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Incompetent Teachers

Yes Boss

I was watching Panorama last night and they were doing an expose on incompetent teachers in England. In essence, the percentage was quite high but like here in Ireland they were protected by their Unions!

It reminded me of a conversation i had with a friend of mine recently who told me he had to get grinds for a straight A student because the student knew more than the teacher. However, i was discussing this with two teacher friends of mine in a Waterford school who were able to name the teacher in question without too much information.

I was wondering how much of this is actually going on in Waterford in second and third level (without naming any names)!

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wobbles

i wouldnt go so far as to say incompetent, but i would say there are a lot of lazy teachers around, who dont want to put in the required work outside of class. I can only say this from lecturers in WIT though. I didnt go through the educational system in Waterford.

I will say that they are in the minority though, and teachers that do their job, will go above and beyond to help out if you ask them. But i do agree that unions are protecting staff who shouldnt be there. The embargo on hiring new staff is also not helping as if someone gets fired, they cant replace them.

Yes Boss

The program suggested that the difference in a good and a bad teacher was a full grade which could impact someone's prospects... The teachers who were found to be incompetent were moved on like the priests were to a new school to continue where they had left off...

MitchKoobski

The incompetent ones are always going to get found out sooner or later, and most of the time it's by the smart students. The thick lads or 'messers' will usually just think "Ah he/she has no clue, this is great, we dont have to do anything". Happened in my secondary school for a while until a couple of the better students confronted the principal about it and the teacher was replaced after christmas.
Easiest way to spot them is when they do nothing but give handouts and make you do questions in class instead of actual theory. Handouts are helpful n all but explain it in brief and then I'll read further, don't just hand it to me and say "Here read this".

ziedth

I had a history "teacher" in school who no word of a lie made us just read from the textbook every class. That's it, no discussion or anything.

I still got an A1 but it was because I had a huge interest in history as a young fella anyway. I think most of the lads in the class bombed out.

me_right_one

Its amazing the talent some teachers have though. I dont really like teachers TBH, I have a few gripes with some, but I had one history teacher in particular, and every single person in the class got an A in the JC. Even this one messer, it was the only A he ever got. When it comes to ability to teach, some people have it, some people dont. I cant understand why they dont make a "method of instruction" course module mandatory in teacher training college. Any teachers views?

tom thum

i htink that some teachers are like zombies cos all they have ever known is a classroom situation, so , in a way they are institutionalised until they retire. also, we had some brutal teachers. but one tht sticks out for me is my old english teacher. i waas doing honours english for the leaving cert and all the way she said i was flying and to keep it going, so, i did. but i still FAILED it. i didnt even pass it. how wrong was she!!!!!

slainte1

me_right_one wrote: »

Its amazing the talent some teachers have though. I dont really like teachers TBH, I have a few gripes with some, but I had one history teacher in particular, and every single person in the class got an A in the JC. Even this one messer, it was the only A he ever got. When it comes to ability to teach, some people have it, some people dont. I cant understand why they dont make a "method of instruction" course module mandatory in teacher training college. Any teachers views?

Teacher training colleges in the Rep of Ireland are called Colleges of Education.
Have you any idea what the curriculum of these colleges consists of ?

slainte1

tom thum wrote: »

i htink that some teachers are like zombies cos all they have ever known is a classroom situation, so , in a way they are institutionalised until they retire. also, we had some brutal teachers. but one tht sticks out for me is my old english teacher. i waas doing honours english for the leaving cert and all the way she said i was flying and to keep it going, so, i did. but i still FAILED it. i didnt even pass it. how wrong was she!!!!!

Perhaps Ordinary Level English would have been more realistic in your case.

PTH2009

its hard for teachers in schools such as De la salle College and The Mercy because they are big schools and a lot of students would be unoticed in a way.

I went to De La Salle and left with an ok leaving cert. had to do Foundation maths and Irish but got an A1 in Ordinary History. Thank god for places like CTI and Fas which are there for students who didnt particly do that well in School but didnt do too bad if u get me.

mozattack

I say it now, teachers are an absolute disgrace.

I know a PE teacher in a large boys school who earns €75k per annum....yes €1,970 per week for the 36 weeks he 'works'. Nevermind the sick pay, pension etc that he has.

I know another teacher who earns €60k for teaching home economics (wow!) while, for example, accountants (qualifed) working near me earn around €35k to €40k with no benefits...

That same person has 3 kids and had them in autumn because they know then that when the (fully paid) maturnity leave is over, they have the summer off. In the space of 5 years she worked around 1.5 to 2 yrs costing the taxpayer €250k at least.

Its a joke... they should be shot.

ziedth

I did foundation Irish too, I just didn't undestand a word I mean not a single bloody word of it and I think I still managed to get like a D2 or something.

It's idiot proof. All just ticking boxes and stuff,

maybe straying a little off topic but I always feel really bad for Maths teachers because I think the Ordinary level is to varied in that I got an A2 which I worked really hard for but wasn't nearly food enough for the higher level but there were lads in the same class who were seriously struggling with the ordinary level as there always is.

slainte1

mozattack wrote: »

I say it now, teachers are an absolute disgrace.

I know a PE teacher in a large boys school who earns €75k per annum....yes €1,970 per week for the 36 weeks he 'works'. Nevermind the sick pay, pension etc that he has.

I know another teacher who earns €60k for teaching home economics (wow!) while, for example, accountants (qualifed) working near me earn around €35k to €40k with no benefits...

That same person has 3 kids and had them in autumn because they know then that when the (fully paid) maturnity leave is over, they have the summer off. In the space of 5 years she worked around 1.5 to 2 yrs costing the taxpayer €250k at least.

Its a joke... they should be shot.

How refreshing it was to read that well-argued critique of our education system. Just as a matter of interest, do you have any idea how many Leaving Cert points one needs for entry to PE college ?

Benimar

mozattack wrote: »

I say it now, teachers are an absolute disgrace.

I know a PE teacher in a large boys school who earns €75k per annum....yes €1,970 per week for the 36 weeks he 'works'. Nevermind the sick pay, pension etc that he has.

I know another teacher who earns €60k for teaching home economics (wow!) while, for example, accountants (qualifed) working near me earn around €35k to €40k with no benefits...

That same person has 3 kids and had them in autumn because they know then that when the (fully paid) maturnity leave is over, they have the summer off. In the space of 5 years she worked around 1.5 to 2 yrs costing the taxpayer €250k at least.

Its a joke... they should be shot.

How dare she claim the right of every working woman in Ireland!

dayshah

ziedth wrote: »

I had a history "teacher" in school who no word of a lie made us just read from the textbook every class. That's it, no discussion or anything.

I still got an A1 but it was because I had a huge interest in history as a young fella anyway. I think most of the lads in the class bombed out.

Secondary school is no place for creative thought. Now type that out 500 times.

Similar experience. Ended up dropping it as a subject on account of this, but go through plenty of history books in my own time.

Edit: in fairness most of my teachers were good and permitted independent thought if it was well founded.

me_right_one

slainte1 wrote: »

Teacher training colleges in the Rep of Ireland are called Colleges of Education.
Have you any idea what the curriculum of these colleges consists of ?

Er, thanks for that random bit of information!?!?!? I'm afraid I cant help you with finding out whats on the curriculum, but one thing I know for sure is that MOI wasn't on it when I last checked a year or two ago. One would imagine it should be the bread and butter of these Colleges of Education.

slainte1

me_right_one wrote: »

Er, thanks for that random bit of information!?!?!? I'm afraid I cant help you with finding out whats on the curriculum, but one thing I know for sure is that MOI wasn't on it when I last checked a year or two ago. One would imagine it should be the bread and butter of these Colleges of Education.

And indeed it is !

me_right_one

slainte1 wrote: »

And indeed it is !

When did it come in?

alabandical

mozattack wrote: »

I say it now, teachers are an absolute disgrace.

I know a PE teacher in a large boys school who earns €75k per annum....yes €1,970 per week for the 36 weeks he 'works'. Nevermind the sick pay, pension etc that he has.

I know another teacher who earns €60k for teaching home economics (wow!) while, for example, accountants (qualifed) working near me earn around €35k to €40k with no benefits...

That same person has 3 kids and had them in autumn because they know then that when the (fully paid) maturnity leave is over, they have the summer off. In the space of 5 years she worked around 1.5 to 2 yrs costing the taxpayer €250k at least.

Its a joke... they should be shot.

In fairness mozattack, your argument is a bit ridiculous.

You're comparing teachers at the top of a pay scale with accountants who are probably at the start of their career.

And what qualifies as 'work' anyway? Any teacher worth their salt puts in a lot more hours than they are paid for.

Yes Boss

Benimar wrote: »

How dare she claim the right of every working woman in Ireland!

I don't think the point is about the teacher claiming 'the right of every working women in Ireland' but the fact that she has strategically had 3 children to ensure that she did not have to work for 3 full years. Now i feel that is milking the system!

jmcc

slainte1 wrote: »

Teacher training colleges in the Rep of Ireland are called Colleges of Education.
Have you any idea what the curriculum of these colleges consists of ?

Reading the answers to the problems in the textbooks?

Regards...jmcc

#15

jmcc wrote: »

Reading the answers to the problems in the textbooks?

Regards...jmcc

Wrong.

#15

me_right_one wrote: »

When did it come in?

More than a year or two ago anyway.

Maybe you should have looked for the word 'methodologies' in the course information.

slainte1

jmcc wrote: »

Reading the answers to the problems in the textbooks?

Regards...jmcc

Thank you for your reply. I think you have demonstrated quite clearly how little you know about what happens in our Colleges of Education. And of course, it must be said, why would you know ?
But given the fact that you know so little perhaps you are not ideally placed to make judgements.

Benimar

Yes Boss wrote: »

I don't think the point is about the teacher claiming 'the right of every working women in Ireland' but the fact that she has strategically had 3 children to ensure that she did not have to work for 3 full years. Now i feel that is milking the system!

I can think of easier ways to get out of work! (She wouldn't have gotten 3 years PAID anyway, it would have been around 2)

To be fair she is milking the system a bit, but that's the systems fault. A lot of women would probably do it if they could.

It's also hard to know without knowing the woman if she is just lazy or wanted to spend as much time as possible with her kids in their formative years.

jmcc

slainte1 wrote: »

Thank you for your reply. I think you have demonstrated quite clearly how little you know about what happens in our Colleges of Education.

So enlighten us then.

Regards...jmcc

MitchKoobski

Benimar wrote: »

I can think of easier ways to get out of work! (She wouldn't have gotten 3 years PAID anyway, it would have been around 2)

To be fair she is milking the system a bit, but that's the systems fault. A lot of women would probably do it if they could.

It's also hard to know without knowing the woman if she is just lazy or wanted to spend as much time as possible with her kids in their formative years.

Naw I had a teacher exactly like that. Completely lazy in 1st and 2nd year. From 3rd year, through transition year and to the end of 6th year I think I saw her for a total of 5 months. Every other time she was either heavily pregnant or on maternity leave.

jmcc

#15 wrote: »

Wrong.

Ah yes! I forgot the drinking, the social affairs and the double lobotomies aspects.

Regards...jmcc

#15

jmcc wrote: »

Ah yes! I forgot the drinking, the social affairs and the double lobotomies aspects.

Regards...jmcc

Wrong again.

Bit of a trend here.

jmcc

#15 wrote: »

Wrong again.

So will you enlighten us as to what goes on there?

Bit of a trend here.

I tend to be a bit cynical when it comes to Irish teachers and their opinions of their intellect and expertise. Some are relatively smart but others are not.

Regards...jmcc

slainte1

jmcc wrote: »

So enlighten us then.

Regards...jmcc

I'm usually up to a challenge but I'm going to pass at attempting to enlighten you jmcc.
You complained in your post that the Colleges of Education did not teach a Method of Instruction "the last time you looked."
This, of course, is complete nonsense, as anyone who has ever attended, or lectured in, any of our Colleges of Education will quickly tell you.
To return to the main thread if I may. Yes of course there are teachers who are lazy and incompetent. They are significantly outnumbered by the teachers who are dedicated and inspirational.
The knee jerk reaction is to crib about long holidays and pay. I say to those people if it's so attractive and the pay is so good and the hours so short why don't they do it ? Very high points are required to gain entry to a College of Education. I have never met a student teacher who entered the profession to become rich.
Teaching is a difficult profession, whether it's at primary, secondary or tertiary level. Nobody's interests are served by bouts of teacher bashing