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Child Item

Luas Red Line (Junkie & Wino Bus)

blooper

I had a dream last night. I got the red line luas to work and I didn't have one druggie annoying me at the ticket machine asking me for spare change for the haaawspital or any piss stinking winos sitting beside me.

Ah! if only reality was the same.

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murphaph

This is why I will not move back to Ireland to rear my kids there. My GF (German) is deluded that Ireland is a "nice place" but that's because when we visit there I always have the use of a car and I know how to avoid a bad area...but if we were to move there it would mean her coming into contact with that sort of carry on and I don't want to expose her to the dregs of Irish society: the previous poster is right...a PC bleeding heart liberal agenda has led to a situation where society is paralysed and scumbags are not just belted over the head with a baton by a 6' tall brick sh!thouse culchie Garda, which is EXACTLY what should happen to them.

Drugs are heavily responsible for all this though, make no mistake. In Dublin a lot of people still don't realise how bad the heroin problem is (and with it all sorts of other legal and illegal drugs that heroin addicts take to "take the edge off" etc.). The sentence for ANY for of drug dealing (even by addicted users) should be 20 years in prison with NO POSSIBILITY of early release. Drugs alone are responsible for something like 70% of crime in Dublin: it would be money well spent to build a few large prisons in the middle of nowhere with limited visiting and start throwing drug dealers in them for a long time. It would take a while but eventually the message would sink in that getting involved in drugs WILL lead to a long spell in prison. At present there simply is NO STRATEGY to tackle the heroin problem in Ireland, and so it's getting worse.

Most people in Ireland are decent, hard-working etc. so there's no good reason that a minority can terrorise the rest of us.

Judgement Day

murphaph - I couldn't agree more with your post. I made the romantic mistake of coming back to the 'Land of Saints & Scholars' to start a family, even though I knew it was more myth than reality. Keep well clear. I remember as far back as the early 1980s listening to the Pat Kenny radio show and thinking that Ireland was going to be an awful country to grow old in and how right I was. Back then the same pussy footing drivel about dealing with the drugs problem was still being talked about and look where that has led. If one thinks about it you even have to have a degree of pity for the drug dealers etc. today, as many of them were not even born then and grew up in a culture of government laissez faire where there was an acceptable level of poverty and crime. This problem should have been cracked down on decades ago - serious criminals should be interned without trial, anybody bringing drugs into the country should receive 20 years hard labour with no remission and life imprisonment for drug barons with no remission - personally I would put them in front of a firing squad. It won't happen with our shower of useless, hand wringing, buck passing, politically correct politicians. I'm gone at the first available opportunity . Way off topic I'm afraid but the Luas problems and drugs and crime are so linked together.

shamwari

murphaph wrote: »

This is why I will not move back to Ireland to rear my kids there.......

Most people in Ireland are decent, hard-working etc. so there's no good reason that a minority can terrorise the rest of us.

I don't blame you staying where you are, particularly as the long term prospects for your family are probably better off there too. This country is heading into the abyss in more ways than one.

Judgement Day wrote: »

shamwari - sounds like you had a very unpleasant experience and I trust you wrote to the RPA and Veoila about it as well as posting here?

I went one better: I reported the old lady being threatended to the Gardai. I gave my name and address and told them I would identify the perpetrator if they could locate him from CCTV. However they wouldn't entertain my complaint because it had to come from the injured party.

I didn't bother with Veolia & the RPA because all I'm doing is reporting matters after the event. And I doubt there is much they can do if a small minority of their passengers are under the influence of one or more substances. Similar previous correspondence with Irish Rail was pointless, so I suppose its a case of once bitten, twice shy....!

mikemac

murphaph wrote: »

Drugs alone are responsible for something like 70% of crime in Dublin:

I'm interested to know if you are including common drugs like alcohol and tobacco here.
Cigarette smuggling is rife.
And Dublin or every town in Ireland has late night fights outside nightclubs and chippers fueled by alcohol. Leads to other crimes like domestic abuse or drink driving.
Something overlooked in the whole head shop debate or shouted down anyway

Are these drugs included in the 70% you've posted?

Nevyn

Buses haven't been the same from when they got rid of the conductor.
Plenty of times growing up I saw the conductor keeping an eye and chucking 'undesirables' off the bus or just being a general deterrent to scumbags of all ages.

Some route will run well with out them others they should be brougth back asap esp on double deckers where the driver has enough to be doing with out trying to keep an eye upstairs. Most of them already know what a joke the revolving court system is and that if they attack someone on a bus who tells them to stop their antisocial behaviour they will get away with it. We need proper transport police.

Jumpy

eia340600 wrote: »

I have been to London many times and know that when you walk into an underground station outside of peak time your risking, at the your wallet.

I used to live there. This is not the case. All trains and all platforms are on camera, there are emergency pull handles every 10 metres or so and they move along anyone causing trouble at any hour. They generally leave buskers though.
There is security all over the place.

Chinasea

You can do what you like in Ireland as long as you are menacing and have the uniform (tracksuit) to prove it. The rest of us just pay to prop these guys up.

Time to T N S = trap neuter spay

murphaph

feelingstressed wrote: »

I'm interested to know if you are including common drugs like alcohol and tobacco here.
Cigarette smuggling is rife.
And Dublin or every town in Ireland has late night fights outside nightclubs and chippers fueled by alcohol. Leads to other crimes like domestic abuse or drink driving.
Something overlooked in the whole head shop debate or shouted down anyway

Are these drugs included in the 70% you've posted?

No, but typically people aren't addicted to alcohol (there are alcoholics, but it is not the norm to become addicted to alcohol, even with regular use, whereas with heroin it is the norm to become strongly addicted) and tobacco addicts generally don't resort to crime to fuel their habit, so it's "their problem" so to speak.

Amtmann

BenShermin wrote: »

Finally, the majority of Irish people need to stand up to the minority every single day.

shamwari wrote:

A few lads and I made eye contact with each other and I could see that all of us wanted to give this scroat a piece of our minds. I got off at James and left this disgraceful pair to themselves.

It's all very well to say that the civilised should stand up to the track-suited barbarians, but shamwari's comment says a lot. All that most civilised people would do would be to exchange disapproving glances to each other in such a situation. Why? Because when choosing to get into an argument with scum (which is what the track-suit wearer was), you are potentially opening up the gates of hell. They are so uncouth and uncivilised that they are capable of anything, and unless you, as a regular joe, are willing to face the unpredictable consequences of standing up to an out and out scumbag, then you're better off just keeping quiet. Yes, I know that that is unfortunately part of the problem, but suppose shamwari had stood up to the scumbag on behalf of the woman and been viciously assaulted, could he have counted on aid from those other men with whom he had exchanged those disapproving glances? I don't think he could have.
These people, the scumbags in their tracksuits, have a completely different perception of the world to more urbane types. We simply cannot relate to one another. Certainly one of the reasons I left Dublin in 2003 and had a distinctly bad impression of the place was because of the brutishness that I saw every day there when living on the northside.

AlekSmart

Shamwari:

I reported the old lady being threatended to the Gardai. I gave my name and address and told them I would identify the perpetrator if they could locate him from CCTV. However they wouldn't entertain my complaint because it had to come from the injured party.

I didn't bother with Veolia & the RPA because all I'm doing is reporting matters after the event.

Thaedydal:

Buses haven't been the same from when they got rid of the conductor.
Plenty of times growing up I saw the conductor keeping an eye and chucking 'undesirables' off the bus or just being a general deterrent to scumbags of all ages.

Two interlinked quotes from different posts which I would like to address from a Busdrivers perspective.

The "after-the-event" element is most important as it reflects the vacuum curently existing in the Public Order on Public Transport field.

My own employer has invested millions of € in fitting it`s entire fleet with high quality,high resolution Digital CCTV equipment.
It actually is State-of-the Art in terms of quality and adaptibility.

I have little doubt but the RPA/Luas CCTV is of an equally high specification.

However I question the reasoning behind much of the current CCTV fad.
An experienced Busdriver can usually spot many "situations" in the delevopmental stage,long before the stack actually blows.

All of the Dublin Bus double deck fleet have some form of Upper Saloon monitoring,whether by means of a mirror based periscope or the more modern dedicated CCTV camera.

It is this active monitoring by the Busdriver which,I believe,requires improvement and prioritization if any real progress is to follow from the CCTV investment.

All too often however,the Drivers Monitor is blurred or non-functional or the periscope mirror glass is cracked or otherwise obscured.

This then leaves the Driver totally unaware of developments upstairs or at the rear of the bus.

In order to do my job properly I need to be aware of the dynamic of whats happeneing on the bus,how many are standing,who`s sitting where and much else besides.

Sadly,the management pre-occpation is with the RECORDING element of the CCTV,when post-incident,the footage will be downloaded and pored over in an attempt to detect and identify a miscreant or to confirm an on-bus incident.

From my personal perspective,I,as the Busdriver am in-charge of the Bus.
My passengers have paid their fare in the expectation that I will carry out my duties in an expeditious maner and I as a consequence have an expectation that my employer will enable me to do so.

We need to perhaps retreat a little from the absolute faith which many wish us to have in CCTV as a panacea to the worsening problems on Public Transport.

The actual solution is to empower both Staff and legitimate passengers to reclaim their usage of Public Transport as their right by virtue of their enforcement of,and compliance with,the few regulations of travel and the Law in general.

It might sound a bit hi-falutin,but as we are currently seeing with Luas,all the technology in the world is useless in the face of base savagery and ill-intent.

Zero Tolerance for anti-social behaviour should mean just that.

trellheim

Just a small one : when we mention specific instances here of bad behaviour on the LUAS last week I did seem to see a slightly higher instance of security - seems like lurking managers from RPA or Veolia. So do report specifics - time,date, station, incident. I have no idea how Veolia customer care is motivated but I'm positive that if it isn't reported then nothing will happen.

KD345

You would think reporting the incident would be the right thing to do, but at this stage I really do question if it's worth the bother. I have rang the Gardai before which did help, and have also tried the Luas contact number, but this doesn't work after 7pm. There is little point reporting these incidents the next day as the damage is done and there have probably been a few similar incidents since.

The other thing to remember, which has been mentioned here, is that the Veolia staff are fully aware of the problems. There is no shortage of customer service staff working on the Luas, and I'm sure the drivers report the incidents too, so it really should not be up to the passenger, especially when there are numerous posters on platforms and trams telling us "we're being watched" by CCTV.

Even if the Gardai, customer service or security arrive and remove these junkies, they just get the next tram. These people don't fear anybody, they just shout abuse, cause a scene and know that nothing serious will happen them.

Yesterday morning a junkie girl boarded the tram and pushed her way through the area just behind the driver area. She fell onto a man who gave her a look of "do you mind" - this look was enough for her to start screaming all over the tram at this man. She moved down the carriage and continued her abuse to everyone. This was at 9am with young children on board. I'm actually surprised now to have a Luas journey without having to witness this type of behaviour either at stops or on the tram.

mikemac

This thread is on the red line

Does the Green line have any similar issues.
I don't get it so I don't know, I wouldn't think it was be as bad at all

yoyo

feelingstressed wrote: »

This thread is on the red line

Does the Green line have any similar issues.
I don't get it so I don't know, I wouldn't think it was be as bad at all

The green line is totally different clientelle, although I witnessed a bloke getting the sh!t kicked out of him on the dundrum platform, never seen that violence on the red line!

Nick

foggy_lad

Drivers should report all incidents but it could happen that they are discouraged from doing so as it might reflect badly on the service. Also at heuston station one Saturday there was only one out of the three emergency call buttons working obviously damaged by scumbags to stop genuine passengers from reporting them. The customer care line only operates office hours and I think from experience the cctv monitoring is only done as and when someone presses an emergency call button. So there is no protection offered to customers by veolia.

Nevyn

AlekSmart the thing is your driving, yes you can check your camera and periscope alond with the rest of you mirrors but your still driving, if something kicks off and your doing through a busy intersection you cant' stop the bus right away, best you can do is maybe hit an automated warning, and then eventually pull over while you radio for assitance which could be a very very long time coming and in the mean time they get off the bus.

As for the cameras, are all of the ones in the current dublin bus fleet finally real?
How good are they in terms of a good visual identifitcation?
And even if that is gotten it is sod all for the garda to go on and don't help in tracking people down.

If the cameras are up to scratch then why don't we seen in the courts as charges are taken?

You are right that the presence of the bus driver can go along way to a safer journey but alot just stay behind thier screens and drive. I have made complaints and had drivers shrug it off when I have had to move with my kids away from anti socail behaviour and there is no properly connection to the garda and the chances of charges being pressed is close to zero and scumbags know it.

trellheim

Here is what LUAS.ie has to say on Safety :

Stay Safe with Luas
Luas is a welcome part of Dublin's development. Let's make sure we all stay safe.

Safety Features
At Tram Stop
- CCTV
- Emergency Help Point located beside Ticket Machine. Press and speak directly to Luas control room.

On Board Tram
- CCTV
- Emergency Button beside door. Press and talk directly to tram driver.
- Emergency Handle beside door. Pulling this handle will bring the tram to a stop.
- Security Personnel*
- Luas Revenue Protection officers*
- Tram Driver
CCTV downloads can be requested from Luas Customer Care Freephone 1800 300 604 and info@luas.ie. Please note a request must be made immediately particularly if it relates to an incident. The type of information which is required is location, time, Luas line and date.
The issuing of CCTV follows guidelines as laid down under data protection legislation and in accordance with good practice.
* Luas Security and Revenue Protection Staff are not on board every tram.

the Passenger Charter has this :

Luas should provide you with the utmost levels of safety and security.

* All Stops and all trams are equipped with CCTV cameras.
* Customer Service Officers will be present throughout the day and until the last tram.

....

and

* Our Customer Care Centre and internet site will be available to assist you, to listen to you and to respond to your needs.
* We will answer all written comments within one week.
* Call Luas Customer Care Freefone on 1800 300 604
Open Monday – Friday 7am – 7pm and Saturday 10am – 2pm
* Email: info@luas.ie

There is no information given on the types of LUAS security, i.e. black STT vs orange/red Veolia, also whether STT are operating on behalf of RPA or Veolia

There is scandalously little information for passengers regarding their journey safety, and what to do if one of the incidents described in this thread occurs.

The one and only decent doc on either rpa.ie or luas.ie was

this

http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Health%20and%20Safety/Luas%20Safety%20Report%202009.pdf

Go figure.

I didn't know there was a

Gardaí representatives attend Veolia’s Safety Forum, a twice-yearly event at which antisocial behaviour issues are reviewed and discussed

where are the minutes from this ?

AlekSmart

AlekSmart the thing is your driving, yes you can check your camera and periscope alond with the rest of you mirrors but your still driving, if something kicks off and your doing through a busy intersection you cant' stop the bus right away, best you can do is maybe hit an automated warning

........

The key for me is to try as far as possible to ensure that the elements which kick-off do not get to that situation.
This is as much about observation as anything to do with Driving.
It is about the fullest interpretation of BUSdriving as opposed to simply Driving.

.......

As for the cameras, are all of the ones in the current dublin bus fleet finally real?
How good are they in terms of a good visual identifitcation?......

The CCTV system is indeed live and the quality is excellent.
Visual ID is of the highest order.

.....

You are right that the presence of the bus driver can go along way to a safer journey but alot just stay behind thier screens and drive. I have made complaints and had drivers shrug it off when I have had to move with my kids away from anti socail behaviour

Sadly,it could be argued that the decision to encapsulate the Busdriver was in fact sending a message to the Savages that with no Conductor or other Staff on board the Busdriver had no role to play in the progress of the Journey.

It has long been Company Policy that the Busdriver remain in the cab with the screen in place whilst requesting assistance via radio.
This policy,I suspect,has more to do with employers liability laws than anything else.

The Transport Operator is just that,it is not,and cannot be a law enforcement agency.
However I believe that putting a strong unambigious message out there concerning the abuse of it`s vehicles or staff has to be an integral part of the process.

At this stage however,we exist in a society which has in the main abandoned the Crime=Punishment principle and instead operates a far more vacuous arrangement which involves forensically trawling through each criminal act in order to first find an excuse for the behaviour before avoiding the imposition of any stricture which might be seen as excessively harsh.

This works wonders for psychology based careers and for other areas of academe involved in the science of criminology,but rather sadly it does very little for the "ordinary decent passenger" on our Public Transport Systems.

The key here is one word......FEAR.

Fear of violence.
Fear of litigation.
Fear of being regarded as overtly harsh.

It is perhaps worth debating the reality that the Fears outlined above simply do not exist for those committing these acts on a daily basis,but instead these fears now dictate the pace and content of our working and commuting life.

Nevyn

Having seen two 'Happy Slapping' incendents on the 39 and the 39N (in the last 18month) where 2/3 gentlemen started a row with a make passenger who didn't know them which esclated into a brawl which one of them was vidoeing on his phone,
and seen the driver pull over and state the garda were on the way and the perps record all they wanted and then get off the bus laughing and in the case of the 39N mooning it.

I don't think I have an unjustifed fear, there was also last monday the delightful mother with a 2 year old who was so out of it that she was rowing with the child's father on the top deck, to the extend of lashing out at him and the driver either didn't notice or care not even when she managed to let the child fall down the last two steps of the stairs.

And then the following Wednesday 3 'lads' on thier way in to get thier methadone roaring on the top deck, one of whom couldn't stand with the ammount of drink taken
and fell a top of other passengers and then tried to start a fight and this was early afternoon.

The only time in the last 6 months I have seen a driver intervine was one which I know to see who was new and from Sudan, he had no issue puling over, leaving the driver cab and coming up stairs to put a gang of teen in thier places and tell them to stop kicking seats and y'know what they did, but I am sure that as soon as he is briefed to company policy or has his first serious threath to him or his health that will stop.

Frankly I have two kids if I end up in an altercation and end up being charged with assulat and being fined or ending up with a suspended scentnce or worse not suspended then that effects me and my family to a point which I shouldn't have to take such actions.

Lets have transport police tied in with a proper metropolitan police and if needed conductors on certain route as well as inspectors.

foggy_lad

What use are transport police when the courts let the scumbags off because the state fails to proceed because the dpp knows there is nowhere to house these criminals so doesn't bother to pursue them?

mikemac

Thaedydal wrote: »

Lets have transport police tied in with a proper metropolitan police and if needed conductors on certain route as well as inspectors.

Yes to a transport police but nay to a metropolitan police.
I don't see why the cities get a new dedicated service while rural garda stations are being closed

Amtmann

feelingstressed wrote: »

Yes to a transport police but nay to a metropolitan police.
I don't see why the cities get a new dedicated service while rural garda stations are being closed

Ah come on now. It's a matter of population density.

AlekSmart

The only time in the last 6 months I have seen a driver intervine was one which I know to see who was new and from Sudan, he had no issue puling over, leaving the driver cab and coming up stairs to put a gang of teen in thier places and tell them to stop kicking seats and y'know what they did, but I am sure that as soon as he is briefed to company policy or has his first serious threath to him or his health that will stop.

Thaedydal,I`m not certain as to whether the Busdrivers ethnicity is relevant to his actions,or perhaps it may be an avenue worth exploring..IE: the relative disinterest of the native Irish in the destruction being wrought around them ?

Anyway,that`s for a different thread?

The company policy is absolutely clear on this situation.

The Driver must not leave the cab to intervene in any inter-passenger dispute.

From the company perspective that is a non-negotiable standing instruction.

If this mans local management become aware of him leaving the cab,he will be given "advice" on the Company`s Policy.

This procedure will formally record the company`s instruction to him individually and thus in the event of a future incident which might result in injury to the driver he will be On-His-Own in every sense.

This type of stuff is not of the Company`s making but rather it is necessary to protect it from all manner of subsequent claims at law.

The real issue,as many regular travellers note,is the total lack of interest or committment to addressing the ever worsening problem of violent and threateneing behaviour on Public Transport.

That problem cannot and will not be solved by the Bus or Tram Driver acting alone.

Nevyn

AlekSmart wrote: »

Thaedydal,I`m not certain as to whether the Busdrivers ethnicity is relevant to his actions,or perhaps it may be an avenue worth exploring..IE: the relative disinterest of the native Irish in the destruction being wrought around them ?

I would say his lack of being made numb or immune to such carry on, not being brought up where this is considered acceptable behaviour, then again neither was I.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The company policy is absolutely clear on this situation.

The Driver must not leave the cab to intervene in any inter-passenger dispute.

From the company perspective that is a non-negotiable standing instruction.

If this mans local management become aware of him leaving the cab,he will be given "advice" on the Company`s Policy.

This procedure will formally record the company`s instruction to him individually and thus in the event of a future incident which might result in injury to the driver he will be On-His-Own in every sense.

This type of stuff is not of the Company`s making but rather it is necessary to protect it from all manner of subsequent claims at law.

The real issue,as many regular travellers note,is the total lack of interest or committment to addressing the ever worsening problem of violent and threateneing behaviour on Public Transport.

So bus drivers are instructed to stay in the cab no matter what and not to put themsevles at risk not matter what is happening on the bus and they have very little if any duty of care to the passengers.

No wonder people don't feel safe when the person in charge of the bus is not in fact in charge of the bus.

AlekSmart wrote: »

That problem cannot and will not be solved by the Bus or Tram Driver acting alone.

Agreed but the retreat and lack of support and joined up services leaves scum to think they can do what they want on the buses and for the most part they do and get away with it.

AlekSmart

So bus drivers are instructed to stay in the cab no matter what and not to put themsevles at risk not matter what is happening on the bus and they have very little if any duty of care to the passengers.

The instruction to stay within the cab is,I would imagine,to ensure the Company is not exposed to claims both from a Staff member or a person alledging excessive use of force by a Staff member.

I don`t believe any company outside of the security industry would actually require Staff to get stuck-in to a flare up situation...the trick is in ensuring the flame is extinguished before the clients board...:)

As for duty of care,I would again suspect that the Duty of Care expected from a Busdriver in the performance of their duty would largely centre around their actual driving and controlling of the vehicle.

As we are now told in relation to seeking to have a passenger fold a buggy to facilitate a wheelchair user..."The Driver having made the request,has no control over the customers response".

Thats about it in a nutshell....I drive the Bus...It`s neither possible or desirable for me to simultaneously be a phsychoanalyst to my passengers.

The Bottom-Line is that all passengers boarding a Bus SHOULD be made fully aware of a set of Rules & Regulations governing their carriage...No ambiguity about it,either accept them or seek an alternative transport method.

murphaph

It was a sad day they decided that encapsulating a bus driver was the best course of action to tackle assault.

It was the wrong message to send out: Assaults on bus drivers should have just been met with 10 year jail sentences, not with plexiglas screens. The judges are all still way out of touch though, being chauffered in and out of the Four Courts from Dalkey or Killiney will do that though :mad:

The judges need to start imposing the maximum sentences and making a point of calling for more prison spaces.

Amtmann

murphaph wrote: »

This is why I will not move back to Ireland to rear my kids there. My GF (German) is deluded that Ireland is a "nice place" but that's because when we visit there I always have the use of a car and I know how to avoid a bad area...but if we were to move there it would mean her coming into contact with that sort of carry on and I don't want to expose her to the dregs of Irish society: the previous poster is right...a PC bleeding heart liberal agenda has led to a situation where society is paralysed and scumbags are not just belted over the head with a baton by a 6' tall brick sh!thouse culchie Garda, which is EXACTLY what should happen to them.

Drugs are heavily responsible for all this though, make no mistake. In Dublin a lot of people still don't realise how bad the heroin problem is (and with it all sorts of other legal and illegal drugs that heroin addicts take to "take the edge off" etc.). The sentence for ANY for of drug dealing (even by addicted users) should be 20 years in prison with NO POSSIBILITY of early release. Drugs alone are responsible for something like 70% of crime in Dublin: it would be money well spent to build a few large prisons in the middle of nowhere with limited visiting and start throwing drug dealers in them for a long time. It would take a while but eventually the message would sink in that getting involved in drugs WILL lead to a long spell in prison. At present there simply is NO STRATEGY to tackle the heroin problem in Ireland, and so it's getting worse.

Most people in Ireland are decent, hard-working etc. so there's no good reason that a minority can terrorise the rest of us.

You should watch this from 23:48 onwards.

AlekSmart

Well spotted Furet and some rather good stuff from 23:48 right enough.

I wonder if we`ll ever see a member of our judiciary emboldened enough to declare one way or the other on these topics ?

I doubt it.

Why,I wonder,are we advised by all and sundry that simplistic and somewhat basic responses are usually wrong and instead we need to spend a lot of time,energy and money understanding the mentality of the ill intentioned.....all very strange indeed.

HavingCrack

It would be easy enough to stamp out this sort of behaviour if Veolia and 'normal' LUAS users had the stomach for it. Is someone could organise a form of boycott of the Red Line Luas by non thuggish passengers I can guarantee you Veolia would start cleaning up the place overnight.

foggy_lad

I was on the green line today and what a massive difference there is between the two! There were few buggys as the mothers were at home with the children while fathers worked or shopped etc or the fathers babysit while mum shops s works. Much fewer single parent households and less younger kids on the Luas view were probably playing sports or doing some other paid for activity!

Nearly everyone carried a work I'd card pinned to them or around their necks but on red line the only work Id's are for Tesco or dunnes.