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Child Item

Seaplane Going Ahead!

?Cee?view

Great to see that the seaplane service from Galway Docks is going ahead and that the ecomentalists and An Taisce are being effectively told where to go.

It's apparently subject to the consent of Harbour Master Brian Sheridan, but he's a sensible positive man, centrally involved in facilitating the Ocean Race and the Powerboat Racing, as opposed to the other green-tinged fools who specialise in moaning and obstructing everything.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/13837-seaplane-flights-are-cleared-take

Seaplane flights are cleared for take off

July 9, 2010 - 7:30am
Scheduled flights from Galway to LImerick start in September
BY ENDA CUNNINGHAM

Scheduled seaplane flights from Galway Docks to Limerick and Aran are set to become a reality in September, after Galway City Council made “an historic decision” to grant planning permission for the service.

Galway City has become the second city in Europe to grant approval for a sea flight operation.Limerick will be just 22 minutes away, while Aran can be reached in 12 minutes with the new service from Harbour Flights Ireland.

CEO Emelyn Heaps told the Galway City Tribune: “This is absolutely huge for Galway. It’s an historic decision, because it’s the first ever approval for a sea flight operation in Ireland and the second in Europe.”

The operators first need to get formal approval from Harbour Master Brian Sheridan, and planning permission is expected from Limerick in a fortnight.

Initially, a 6-seater Cessna 206 will be used on the Aran route, until the new pier is completed at Kilronan, after which a ‘Single Otter’ 14-seater plane (or similar craft) will be used.

Read more in this week's Galway City Tribune

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PopeBuckfastXVI

Cool!

Storm 10

Thats great news.
What ever happened to the Helicopter flights to Aran that were to start in April by Executive Helicopters neber heard a thing about them since.

Wompa1

If watching Air Crash Investigation has made me an expert and which I believe it has! Sea Planes are costly to maintain due to rapid damaging effects of erosion. How much would they need to charge to make it a profitable venture I wonder?

?Cee?view

Cost is the big question.

I've signed up for their newsletter on their website, so maybe that will tell shortly.

They'd be viable very quickly if they can get the right to provide free travel to the over 65s - same way Aer Arann (from Inverin) and the boats do.

johnmolloy554

churchview wrote: »

They'd be viable very quickly if they can get the right to provide free travel to the over 65s - same way Aer Arann (from Inverin) and the boats do.

Pardon my ignorance, but how does giving the over 65s free travel on a 6 or 14 seater plane make it viable? Are the Aer Arann services that offer this, grant aided?

PopeBuckfastXVI

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but how does giving the over 65s free travel on a 6 or 14 seater plane make it viable? Are the Aer Arann services that offer this, grant aided?

I presume because that would allow them to charge us, the taxpayers, whatever the hell they liked?

Zzippy

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I presume because that would allow them to charge us, the taxpayers, whatever the hell they liked?

The over 65s are taxpayers too, and have been paying taxes for a lot longer than you or I have. They've earned the right to the free buspass. But its probably overkill having free OAP travel on a seaplane service alright...

?Cee?view

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I presume because that would allow them to charge us, the taxpayers, whatever the hell they liked?

Well not whatever the hell they like, but the State would pay.

I'd say it's a hangover from when CIE used to run the boats to Aran. Free travel for over 65s (same as rail and bus applied). Then Aer Arann had it (I think this still do). It'd be so easy for over 65s in Aran to go "out" to Galway, landing in the docks, that this would be a great success albeit funded by taxpayers.

I don't want to sound begrudging though. It's a great idea and I hope it does well, and I'm sure it will regardless of free travel.

ronnie3585

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

Are the Aer Arann services that offer this, grant aided?

Yes.

Both Aer Arann and Aer Arann Islands receive government funding for public service routes by way of PSO's. It's the only reason the companies are still operating in reality.

Delighted to see the Seaplane getting the green light. However, due to high running costs, lack of redundancy, and indeed a general lack of custom I can't see it lasting.

?Cee?view

I'd say weather will be their main problem.

Cessna 205s are fine planes but they're no way as capable for adverse conditions as the Britten Normans that fly out of Inverin (IMHO).

PopeBuckfastXVI

Zzippy wrote: »

The over 65s are taxpayers too, and have been paying taxes for a lot longer than you or I have. They've earned the right to the free buspass. But its probably overkill having free OAP travel on a seaplane service alright...

I hope to be one some day! My beef is not with free travel for pensioners, but with private companies that up the charges when the taxpayer is footing the bill.

Not really anything to do with this company though.

Seaplanes are cool.

Steyr

Extremely interesting, i wonder how they will cope with Ops on Galway Bay, its choppy even on the best of days ( have experience of it ) unless you get an absolutely flat day, any idea where they will be taking off from? Have they mentioned any sheltered area??

I presume they will Operate on the Dock side of Mutton Island ( Lighthouse ) using the breakwater as a shelter from waves?

?Cee?view

Steyr wrote: »

Extremely interesting, i wonder how they will cope with Ops on Galway Bay, its choppy even on the best of days ( have experience of it ) unless you get an absolutely flat day, any idea where they will be taking off from? Have they mentioned any sheltered area??

I presume they will Operate on the Dock side of Mutton Island ( Lighthouse ) using the breakwater as a shelter from waves?

Don't want to take it off topic, but can they just land and take off anywhere they want on water, (and I don't mean dock which seems to be subject to planning), or does it have to be approved by the Irish Aviation Authority?

ronnie3585

churchview wrote: »

Don't want to take it off topic, but can they just land and take off anywhere they want on water, (and I don't mean dock which seems to be subject to planning), or does it have to be approved by the Irish Aviation Authority?

As it is going to be a commercial operation they will need an AOC issued by the IAA.

?Cee?view

ronnie3585 wrote: »

As it is going to be a commercial operation they will need an AOC issued by the IAA.

I suppose what I'm getting at, rather than AOC approval, is that the runway is usually approved at an Aerodrome. But surely it can't be specified in this case as it's on water?

nerophis

Who'd want to fly from Galway to Limerick? Its certain to cost multiples of what driving/busing/training it would cost. You wouldn't be doing it for the scenery anyway

To fly over the sea you need to have twin engines AFAIK- something that's missing from a Cesna. So it mightn't get off the ground with that plane. The fact that this plane would be able to land on water might get them around this but the sea conditions between here and Aran would generally mean you'd be reaching for the life jacket as you landed in anything above a force three. In fact you'd probably have to be wearing a life jacket getting into the plane- implying a level of risk that I'm sure a lot of people might baulk at. Given the weather in Galway about three quarters of the days would be gone for operations to the Islands. I really can't see how this thing will be able to make enough money to keep ...afloat.

Hopefully there's no government investment in this.

?Cee?view

From their website

http://www.harbourflights.com/

"Initially, we will be operating a Cessna 172/18 and a Cessna 206. By year two we hope to add a Cessna 208 to the fleet and by the third year, a 19 seat De Havilland Twin Otter."

ronnie3585

nerophis wrote: »

You wouldn't be doing it for the scenery anyway

Yeah the scenery around the Burren, Cliffs of Moher and Shannon Estuary is mankey.

To fly over the sea you need to have twin engines AFAIK- something that's missing from a Cesna.

No. Single engine floats are perfectly legal.

I suppose what I'm getting at, rather than AOC approval, is that the runway is usually approved at an Aerodrome. But surely it can't be specified in this case as it's on water?

I would assume that the landing area will have to be licenced. Off the top off my head I'm almost sure one cannot operate a commercial undertaking from an unlicenced aerodrome.

Tabnabs

nerophis wrote: »

Who'd want to fly from Galway to Limerick? Its certain to cost multiples of what driving/busing/training it would cost.

This is the bottom line for me, seriously, who'd want to fly in a small plane at the mercy of the wind and the sea over such a sort distance of the one island?

The Maldives this ain't!

?Cee?view

Dyflin wrote: »

This is the bottom line for me, seriously, who'd want to fly in a small plane at the mercy of the wind and the sea over such a sort distance of the one island?

I'm sure someone said much the same when Aer Arann was founded in the early 70s, flying from Carnmore to Inis Mór. They're not doing too badly since.

Tabnabs

No, that's an island, until then boat was the only option. Galway to Limerick, would you take a small seaplane?

martyboy48

churchview wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/13837-seaplane-flights-are-cleared-take

Seaplane flights are cleared for take off

July 9, 2010 - 7:30am
Scheduled flights from Galway to LImerick start in September
BY ENDA CUNNINGHAM

Scheduled seaplane flights from Galway Docks to Limerick and Aran are set to become a reality in September, after Galway City Council made “an historic decision” to grant planning permission for the service.

Galway City has become the second city in Europe to grant approval for a sea flight operation.Limerick will be just 22 minutes away, while Aran can be reached in 12 minutes with the new service from Harbour Flights Ireland.

CEO Emelyn Heaps told the Galway City Tribune: “This is absolutely huge for Galway. It’s an historic decision, because it’s the first ever approval for a sea flight operation in Ireland and the second in Europe.”

The operators first need to get formal approval from Harbour Master Brian Sheridan, and planning permission is expected from Limerick in a fortnight.

Initially, a 6-seater Cessna 206 will be used on the Aran route, until the new pier is completed at Kilronan, after which a ‘Single Otter’ 14-seater plane (or similar craft) will be used.

Read more in this week's Galway City Tribune

A good time compared to the rail time of 2 hours I think... But as others have mentioned, I don't know if it will be a runner in the long run, time will tell. Like all new things, there may be some interest at the start but then who knows.. Might be ok for business people coming up for the races, or even the Limerick undesirables:eek::eek::D
I'd like to see it though, if even to sit by the shore and watch them come and go...

ScumLord

churchview wrote: »

I'm sure someone said much the same when Aer Arann was founded in the early 70s, flying from Carnmore to Inis Mór. They're not doing too badly since.

That's a once in a lifetime trip for most, those pilots are nuts!

The Aussies have a really cool plane for covering short distances, it flys just above the surface of the water and doesn't have big traditional wings. I seen it on some new technology show years ago, don't know if it took off or not.

Robbo

ScumLord wrote: »

That's a once in a lifetime trip for most, those pilots are nuts!

The Aussies have a really cool plane for covering short distances, it flys just above the surface of the water and doesn't have big traditional wings. I seen it on some new technology show years ago, don't know if it took off or not.

Please say it was Beyond 2000. I ****ing loved that show as a kid. And then That's Amazing with Carl Hooper...

mikemac

Galway to Foynes.
I believe Foynes has a great history for seaplanes.
Though the raillink to Limerick is gone so I assume they have a charter bus there to meet the plane.

I'd definitly take this route, even just once for the experience.

Wish them well in the future.

?Cee?view

Dyflin wrote: »

No, that's an island, until then boat was the only option. Galway to Limerick, would you take a small seaplane?

Well I would consider it as a very good option, particularly in the context of Galway.

If you're coming from anywhere to the West side of Galway, you'll face traffic gridlock because of the lack of a bypass, so any trip to Limerick (when the motorway is finished) will see half of the trip timewise getting to the East side of Galway.

The train.....well that's just a bad and expensive joke.

Bus - same issue as driving.

Plane from the docks - no need for anyone from East or West of the town to cross town to get to it. Flight time much shorter than driving to Limerick and obviously more faster than the Stephenson's Rocket type train service.

The big "if" is the transport options on the other end.

At the very least, I think we should be considering it, rather than slamming it before it literally takes off.

And also, let's face it, they may not even consider Irish people to be a market. Relatively few tourists will fill it easily.

Steyr

feelingstressed wrote: »

Galway to Foynes.
I believe Foynes has a great history for seaplanes.

Absolutely there is a Seaplane Museum there too, im just concerned about the choppy Galway Bay, Seaplane Ops are hazardous enough considering she is only a Cessna.

ScumLord

Robbo wrote: »

Please say it was Beyond 2000. I ****ing loved that show as a kid. And then That's Amazing with Carl Hooper...

I'm pretty sure it was some sort of Australian version.

Discodog

Are they planning to use a pure floatplane or an amphibian which would be much safer as it wouldn't be dependant on a sea landing in an emergency ?.

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

The over 65s are taxpayers too, and have been paying taxes for a lot longer than you or I have. They've earned the right to the free buspass. But its probably overkill having free OAP travel on a seaplane service alright...

Some of them are taxpayers, some aren't (because their official income is so low that they're under the tax-threshold).

Some of them paid taxes during their working lives. Some didn't. Of those who didn't, for some it was because they didn't do (paid) work, for others it was because they actively avoided taxes (either legally or otherwise).

Of those who did pay taxes, some paid them in Ireland (or the EEA), some didn't.

On average, older people are a lot wealthier than younger ones.

The only reason for universal free bus passes (or medical cards or whatever) is administrative efficiency. I've no problems with giving assistance to people who need it, but the current scheme does anything but.