whole does not need a complete remake.

I think bringing "need" into this is kind of a non-point, considering we're talking about recreational computer games. None of us "needs" that. We didn't need HDR, that's true, we also didn't need ST, CE, WW or Street Fighter 1. We need air, food and water and that's it.

Really this comes down to "want". Some people "wanted" HDR, you didn't. What I don't get is why it makes you so mad that their wants were fulfilled.

You would have essentially been happier had they been disappointed, and you were non-changing. This just seems kind of mean.

Ramza wrote: »

It's a matter of principle to me ; why fix what's not broken?

Why not try to improve what's not perfect? You already said that no game is

Ramza wrote: »

I don't agree with the "you still have the original" idea.

I don't see how you could possibly disagree. Can you check to see if it's missing for me? :P

Ramza wrote: »

There should always be one standard.

Absolutely. Except for SF2:CE, SSF2, SSF2T, SF2HDR, SA2, SA3, SF EX2,
SF EX2 Plus, SF EX3, CvS2, CvS2 EO, TvC:UAS, SF3 2I and SF3 3rd Strike.

Ramza wrote: »

Making two games will ultimately **** everything up for a lot of reason, generally 3s HDR is not 3S, it will be a different game altogether. You'll then have a clique, like you can see now, of experiences players who prefer original 3s and new players who like HDR 3S.

Kneecaps said something similar, and I don't actually see any point or reason here.

"It will piss people off."
"Why?"
"Because it will split the community."
"Why?"
"Because it will piss people off"

So on and so forth.

Ramza wrote: »

My question is why can't everyone just play original 3s as it's been around ten years now and there's no reason not to. It's just madness to me.

I empathise with you here. Smash Melee is my favourite fighting game, but it's old and we don't have a scene here. My game still has tonnes of leveling up to do before I could consider myself great, but I can't do that in stagnation. There is absolutely no reason for people to not go back and play these old games, but there's also really no reason why they should bother. Large amounts of people don't just spontaniously decide to pick up old games and get awesome at them, that's not how the human mind works. They need hype, or a re-release, or news of a sequel.

HDR got me back into Street Fighter, plain and simple. I wouldn't be posting on this forum if it wasn't released. A remixed game WOULD bring in new players, as you already said. You want new players, but you don't want to make any concessions to achieve that, even if that concession is to only allow a game mode to exist you never have to play.

Ramza wrote: »

A lot of top players or hardcore players don't use GGPO ... I know I, and personally loads others who play on GGPO a lot would pay for this game!

Okay, that's a fair reason.

Ramza wrote: »

You don't need a rebalance to attract new players, how would they know the difference

You're sort of underestimating the instant accessibility to a lot of information the internet gives people. I know very little about 3S, but I know if I wanted to get anyway decent, I'd have to overcome the fairly significant skill barrier involved, and I know if I actually got to end game, there'd be nothing but Chuns, Yuns and Kens waiting for me. There are people posting in this very topic that have played it way more than me and longer than you that are complaining about it's accessibility. It's massively discouraging to be at the pre-newbie stage of a game, and already know the path laid out ahead of you and know you don't like the sounds of the destination. If 3S was simply rereleased I know it wouldn't be my thing.

Even YOU who are steadfastely against the very NOTION of a rebalance, have said you would be happy with a couple of changes. So you're more in favour of it than you're willing to admit.

A remixed version would be like a big journey reset button. The metagame wouldn't be already decided before we started, we'd get to discover it for ourselves.

THAT'S appealing.

I'd buy that.

I know we have opposite opinions, and you're absolutely entitled to yours; but you haven't presented (or quoted from SRK) a single actual reason for being against this other than "I don't like change"

In fact, deep down, you sound like you might be a little bit in favour of it.

Ramza

chopperbyrne wrote: »

They can, but choose not to.

Hmm yeah, exactly, but why? This is all I'm saying and the logic seems weird to me but whatever

chopperbyrne

Ramza wrote: »

I personally don't think it needs a rebalance is all I'm saying. But I dunno if I really would mind. My point was can't people just play the game now?

They can, but choose not to.

Ramza

I personally don't think it needs a rebalance is all I'm saying. But I dunno if I really would mind. My point was can't people just play the game now?

Dunjohn

In Ramza's defense, SF3 isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as SF1. Same two characters hog 50% of top-flight play each there, it's madness.

Ramza

Placebo wrote: »

nobody here said they wont play the game. [infact they said they would if it got rebalanced]
your argument was that only the experienced/elitist people have a say

thus my RELEVANT analogies.

Nothing wrong with people playing the game but as it stands now if you don't play the game properly you shouldn't get a say in the whole. how can one comment on what they never experienced? the whole yun chun thing is annoying and i would welcome nerfs to their supers np. it's easy to comment on what you dont like as broken though, esp if you dont play the game

dont see whats stopping people from learning now, tell me what is? at this moment in time? nothing. so why wait for a rebalance to learn. i dont get it

my argument was that people who are exp with the game deserve credibility. never mentioned elitist. obviously the consensus will not be 100% , and that everyone has their own ideas about what is fine and what is not, in the whole playerbase but i bet it would be 90% plus, like i said a few pages back

Placebo wrote: »

ALSO everyone here has played the game I.E watched the film :pac::pac::pac:

not to a decent extent. only me and you to be honest

Also,, just talking to Azza now, I'd like everyone to read this paragraph. He posed the question to me, would I mind, if say it was around 1999 or afterwards and 3s was getting a sequel with the obvious nerfs and buffs, new features etc, like all new additions get, (WW-CE-HF, SFIV-SSFIV etc), I said not at all, I wouldn#t mind because it would just be the next installment and no one would know better. Because the game would of only been out for a year or two. I think that as it stands now 3s is out since like what, 1999? It already has/had a solid playerbase and is pretty much accepted. To me changing the game now is silly and pointless, just because of the time frame and since the game is not very popular anymore

I want people to understand my harsh opinions stem from my love of the game and because like I said the game is already established at this stage. You can't hold anything against me for having that point of view. I feel at this stage after its out so long only the players should get a say in the rebalance. But tbh we all know that is not going to happen. But to be perfectly honest with everyone in my heart of hearts a rebalance might actually help to attract new players but all I can see is bad things at this stage. Just because it's 11 years on since it's release, it's a little sketchy. But to be perfectly honest I wouldn't mind if Capcom somehow discussed with the playerbase and released a rebalance and wanted feedback? Would it really be worth it at this stage is all I am saying? I think it should be left alone personally as I have so argued but a rebalance at this stage now that I think of it might not be a bad thing but to me not the best thing either.

When 2nd impact got 3s people didn't complain. But say if 2nd impact was accepted as the standard and last game for 11 years then decided to be changed you can see the negative response already. I just think because of where it stands now a rebalanced is silly. All in all I mean change is good but at this stage you're really taking a giant risk Capcom. I mean the game isn't very popular anymore so I guess nothing bad can really come from it. I don't know tbh now that I think of it

I know the game is flatout dead at this stage bar GGPO maybe, and I do think now that a rebalance would maybe help attract new people. But if new players saw the game for the first time they wouldn't know anyway, that's all I was saying. It's just the principal I don't like a little

Placebo

Ramza wrote: »

DooM is not an active/3s player

Can't compare different platforms, movies/OS/games, all different. Those analogies are irrelevant

It's only sense that the people who know and play the game get proper says in the matter, if you don't play why would you care?

As far as movies go I believe the people who have seen the movies get say over those who don't? Is this not common sense? (even though ultimately it is the director choice)

Now that I look those analogies are agreeing with me :pac:

And OS and software is all based on user feedback

nobody here said they wont play the game. [infact they said they would if it got rebalanced]
your argument was that only the experienced/elitist people have a say

thus my RELEVANT analogies.

ALSO everyone here has played the game I.E watched the film :pac::pac::pac:

Ramza

Yeah but to me why would they rebalance it? It doesn't need it. Does no one understand what I am saying? New players will be attracted either way IMO if it gets a revamp and enough media coverage. Not that it will revive the game or whatever. If you don't play the game or ever did before then why would you care/mind? Newer players can't feel certain element are an issue because they don't play the game

Like I said a million times it does not need a total rebalance. It wont make a difference. Id people wanna play they will play. If anyone thinks 3s is broken I have to laugh, I'm sorry

hmm how about common sense vs irrelevant points :pac:

I can see where people are coming from trust me but rebalancing a game for cash is silly. Esp ones that don't need it. The game never was too popular and only for a while afaik. I had never even heard of 3s when I did, but I thought it looked cool so I learned it. That's what I mean when I say newer players have no universal standard because they never played it. I didn't look at a match of Yun and go I'm not learning this game

Voa

I demand this thread be renamed to Ramza VS Forum; Fight for the future (of the online edition)! 'cause now even I'm gonna bite.

* Those who currently play the game will keep playing as they want. For newer players who feel certain elements are an issue, these could be fixed/altered/whatever and it could get an appropriate mode name, like say, Scrub Mode. Personally, I quite like the game as is. But maybe enough people who might consider buying the game if certain things were changed would fork out the cash, resulting in step 4 (profit)? And isn't that the point of any business? It's not about keeping the hardcore fans happy, it's about the money, Lebowski (to quote an awesome film).

Ramza

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Doom played this game in arcades before you even knew your hadoukens from your shoryukens

DooM is not an active/3s player

Placebo wrote: »

so only people who make movies have a say on sequels and remakes?
only people who are programmers have a say on how the next OS should operate ?

i can draw a hundred analogies, why do you keep bringing this silly point up

Can't compare different platforms, movies/OS/games, all different. Those analogies are irrelevant

It's only sense that the people who know and play the game get proper says in the matter, if you don't play why would you care?

As far as movies go I believe the people who have seen the movies get say over those who don't? Is this not common sense? (even though ultimately it is the director choice)

Now that I look those analogies are agreeing with me :pac:

And OS and software is all based on user feedback

Placebo

Ramza wrote: »

You still salty? :pac:

You just have a **** connection farz

posted on page 5
are you revising the thread ? i feel a thesis coming up. :pac:

I think it is very sensible but imo only the people who play the game deserve a say if there is a rebalance

so only people who make movies have a say on sequels and remakes?
only people who are programmers have a say on how the next OS should operate ?

i can draw a hundred analogies, why do you keep bringing this silly point up

K.O.Kiki

Doom played this game in arcades before you even knew your hadoukens from your shoryukens

Ramza

I don't mind at all a nerf to top tier supers but you have to remember farz was listing that Urien, Makoto were broken and need fixing and also DooM had the wrong idea about the game based upon playing it for 15 mins

I disagree with the whole buff low tier as it wont make a difference tbh. IMO Capcom wont opt for a few canges they will want a whole re balance if they are goign to do it

I think it is very sensible but imo only the people who play the game deserve a say if there is a rebalance. No offence to anyone but in this case it makes sense to me. I don't take credibility from other people who are not exp with the game. Urien and Makoto broken? Needing to know how to parry? All nonsense

Scavenger XIII

I'm going to try and avoid re-igniting this whole thing too much, but when did anyone say the game needed a "complete remake" as you put it?

You said a few small changes would be acceptable, right? Surely that still falls under the category of "balance changes"?

Subtle tweaks to top tiers godly supers (like those you yourself suggested), everyone's (somewhat) happy, Bob is your fathers brother, we can all go home. :pac:

Dreddybajs

animaX wrote: »

Not trying to bring back the rebalance argument (i think it should be laid to rest now lads) but i thought it a real shame that Tin didn't pick his favourite character at the Stunfest final vs Tokido. Instead he went with ken for obvious reasons.

This is nonsense, he plays Ken in every solo tournament, he plays Ibuki in every team tournament.

Ramza

Placebo wrote: »

full daigo parry

You still salty? :pac:

You just have a **** connection farz

GorySnake

As for Ken/Yun/Chun syndrome, that just seems to be how America plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk

K.O.Kiki

I probably worded it wrong before -- I *CAN* do QCFx3 -- I just *HATE* doing it when it's been shown that QCF, F, F works just as well.

Ramza

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Hey Ramza! You're a cool guy, and I have no beef with you

you're absolutely being Elitist.

What fascinates me is our seemly opposite view of things like this.
If a game company was to say to me "Hey dawg! We is remaking your favourist game EVA! And we gonna put some new stuff in there, and change up some of the old stuff!"
I would say "That's awesome! There is a chance, however slight, you might just make my favourite ever game better! If you mess it up, that doesn't matter either, because I still have the original."

This is what I don't understand.

3S is stand alone. It always will be. It can't be changed.
A remixed mode wouldn't appeal to you obviously, so you could just play the classic mode. What I don't get is why its inclusion as a separate optional mode would make you so angry?

The way I see it, a release of 3S that changes NOTHING won't even appeal to the hardcore 3S crowd, because they can already play the game (free) on GGPO (for free) with an established community of equally skilled players.

Would you really pay money for a game identical to what you already have, to play it on an online service that costs money to use (which could be worse than the one you're already using)?

Dave I have no beef with anyone on these forums at all, I'm sure everyone knows and especially DooM since he is a mod that debates don't cross personal boundaries. I am merely arguing my opinion and never would I want anyone to believe that anyone was taking it personally! You are all bang on lads in person

Maybe I am being elitist because of my sheer love for FGs/this game, but that's how I'm making my stand

Well it's very simple, to me anyway (and to a lot of others) ; Capcom want to remake 3s? My answer is why? One simple word ; why? Before anyone plays the "afraid of change" card please, spare me :pac: Why did ST need HDR? No game is perfect but I'll be damned if 3s or ST or any other game is broken! 3s as a whole does not need a complete remake. As I said before there are a few things that I wouldn't mind seeing changed, but all in all if not I don't mind at all. I know my matchups well enough to work around said things (re check my first post for said things)

It's a matter of principle to me ; why fix what's not broken? I don't agree with the "you still have the original" idea. There should always be one standard. 3s HDR is not needed. Making two games will ultimately **** everything up for a lot of reason, generally 3s HDR is not 3S, it will be a different game altogether. You'll then have a clique, like you can see now, of experiences players who prefer original 3s and new players who like HDR 3S. My question is why can't everyone just play original 3s as it's been around ten years now and there's no reason not to. It's just madness to me. Also for tournaments too, people will argue over which version to use. It just annoys me

A lot of top players or hardcore players don't use GGPO a lot, or even don't like it. I know online is online and PSN/XBL wont be any different. Some people also have trouble setting up GGPO and hardware specs and ports etc are all big factors. IMHO releasing 3s with new modes/online system will attract new players, trust me. And yes, I know I, and personally loads others who play on GGPO a lot would pay for this game! Because if Capcom make a new standard with new modes/better online, and here is the key part arcade perfect, you will attract old players and also new. You don't need a rebalance to attract new players, how would they know the difference

Like kneecap was saying, and I agree, xbox 3s back in the day was crap with xbl, barely any players and no one owned the game compared to the ps2 version. Can you honestly say that, with the xbox port which was crap, along with GGPO that everyone has really gotten their chance? In no way am I trying to deny the game is dead, not at all! But releasing on PSN/XBL will do only good things

Scavenger XIII wrote: »

I couldn't be bothered arguing with Ramzas absolute brick wall stance on the matter.

That's your choice, if you don't want to argue your own opinion it's OK. I'm just against the idea but like I said I am open minded person

animaX wrote: »

Instead he went with ken for obvious reasons.

Ken is Tin's main in 3s, contrary to popular belief. Tin could of done just as well with his Ibuki imo.
Ken is not a counterpick to Chun, but yes, it could of happened that Tin would of felt more confident with his Ken against Tokido. That said, I know Tin is a good enough player to have raped Tokido with the right matchup knowledge (could of used Ken also because maybe he was shady on the Chun match). Using this one example to show proof of Ken/Yun/Chun syndrome is silly imo. I'm not denying there are a lot of Ken/Yun/Chun but there is just as much players of other characters too and if you can win you can win

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I'm starting to wonder if SRK just rubbed off on Ramza too much

LOL! I just feel the same way, I actually checked SRK to see what the mentality was like over thee, after arguing here for a bit, and saw some guys I used to play with and people I just knew. 90% felt the same so I found it interesting. Got nothing to do with SRK rubbing off on me I am just voicing my opinion

No offence Kiki but that's silly not being able to do 3xQCF. This is the mentality I don't like. And as far as changing one or two things I would be all for it (as I said before). It's just a total rebalance I don't get. The game is fine and doesn't need a complete change. What is it with people not wanting to just play the game as is? Do you honestly think there would of been some backlash from the playerbase if 3s was broken or had any kind of huge issues people were unhappy with? The idea of making a rebalance to appeal to new players doesn't make any sense. Or the idea of making a rebalance because the game is old. Huh? Is there a certain amount of time that has to elapse before a game can be ****ed with?

K.O.Kiki

I'm starting to wonder if SRK just rubbed off on Ramza too much.

I'm one of those guys who hates QCF x3 for Rekkas. I think SF4 did it right for Abel -- you do one QCF, then you hold/press F and press Punch/Kick for the last 2 hits. It's simple & elegant.
I suggested this.

They went mad, and accused me of fostering a Capcom mindset where suddenly all Supers were QCF~F+ a single button.

Trying to get anything through their hardcorier-than-though mindsets is starting to feel like an exercise in futility.
ANY change is instantly pounced on with cries of it breaking the ENTIRE (meta?) game.

A-Trak

animaX wrote: »

i thought it a real shame Top Tier Tastic that Tin didn't pick his favourite character at the Stunfest final vs Tokido. Instead he went with ken for obvious reasons.

Fixed your post, as it was lies.

animaX

Not trying to bring back the rebalance argument (i think it should be laid to rest now lads) but i thought it a real shame that Tin didn't pick his favourite character at the Stunfest final vs Tokido. Instead he went with ken for obvious reasons.

Scavenger XIII

I believe I'm the one who first popped in wondering if there would be a rebalance, yes I think it's a good idea, yes I've played a fair bit of 3S (not THAT much like, but I know my way around it well enough) and no I couldn't be bothered arguing with Ramzas absolute brick wall stance on the matter.

Blinn

Ian McTetly wrote: »

All this 3s talk has got me kinda hype tbh, I'm gonna bounce on GGPO here if anyone wants a few games?

Yes, let's do it! I'm blinnsrj on ggpo. You should get on irc too for easier organisation of games.

Ian McTetly

All this 3s talk has got me kinda hype tbh, I'm gonna bounce on GGPO here if anyone wants a few games?

I really hope they don't change the music! My mind has already been blown, Capcom don't need to try and 1up themselves!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOrAH0P2zPM

Doctor DooM

Blinn wrote: »

Personally I hope they remix the music. Jazzy NYC 99 is nice and all but let's get a 2010 version with real instruments instead of casio keyboard synths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSzPbO9DFcg

I think of all the stuff in 3S if you changed the music that would definitely annoy the crap out of the most people