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FAS Being Investigated AGAIN

dfbemt

From todays Irish Examiner

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/67m-fas-college-took-in-just-12-trainees-107114.html#ixzz0Yhrj5tZF

Some revealing extracts from this story

JUST 12 trainees have completed courses at a €6.7m Fás college which opened at the start of the year, prompting the Dáil’s Public Accounts watchdog (PAC) to launch an investigation.

The centre, which is based on 33 acres a few miles outside Tullamore in Co Offaly, has no access to public transport. The moratorium on public sector hiring means there is only one lecturer working in the facility.

Mr Allen said the PAC would probe not just the Mount Lucas facility but also "other Fás investments in this county".

So more bad news for FAS and Mr Cowen in Offaly.

Bring back ANCO

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bamboozle

bamboozle wrote: »

yet more revelations about FAS, once again concerning Greg Craig who was the guy who was suspended on full pay pending a Garda investigation (since returning from suspension he received a promotion to become head of health and safety at Fas)

from yesterday's sunday times

FAs has spent more than 400,000 renting a warehouse from the former tax partner of a consultancy firm that has won a series of contracts from the state-training agency. The building has lain empty or been used for storage since 2000. The unit at Tolka Vally Business park in FInglas, north Dublin is being rented from Terry Oliver, formerly of OSK an accountancy and business consultancy. Internal Audits concluded that Greg Craig the former head of Corporate Affairs at Fas, had a conflict of interest in awarding contracts to OSK because of his close personal relationship with Oliver….it appears nobody has ever been trained there and instead it has been used for storage or left empty. The rent is more than €40,000 per annum.

looks like Craig is finally having his contract at fas terminated

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0909/1224303760014.html

SkepticOne

One area of Fas's "functionality" that I think could be shut down without any detriment to the state is that of rubber stamping unpaid work experience positions so that those doing them don't get cut off state benefits.

If you read this thread here, you can see that people are perfectly capable of finding their own unpaid internships. These are probably better than the ones Fas approves (which seem to be shelf stacking type jobs), yet if you find one under your own initiative you will be cut off.

Fas's only role in this seems to be to get in the way of people helping themselves at least in this respect.

The sad thing is that a good training agency is desperately needed in this country considering the numbers of people being laid off in the construction industry. As well as the personal tragedy of being jobless (which is the main aspect of this), the country is going to need the taxes of people doing real jobs if we're going to pay back some of the debts the Government has built up helping their cronies.

thebman

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I worked in IT for 20 years, jobs including help desk manager, Network engineer, IT manager, It Consultant, database designer and administrator. I spent years writing databases for companies.

I got an offer of three courses

Introduction to computers

PC maintenance & servicing

IT & Reception skills

Just shows how much use they are. I used to teach the training courses for Access and SQL for Compaq.

The letter said that these courses would suit me!!!!!

When I came out of college, the local fas office told me to move to Dublin and that there were no IT opportunities in the midlands which wasn't wrong but if I don't have a job, I can't move to Dublin because you know money!!

I was already applying for jobs in Dublin and eventually got one but that is all I was told out of college when I went to the FAS office.

Useless organisation from what I can see. All the courses at the moment seem to be mocked by potential employers of people coming from the courses.

RichardAnd

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I worked in IT for 20 years, jobs including help desk manager, Network engineer, IT manager, It Consultant, database designer and administrator. I spent years writing databases for companies.

I got an offer of three courses

Introduction to computers

PC maintenance & servicing

IT & Reception skills

Just shows how much use they are. I used to teach the training courses for Access and SQL for Compaq.

The letter said that these courses would suit me!!!!!

Sounds like FAS allright, you'd also be "learning" from a guy who probably would know less about computers than a carlow IT drop out (bit of an exaggeration).

The problem is that the person suggesting those courses to you probably has no idea what a database administrator actually does other than it has something to do with computers. So he/she simply picked a few IT courses and sent them off to you. Mention the word Oracle and she's probably think you were talking about the Matrix

IrishTonyO

I worked in IT for 20 years, jobs including help desk manager, Network engineer, IT manager, It Consultant, database designer and administrator. I spent years writing databases for companies.

I got an offer of three courses

Introduction to computers
PC maintenance & servicing
IT & Reception skills

Just shows how much use they are. I used to teach the training courses for Access and SQL for Compaq.

The letter said that these courses would suit me!!!!!

thebman

RichardAnd wrote: »

I came out of college last year with an honours degree in computer science and over a year of experience in IT which was on top of a further 3 years in other areas. If I found it very hard to get a job, what hope would someone with a 6 month FAS course in turning a computer on have?

Many companies looking for support people don't want people with high qualifications because they will move on when a better opportunity arises and they are left with high staff turn over.

This could fix this as these people will be tech support for the long haul.

That is their advantage, they aren't trying to become programmers/system administration people although they could so via night classes after they get a support job if they wanted to I guess.

But employers would see them as more likely to stay on I imagine and for first level support, that is something that isn't common/wasn't common during the boom when they were hiring Software graduates who didn't want to be there.

RichardAnd

thebman wrote: »

Given every other non-high skilled job in the country is being created in Tech-Support at the moment, it seems there could be something in that I can't work out that maybe FAS could train people in ... ...

Of course the downside of that is Tech Support is where many IT graduates get their start. But if someone needs someone with actual technology skills, a FAS graduate won't be much use. They can be trained to do the more basic first level support however like have you tried turning it off and on or go to this page and enter you email address and you'll receive your password type support.

I came out of college last year with an honours degree in computer science and over a year of experience in IT which was on top of a further 3 years in other areas. If I found it very hard to get a job, what hope would someone with a 6 month FAS course in turning a computer on have?

thebman

Given every other non-high skilled job in the country is being created in Tech-Support at the moment, it seems there could be something in that I can't work out that maybe FAS could train people in ... ...

Of course the downside of that is Tech Support is where many IT graduates get their start. But if someone needs someone with actual technology skills, a FAS graduate won't be much use. They can be trained to do the more basic first level support however like have you tried turning it off and on or go to this page and enter you email address and you'll receive your password type support.

dan_d

I do agree anything is better than standing around drawing the dole. But from my perspective, what good are they? I'll go and try out anything, but I don't see the point in them being involved in what I'm getting up to in terms of courses, etc.

I'm not going to try and get around them, because there's just no point.

Fundamentally, I hate stupidity and I'm coming from a background in work and overall training where I cut out the middle man, go straight to the source and no frills are required.

Fás (to me) are a frill (!). They have their place and the theory is sound, but I don't see why there is any need to make it mandatory to involve them in the case of somebody like me.Now, multiply me by, what, 100,000 (min) on the dole (I'm talking about people with certain qualifications and a level of experience) and the amount of paperwork that's involved for Fás and the amount of money wasted by the taxpayer as a result...I just have to wonder why.

Anyway, I'm completely derailing the thread here, so I'll go away now!!!:D

RichardAnd

dan_d wrote: »

As do I.

I'm not sure of the ins and outs of the social welfare system as yet, but I get the impression I have to sign in and out with FAS and for some reason, involve them in my job search.

Can I ask why? I put myself through college, I have paid for 2 language courses in a language institute in the last few years (and was hoping to do another soon), I pay for music lessons for myself and I pay for my own hobbies. When I find something I'm interested in, I go and do a proper course in it.

Not to be completely snotty about the whole thing, but what the hell can FAS do for me? To my eyes they have nothing to offer me - I'm not interested in anything they have to offer, and if I want to do something educational I will (and I am) considering a Masters (obviously working out how to get a job first). Why do I have to involve FAS in any of this?
I can see their benefits to upskill certain people - I suppose those who are labelled as unskilled workers. But to someone like me, who has an education and who is interested in continuing education through channels of my choice, why on earth do I need to involve another load of idiots, and more bureaucracy in the already complicated social welfare system?????

As far as I can see, we should torpedo FAS and open a new agency that have a very specific mandate, and offer more sustainable courses, and who do not have a finger in every pie there is when it comes to Gov agencies.

Good question and the answer is probably that people who don't play by the system are loathed in this country. My advice is not to be that person, you'll never beat the system that's in place so just work with it in a way that causes you the least amount of hassle.

You are right that FAS should go the way of the Land Commission (who remember these guys

) and be wound down but that's not going to happen. No matter how bad FAS courses are they are still better than drawing the dole because you are at least learning something. I'd rather go to FAS and sign up for a web design course that will teach me nothing and be "taught" by a guy who knows less than me than stand in a dole queue for a hand out.

In an ideal world, FAS courses would actually teach you something but this is Ireland. There's little more I need to say than that

dan_d

As do I.

I'm not sure of the ins and outs of the social welfare system as yet, but I get the impression I have to sign in and out with FAS and for some reason, involve them in my job search.

Can I ask why? I put myself through college, I have paid for 2 language courses in a language institute in the last few years (and was hoping to do another soon), I pay for music lessons for myself and I pay for my own hobbies. When I find something I'm interested in, I go and do a proper course in it.

Not to be completely snotty about the whole thing, but what the hell can FAS do for me? To my eyes they have nothing to offer me - I'm not interested in anything they have to offer, and if I want to do something educational I will (and I am) considering a Masters (obviously working out how to get a job first). Why do I have to involve FAS in any of this?
I can see their benefits to upskill certain people - I suppose those who are labelled as unskilled workers. But to someone like me, who has an education and who is interested in continuing education through channels of my choice, why on earth do I need to involve another load of idiots, and more bureaucracy in the already complicated social welfare system?????

As far as I can see, we should torpedo FAS and open a new agency that have a very specific mandate, and offer more sustainable courses, and who do not have a finger in every pie there is when it comes to Gov agencies.

RichardAnd

I question what FAS contributes to job seekers. Recently, a friend of mine did a 6 month course that was supposed to teach him to program using a programming language called Java. The aim of the course was "to prepare candidates for an exciting new career as a java programmer as part of Ireland's growing smart economy". I have come to loath the words "exciting new".

Anyway, what he learned in 6 months with them, he could have taught himself in 6 weeks by going onto google and typing "java tutorial". Not only that but 6 months in a FAS course is next to useless when it comes to getting a job.

paddyland

Does nobody see the common thread through all these scandals? Fianna Fáil, Fianna Fáil, Fianna Fáil! These are creations of Fianna Fáil, stuffed with Fianna Fáil people, and run to purely political agendas by Fianna Fáil.

Get them out, their party, their farcical government, their quangoes, their political appointees, anything and everything to do with Fianna Fáil, and perhaps the field can be ploughed and start afresh.

dan_d

Get rid of it.
Doesn't get much more simple than that.

bamboozle

yet more revelations about FAS, once again concerning Greg Craig who was the guy who was suspended on full pay pending a Garda investigation (since returning from suspension he received a promotion to become head of health and safety at Fas)

from yesterday's sunday times

FAs has spent more than 400,000 renting a warehouse from the former tax partner of a consultancy firm that has won a series of contracts from the state-training agency. The building has lain empty or been used for storage since 2000. The unit at Tolka Vally Business park in FInglas, north Dublin is being rented from Terry Oliver, formerly of OSK an accountancy and business consultancy. Internal Audits concluded that Greg Craig the former head of Corporate Affairs at Fas, had a conflict of interest in awarding contracts to OSK because of his close personal relationship with Oliver….it appears nobody has ever been trained there and instead it has been used for storage or left empty. The rent is more than €40,000 per annum.

Spiritoftheseventies

FÁs Spent €2,255 In Sanctioned Hospitality

ROBBIE AT CROKE PARK: THE SECRETARY general of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Sean Gorman, was among those who attended a Robbie Williams concert in Croke Park in 2006, as a guest of the national training authority, Fás.

The authority spent €2,255 on hospitality at the concert, which was one of a number attended by guests invited by Fás during the 2006 to 2008 period. The authority spent €35,000 on concerts and match outings in 2002-2008, with all expenditure sanctioned by the former Fás director general, Rody Molloy.

An invitation list for the Robbie Williams concert was read out at yesterday’s meeting of the Dáil Public Accounts Committee. The invitees were each offered two tickets, while Mr Molloy got six.

The invitees were: Mr Molloy; former assistant director general (ADG), Gerry Pyke; Fás director of corporate affairs, Greg Craig; former ADG Christy Cooney; ADG Oliver Egan; Labour Relations Commission (LRC) chief executive, Kieran Mulvey; LRC deputy director, Tom Pomphrett; Business Plus magazine journalist and media and marketing columnist with The Irish Times , Siobhan O’Connell; Ark Life executive, Billy Finn; Irish Independent journalist, John Walshe; Mr Gorman; former principal officer with Mr Gorman’s department, Padraig Cullinane; and Anne Loughran.

Fás finance director Con Shanahan told the committee it was not known who attended the concert. A spokeswoman for Mr Gorman, a former director of Fás, later confirmed he had attended with a colleague.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0219/1224264800058.html

More revelations from FAS which were reported today on TV3. Whats on the Gourmet menu indeed!

Jumpy

glynn888 wrote: »

HI EVERYBODY MY NAME IS WAYNE ITS NOT TRUE WHAT THEY SAY BOUT FAS
BEFORE I WENT N DONE ME FAS COORSE I CUDDNT EVAN SPPELL ENGANEER NOW AFFTER UNLY DOIN A 6 MUNTH FAS COOSE I ARE 1.
MI INTRUUCTER IN DE FAS COLLOGE TOLDED ME TAT I CUD EVAN HAV ASTERNOOT POTENSHAL .
BET I CUD GET LODS MORE MULA DOIN TAT .

Its spelled TROO.

djk1000

I did a 6 month course in accounts and payroll through FAS, it was useless, just the basics, not near enough to be useful in a job, spent most of our time scratching. Every third door I passed in the training centre had manager this or manager that on it. I will say though that the instructor we had did his best with what he had, wasn't even able to requisition a new flip chart because of cutbacks.

I have a friend that works as a CAD technician, he has about 10 years experience and he lost his job, can't find another one anywhere. FAS was knocking out another class of 15 CAD technicians while I was there

There has to be a better way, put half the FAS budget into education grants and the other half back to the exchequer, or something along those lines.

RealityCheck

Don't suppose Peter McLoone is involved :rolleyes:.

MrEko

glynn888 wrote: »

HI EVERYBODY MY NAME IS WAYNE ITS NOT TRUE WHAT THEY SAY BOUT FAS
BEFORE I WENT N DONE ME FAS COORSE I CUDDNT EVAN SPPELL ENGANEER NOW AFFTER UNLY DOIN A 6 MUNTH FAS COOSE I ARE 1.
MI INTRUUCTER IN DE FAS COLLOGE TOLDED ME TAT I CUD EVAN HAV ASTERNOOT POTENSHAL .
BET I CUD GET LODS MORE MULA DOIN TAT .

You're on a roll tonight my boy.

On topic, FAS needs to be changed badly. Just let me get my appreticeship done and get out of this soggy hell hole first.

glynn888

HI EVERYBODY MY NAME IS WAYNE ITS NOT TRUE WHAT THEY SAY BOUT FAS
BEFORE I WENT N DONE ME FAS COORSE I CUDDNT EVAN SPPELL ENGANEER NOW AFFTER UNLY DOIN A 6 MUNTH FAS COOSE I ARE 1.
MI INTRUUCTER IN DE FAS COLLOGE TOLDED ME TAT I CUD EVAN HAV ASTERNOOT POTENSHAL .
BET I CUD GET LODS MORE MULA DOIN TAT .

bamboozle

is this training college in Tullamore a seperate building to the one that FAS purchased for decentralisation?

for those who werent aware, Roddy Molloy is from this neck of the woods

dfbemt

Amazes me that FAS still focus heavily on construction related courses. The 12 students who have completed courses in this centre undertook construction courses. When will they cop on, construction is on life support via capital projects which will reduce considerably next year.

The name FAS carries so much baggage that it needs to be completely scrapped and restarted with a new focus that is not primarily construction led.

Dannyboy83

Just shut it down.
€1 billion worth of it.

That money could be far more wisely used elsewhere.

The government are cutting capital spend by €1 billion in this budget.

€0.5 billion should be diverted back into the capital spend, and the other half should be used for employment subsidies.

marco_polo

Is it time to ditch FAS now? Or at least completely gut it and start over again.