Murder set to be legalised by xmas

Don't know if anyone has pointed it out yet but OP, "murder" is a pre-planned crime.
If, IF there was to be a charge on a homeowner, it would be manslaughter in the second degree probably.
I reserve the right to be a plonker and wrong!

Absurdum

This is gonna rule!!!!!!!!!!!!

inforfun wrote: »

Sorry, but if someone breaks into my place and tries to steal my stuff, he or she will be fair game.
I worked and paid for my stuff. No one is goin to take that away from me while i am watching.

No need to apologise. At least you're honest in your opinion that larceny should warrant the death penalty. Ah, takes me right back to the 18th century...

Biggins wrote: »

If, IF there was to be a charge on a homeowner, it would be manslaughter in the second degree probably.
I reserve the right to be a plonker and wrong!

I don't know about that. If the intruder was no threat to the homeowner, and was found not to be armed in any way, then a murder charge would be plausible in my opinion. Difficult to prove though, plus the fact that lots of Irish people seem to get a hardon for people shooting intruders, so would be difficult to get a conviction in front of a jury.

Pauleta

Biggins wrote: »

Both illegal for the public to have in Ireland officially.
(But yes, they are out there to buy)

Did a bit of googling. Ammonia in a water pistol seems to be big in countries such as ourselves. That would seriously feck somebody up :cool:

Carlos_Ray

Einhard wrote: »

No need to apologise. At least you're honest in your opinion that larceny should warrant the death penalty. Ah, takes me right back to the 18th century...

I don't think intruders were wielding contaminated syringes in the 18th Century.

If I am living a peaceful productive life, and some little toe-rag enters my house he automatically becomes a threat to the safety of me and my family and therefore I become a threat to him.

Ten dead scum bags is better than one injured citizen.

inforfun

Einhard wrote: »

No need to apologise. At least you're honest in your opinion that larceny should warrant the death penalty. Ah, takes me right back to the 18th century...

You assume that every burglar now gets killed?

If someone breaks in i will not let him get away if i get the chance. Doesnt mean i ll slice of his head and put it on a stick.

And while the death penalty is a bit over the top for larceny, i somehow also dont agree with the slap on the wrist they currently seem to get away with, if they already get caught.

caseyann

inforfun wrote: »

True... I am not stupid enough to bring a knife to a gun fight

But if the odds are even i wont be holding back.
Fortunately, i have never been in such a position and can only hope i ll never be. So i can only imagine what i would do. Reality might be that i ll be just frozen to the floor and let them walk out of the door.

Thats why i said would be interesting to see the stats on home burglaries, and what is percentage of people actually coming across them and what if any violence occurs.In the most it is pretty low isnt it?
If they dont threaten you or come at you best thing to do is let them walk out the door.If someone tried to rob me i would hand it over there you go take it good luck.

paddyman

About time!!.

Scumbags breaking into someones house deserve all they get.

Rediculous thread title for such an important bill

Absurdum

inforfun wrote: »

You assume that every burglar now gets killed?

If someone breaks in i will not let him get away if i get the chance. Doesnt mean i ll slice of his head and put it on a stick.

And while the death penalty is a bit over the top for larceny, i somehow also dont agree with the slap on the wrist they currently seem to get away with, if they already get caught.

the system has failed

death is the answer!

citizen_p

so it will make it safe for us too have a fight....then a burglar will kill somone, or just win the fight and the resonable force bit will go out the window... :pac:

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Ten dead scum bags is better than one injured citizen.

You seem to have a rather callous, and cavalier attitude to human life. And scumbags are citizens too. Have you watched Robo-Cop today by any chance?

Einhard wrote: »

I don't know about that. If the intruder was no threat to the homeowner, and was found not to be armed in any way, then a murder charge would be plausible in my opinion. Difficult to prove though, plus the fact that lots of Irish people seem to get a hardon for people shooting intruders, so would be difficult to get a conviction in front of a jury.

Technically by definition "murder" is pre-planned.
You have a point in that a home-owner might pre-plan to kill any future person that might break in.
However as most will not do this but still maybe go too far, the lesser charge of manslaughter (in the second degree) might be applied on very rare occasions more so by a prosecutor, who is seeking to get a more successful penalty placed upon a person.

I reserve the right to be a double-plonker and be wrong!

Biggins wrote: »

Technically by definition "murder" is preplanned.
You have a point in that a home-owner might pre-plan to kill any future person that might break in.

Hmmmm, how exactly do you define "pre-planned" though? I mean, should a homeowner take a shotgun, and say, shoot the burglar from the top of the stairs, then one could argue that has been planned in advance. Doesn't manslaughter refer more to accidental homocide, or that carried out in the heat of the moment?

questionmark?

Einhard wrote: »

You seem to have a rather callous, and cavalier attitude to human life. And scumbags are citizens too. Have you watched Robo-Cop today by any chance?

You forgot to mention the cavalier attitude scumbags have to law abiding citizens and there property.

Btw the thread title is a piss take i hope either that or the OP is worried he'll receive a walking stick up his arse next time he breaks into some auld ones home!!!

Einhard wrote: »

Hmmmm, how exactly do you define "pre-planned" though? I mean, should a homeowner take a shotgun, and say, shoot the burglar from the top of the stairs, then one could argue that has been planned in advance. Doesn't manslaughter refer more to accidental homicide, or that carried out in the heat of the moment?

Manslaughter can be pre-planned too in the heat of the moment.
Example: Me and Santa get into a fight over the presents and I go leave the room and grab my gun, come back and shoot him.
(Poor Santa!)

Manslaughter in the second degree might be where me and Santa actually fight on the spot without my leaving the room and I still kill him in anger, in the heat of the moment.
(Again poor Santa - I really have it in for him!)

The above are just simple examples and I reserve the right to be a twat and triple wrong!

Biggins wrote: »

The above are just simple examples and I reserve the right to be a twat and triple wrong!

You killed Santa?!:eek:

That's more than a triple wrong!!

Einhard wrote: »

But they're not necessarily targetting an individual or a family when they break into a home. They're targetting the valuables in the house. Generally speaking, burglars will try to make as little as noise as possible, in order not to alert the homeowner to their presence. Are you really saying that, should you catch a burglar in your kitchen, and there is no discernible threat to yourself, then you should just point your gun at him, and blow his brains out?! That's cold blooded murder no matter how you parse it.

If I own a gun and wake up at 4am to find a man in my bedroom or living room I am going to shoot him. Likewise I'd use a baseball bat or a knife or hammmer. 'But your not necessarily talking about . .wah wah wah . ' 4am and finding a strange man or strange men, probably armed and definitely criminals after having invaded your home is not the time for technicalities or for 'but that's not necessarily wah wah wah'. Most likely your knees will be shaking your throat dry and your heart going like a machine gun out of fear for your self and your gf/partner/kids etc. Any burglar ever gets shot in someones home had it coming as far as I am concerned. The excuses and whatif's are just that - braindead fluffy 'lets all have a hug' liberal excuses for scumbag criminals and their scumbag behaviour.

I actually think this law is not going to let any dogs off the leash in terms of reactions to burglars - what it will mean is that AFTER the fact, ie in the days afer an incident homeowners who were terrorised and victimised into a reaction more than likely won't be penalised for their reaction.

Einhard wrote: »

You killed Santa?!:eek:
That's more than a triple wrong!!

So true. :pac:

Morlar wrote: »

The excuses and whatif's are just that - braindead fluffy 'lets all have a hug' liberal excuses for scumbag criminals and their scumbag behaviour.

You're an idiot. This kind of nonsense doesn't even deserve a reasoned response.

Carlos_Ray

Einhard wrote: »

You seem to have a rather callous, and cavalier attitude to human life. And scumbags are citizens too. Have you watched Robo-Cop today by any chance?

No, but thanks for the idea.

We're not all born equal, lets just put that idealistic cliche to bed. Some of us are born into hardworking families and communites. Others are born into a society of crime, exploitation and low morals. Over time, the latter have developed into a sub-species. They have inherited physical and mental traits from generations of wasters and scum. Don't even pretend you can't identity a scumbag from his facial features. Do I believe the life of a scumbag junkie criminal is worth as much as that of a upstanding citizen??? Of Course not... the fact is its not.

Citizens improve society, pay taxes, educated their children in mind and soul. Scum are a drain on society , they contribute absolutely nothing. When these little scrouts have the audacity to break into my house after MY taxes are already paying for their habits, then as far as I am concerned they have gone too far. Society would be far better off without them thats the reality, whether you like to admit it or not.

Einhard wrote: »

You're an idiot.

No, actually. You are the idiot.

Morlar wrote: »

No, actually. You are the idiot.

For having a difference of opinion? On a forum that thrives on differences of opinion? Oh, but then I s'pose I'm a fluffy headed, brainless liberal PC do-gooder or whatever...

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

We're not all born equal... the latter have developed into a sub-species. They have inherited physical and mental traits from generations of wasters and scum... Do I believe the life of a scumbag junkie criminal is worth as much as that of a upstanding citizen??? Of Course not... the fact is its not.

Society would be far better off without them thats the reality, whether you like to admit it or not.

Says it all really. Interested in eugenics by any chance? Let's just steralize the lot of them. Even better, just exterminate them...

zuroph

Einhard wrote: »

You're an idiot. This kind of nonsense doesn't even deserve a reasoned response.

Morlar wrote: »

No, actually. You are the idiot.

Can't we have more than one idiot?! :rolleyes:

Einhard wrote: »

For having a difference of opinion? On a forum that thrives on differences of opinion?

No, not for that. For holding the opinion that if a scumbag, conciously targets a person in the dead of night, breaks into their home and terrifies that woman or man out of their wits - that said scumbag is entitled to the benefit of some kind of cosmic karmic doubt on the basis of the following pro-criminal excuses you have so far offered on behalf of said scumbag criminals;

a)

But they're not necessarily targetting an individual or a family when they break into a home.

Einhard wrote: »

They're targetting the valuables in the house.

A completely optimistic and retarded assumption to make. IF you are the man of the house it is not really an assumption you should be relying upon. If you are going to rely on that assumption and you are ever in that situation then god help you.

c)

Einhard wrote: »

Generally speaking, burglars will try to make as little as noise as possible, in order not to alert the homeowner to their presence.

Another unrealistic moronic assumption. Whether someone is making lots of noise, stoned off their tits or calmly moving from room to room in your home is irrelevant - you find them there then you have a right to respond with violence as far as I am concerned.

TheInquisitor

Morkarleth wrote: »

Oh aye, just continue to medicate the problem without treating the underlying causes.

Morkarleth if time has taught us anything its that some people just have no interest in earning an honest living. Some people out there are just scum

zuroph wrote: »

Can't we have more than one idiot?! :rolleyes:

One or two or even Three there are no limits